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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    gotta make time my friend! most of my practice these days is one handed while mowing the lawn, showering, driving, brushing my teeth etc
    I was told that one handed practice would make me go blind.
    "I'm opposed to picketing, but I don't know to show it." --Mitch Hedberg

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    bebop language study group ?-example-jpg

    So, if I understood correctly, that's a "5" phrase on the Cmaj?

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by grekko View Post
    bebop language study group ?-example-jpg

    So, if I understood correctly, that's a "5" phrase on the Cmaj?

    Yep.

    (To be clear, bar 2 is the FIVE PHRASE)
    Last edited by A. Kingstone; 09-29-2016 at 04:09 PM.

  5. #54

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    Thanks!

    The Barry Harris videos on YT are really helpful. We should have a thread about them.
    Last edited by grekko; 09-29-2016 at 04:29 PM.

  6. #55

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    mark or anyone else still interested in a video, or is it beating a dead horse at this point? I think i'll have a little time this weekend
    White belt
    My Youtube

  7. #56

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    Would someone define what 5 ,4 etc are in words? I can hear how the 'licks' work, but the numbers have no meaning to me.


    m alexander

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    mark or anyone else still interested in a video, or is it beating a dead horse at this point? I think i'll have a little time this weekend
    Yes, I remain interested. I'm sure others do as well. We want more Joe, Joe! ;o)
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  9. #58

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    joe2758, definitely interested!
    "Ahhh - those Jazz guys are just makin' that stuff up!" - Homer Simpson

    "Anyone who understands Jazz knows that you can't understand it. It's too complicated. That's what's so simple about it." - Yogi Berra

  10. #59

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    right on guys. it makes me glad to share stuff I wish I knew about earlier
    Last edited by joe2758; 10-01-2016 at 02:06 PM.
    White belt
    My Youtube

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    right on guys. it makea me glad to share stuff I wish I knew about earlier
    Thanks, Joe.
    That "four" phrase appears in "Do Nothin' Til You Hear From Me." (I happen to be learning that tune.)
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  12. #61

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    cool, mark! you're absolutely right. also drives home my point of starting it on the up-beat
    White belt
    My Youtube

  13. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by joe2758 View Post
    right on guys. it makes me glad to share stuff I wish I knew about earlier
    That's Awesome bro , thanks a lot the 4 phrase i do that all the time !
    So what's the whole point of this system ! some kinda framework to generate unique phrases ?
    Also where can i study barry harris concepts , is there a book ? or video to buy ?
    Last edited by mooncef; 10-01-2016 at 08:13 PM.

  14. #63

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    I'd say these phrases are just a very tiny piece of a larger system. There are two separate sets of 4 dvds each that come with books. they are pricey at $100 for each set... but i have gotten my money's worth no doubt. If you sign up for a month at jazzschoolonline.com, you get videos of pianist howard reese going over a huge chunk of the improvisation system, and videos of our very own Alan Kingstone going over most of the material in his Barry Harris Harmonic Method for Guitar book. I think it's $50 for a month, but if you take good notes you'll have enough material to work on for years.
    White belt
    My Youtube

  15. #64

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    I think you need to go back further to what set the table for bebop.

    Charlie Christian, Pres and Roy Eldridge are easier to process because they used pretty simple, often riff-based figures and very melodic solo materials based on changes that are easier to hear.

    In the same way Hawk set the table for Sonny Rollins and Trane Lester did it for Bird. His melodic ideas defied the chords and 'rubbed against' them. He could play a major 7th on the 5th bar of a blues and you bought it.

    The beautiful thing about these earlier masters is they are so much easier to 'get'. You can analyze their solos w/o silly and cumbersome $5 words like 'mixolydian', etc. Pres let his ear, melodic sense and swing propulsion guide him. Take off some of HIS shit. You won't regret it.

    That's my advice: you have to go further back to move ahead. Always go to the source...

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by fasstrack View Post
    I think you need to go back further to what set the table for bebop.

    Charlie Christian, Pres and Roy Eldridge are easier to process because they used pretty simple, often riff-based figures and very melodic solo materials based on changes that are easier to hear.

    In the same way Hawk set the table for Sonny Rollins and Trane Lester did it for Bird. His melodic ideas defied the chords and 'rubbed against' them. He could play a major 7th on the 5th bar of a blues and you bought it.

    The beautiful thing about these earlier masters is they are so much easier to 'get'. You can analyze their solos w/o silly and cumbersome $5 words like 'mixolydian', etc. Pres let his ear, melodic sense and swing propulsion guide him. Take off some of HIS shit. You won't regret it.

    That's my advice: you have to go further back to move ahead. Always go to the source...
    I agree. Bop makes a lot more sense if you have checked out a bit of swing, in all sorts of ways.

    IMO every jazz musician should learn Prez's Lady be Good - even if only to sing it all the way through. It's the classic solo to learn, right to this day.

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I agree. Bop makes a lot more sense if you have checked out a bit of swing, in all sorts of ways.

    IMO every jazz musician should learn Prez's Lady be Good - even if only to sing it all the way through. It's the classic solo to learn, right to this day.
    Bird used to warm up playing that, and other Lester solos, so...

  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I agree. Bop makes a lot more sense if you have checked out a bit of swing, in all sorts of ways.

    IMO every jazz musician should learn Prez's Lady be Good - even if only to sing it all the way through. It's the classic solo to learn, right to this day.
    Here's our very own Jordan doing it!


  19. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I agree. Bop makes a lot more sense if you have checked out a bit of swing, in all sorts of ways.

    IMO every jazz musician should learn Prez's Lady be Good - even if only to sing it all the way through. It's the classic solo to learn, right to this day.
    Ok gonna transcribe this solo today =)


    I'd say these phrases are just a very tiny piece of a larger system. There are two separate sets of 4 dvds each that come with books. they are pricey at $100 for each set... but i have gotten my money's worth no doubt. If you sign up for a month at jazzschoolonline.com, you get videos of pianist howard reese going over a huge chunk of the improvisation system, and videos of our very own Alan Kingstone going over most of the material in his Barry Harris Harmonic Method for Guitar book. I think it's $50 for a month, but if you take good notes you'll have enough material to work on for years.
    Man i got to get my hands on those workshops ! tell me is pasquale grasso new lesson treating this system ?

  20. #69

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    i think i have my next project, thanks guys!
    White belt
    My Youtube

  21. #70

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    yeah almost all of what pasquale grasso teaches in the video lessons is barry harris stuff; it's what first got me into it a few months ago
    White belt
    My Youtube

  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop View Post
    Here's our very own Jordan doing it!

    Brother Jordan is an extraordinary talent and thinker, so it doesn't surprise me at all he's done this HW.

    And dig those facial expressions! If that ain't love...

    Jordan, get better quick. We all want to hear what's on your capacious mind and in your soul...

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by mooncef View Post
    That's Awesome bro , thanks a lot the 4 phrase i do that all the time !
    ?
    Classic enclosure: targeting the third by scale step from above, double chromatic from below . That kind of stuff works on any Chord tone. I.e., bebop 101
    Navdeep Singh.

  24. #73

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    Thanks for the Barry Harris 5-4-3-2! I don't know where that came from (I have Alan Kingston book and saw no mention of it in there), but those five little phrases are pure magic.

    I'm new to jazz, but I am an insomniac with some time to kill. I've done the Sheryl Bayley 50 bebop licks you must know, Fareed Haque's Bebob Survival Guide, Alan's Harmonic Method, Ed Byrne's Linear Jazz, etc. They all talk about chromatic enclosures and approach notes to target tones, but it never has made much musical sense. In a vacuum it doesn't sound like anything I want to play or anyone wants to hear.

    A quick YT of Barry teaching his four licks and suddenly it all sounds very musical and, for lack of a better word, "jazzy". I can hear him play it and sing it and I suddenly understand how its used.

    So, thank you JGF community. I plan on shedding this for a while!

  25. #74

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    Hi, I am a complete beginner bit this thread is something of a revelation for me. I want to have a go at Lady be Good. Does anyone have a link to the tab for it, many thanks, Simon

  26. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ View Post
    Classic enclosure: targeting the third by scale step from above, double chromatic from below . That kind of stuff works on any Chord tone. I.e., bebop 101
    Eh?

    Simple English, sil vous plais, kind sir...

  27. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    I've done the Sheryl Bayley 50 bebop licks you must know.
    You know Sheryl (BailEY, BTW) is my friend and neighbor, a very sweet gal and hell of a guitar player, but I'm not sure I like that title so much. It sort of sounds like 'in so-and-so steps you will master such-and-such'. No such animal.Probably she didn't quite mean it that way.

    Knowing Sheryl and the quality of her playing and teaching I know the content is worthwhile, but that title? I just don't know...
    Last edited by fasstrack; 10-02-2016 at 04:10 PM.

  28. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    I agree. Bop makes a lot more sense if you have checked out a bit of swing, in all sorts of ways.
    Listen to early Dizzy, like at Minton's. If he ain't playing Roy, my name isn't....



    Mud? (;

  29. #78

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    I don't want to hijack this into a "Barry Harris 5-4-3-2" thread, but I have a quick question:

    I found this YT of Barry Harris teaching his 5-4-3-2 phrases. I admit I'm a little confused. Except in the final example where he has the students string all three phrases together, he appears to always start the phrase on the "G" or 5. Am I hearing that wrong?

    For example, my ears are telling me that 4 phrase is G-F-D-Eb-E. Likewise 3 seems to be G-F-E-Bb-B-D. But I understood from earlier posts that the 5 phrase was used when you hit the 5 of the chord/scale you were playing, the 4 on the 4th, etc.

    Can anyone help me sort this out?

    Thanks


  30. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by fasstrack View Post
    Eh?

    Simple English, sil vous plais, kind sir...
    In the simple English of guitarist Sid Jacobs, "scale step from above, chromatic from below ... Mozart or Joe Pass? "


  31. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ View Post
    Classic enclosure: targeting the third by scale step from above, double chromatic from below . That kind of stuff works on any Chord tone. I.e., bebop 101
    Yes but sometimes i tend to abuse of it , i think it's powerful when used moderately !

  32. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ View Post
    Classic enclosure: targeting the third by scale step from above, double chromatic from below . That kind of stuff works on any Chord tone. I.e., bebop 101
    Quote Originally Posted by fasstrack View Post
    Eh?

    Simple English, sil vous plais, kind sir...
    I think he means if you want to end your idea on the 3rd then play in C major
    F (next note in scale above target note "scale step from above", 4)
    D (2 chromatic or half steps below target "double chromatic from below", 2)
    Eb( 1 chromatic or half step below target, b3)
    E (the target note, 3)

    And if I read correctly from another post, you may not want to play the first note (the 4th note based on the chord) on a downbeat in bebop phrasing. I hope I am getting this right.

  33. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by fasstrack View Post
    You know Sheryl (BailEY, BTW) is my friend and neighbor, a very sweet gal and hell of a guitar player, but I'm not sure I like that title so much. It sort of sounds like 'in so-and-so steps you will master such-and-such. No such animal.Probably she didn't quite mean it that way.

    Knowing Sheryl and the quality of her playing and teaching I know the content is worthwhile, but that title? I just don't know...
    No knock on Sheryl Bailey. The title is a part of a series from Truefire. I'm sure that is not her doing (or the doing of many of the artist on Truefire).

  34. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobby Marshall View Post
    I think he means if you want to end your idea on the 3rd then play in C major
    F (next note in scale above target note "scale step from above", 4)
    D (2 chromatic or half steps below target "double chromatic from below", 2)
    Eb( 1 chromatic or half step below target, b3)
    E (the target note, 3)

    And if I read correctly from another post, you may not want to play the first note (the 4th note based on the chord) on a downbeat in bebop phrasing. I hope I am getting this right.
    Wow. This is Greek to me, and way too taxing for my addled brain.

    I appreciate the time and effort, though. Thank you.

    I just cannot think in such a complicated fashion and admit I'm not all that analytical about playing. Composing, maybe, when processing new concepts. Even then I try to internalize the essence, not the nomenclature. Everyone has different learning styles.

    All I know how to do playing is to follow my melodic instincts and try to hear the time the bass player and/or drummer is laying down. Seems to work...

  35. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by fasstrack View Post
    You know Sheryl (BailEY, BTW) is my friend and neighbor, a very sweet gal and hell of a guitar player, but I'm not sure I like that title so much. It sort of sounds like 'in so-and-so steps you will master such-and-such'. No such animal.Probably she didn't quite mean it that way.

    Knowing Sheryl and the quality of her playing and teaching I know the content is worthwhile, but that title? I just don't know...
    It's a True-Fire Course and there a lot of them titled that way: 50 Bebop / Jazz / Hard Bop / Jump Blues / Western Swing (and so on) Licks You MUST Know. All genre have idiomatic licks. Sheryl's course is a good place to learn a lot of fine bebop licks (and how those licks work).
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  36. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ View Post
    In the simple English of guitarist Sid Jacobs, "scale step from above, chromatic from below ... Mozart or Joe Pass? "

    Indeed. It's amazing how many licks Wolfgang stole from Joe.

  37. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by rlrhett View Post
    No knock on Sheryl Bailey. The title is a part of a series from Truefire. I'm sure that is not her doing (or the doing of many of the artist on Truefire).
    Glad to hear. She would never be that corny or self-congratulatory...
    Last edited by fasstrack; 10-02-2016 at 06:07 PM.

  38. #87
    Just purchased pasquale's master class part 2 , very interessting how he derives bebopish devices just from diatonic triads !
    but i was expecting him to talk about this whole deal of 54321 !
    where can i learn more about this guys , apart from the youtube random barry harris vids ?

  39. #88

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    Indeed. It's amazing how many licks Wolfgang stole from Joe.
    Donald Byrd used to come to the Local 802 Jazz Foundation jam session in the 90s.

    He said one time out of the blue

    "Miles Davis heard Sweets (Edison) play with a mute one night, and started doing it after that.

    Thief'...

  40. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by mooncef View Post
    Just purchased pasquale's master class part 2 , very interessting how he derives bebopish devices just from diatonic triads !
    but i was expecting him to talk about this whole deal of 54321 !
    where can i learn more about this guys , apart from the youtube random barry harris vids ?
    Jazz School Online - Barry Harris Workshop Video


    Howard Rees has published three DVD/Workbook sets of Barry Harris workshops. A lifetime of study.

    Full disclosure, Howard is my publisher.

  41. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by mooncef View Post
    where can i learn more about this guys , apart from the youtube random barry harris vids ?
    The Barry Harris DVD/workbook sets are worth their weight in gold. It's all there.

    bebop language study group ?-bh_workshop_video_1-jpg bebop language study group ?-bh_workshop_video_2-jpg

    Got to attend one of Barry's classes in NYC two weeks ago and got him to sign my copy. Total fanboy moment.


    bebop language study group ?-14370174_10153719056881428_6473137469520034070_n-jpg

    bebop language study group ?-14322460_10153719687971428_5509428658713147446_n-jpg

    London Jazz Guitar Society:
    www.meetup.com/londonjazzguitarsociety
    LJGS on Twitter: www.twitter.com/LDNJazzGuitar

  42. #91
    Roni Ben-hur is a Harris guy as well. His book, "Talk Jazz Guitar" is based on Harris improv material https://www.amazon.com/Mel-Talk-Jazz.../dp/0974494321

    Is anyone familiar with it and know how it lines up with other Harris material?
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 10-03-2016 at 06:38 AM.

  43. #92

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    It's nice that Barry is getting the appreciation he deserves in the UK. People seem to be getting hip to his ideas.

    I remember 10 years ago there were four or five people in his class when he came over.

    I used to mention BH stuff and people had no idea who he is.

  44. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Roni Ben-hur is a Harris guy as well. His book talk jazz guitar is based on Harris improv material https://www.amazon.com/Mel-Talk-Jazz.../dp/0974494321

    Is anyone familiar with it and know how it lines up with other Harris material?
    Roni's book is excellent and one of the few that I work with regularly. It's based on Barry's teachings and includes a number of topics that you'll encounter in BH's materials - the rules for adding half-steps to scales, enclosures (surrounding notes), the sixth diminished scales in single-note form etc.

    Roni has a couple of instructional videos available at Jazz Guitar Classes | Mike's Master Classes entitled 'Anatomy of a Tune', in which he shows you how to analyse the structure of a tune a la Barry, play the scales for the tune and begin to turn that knowledge into phrases and a solo.
    'How High the Moon' - Anatomy of a Tune - Be-bop Style | Lesson by Roni Ben-Hur | Mike's Master Classes
    'Confirmation' - Confirmation | Lesson by Roni Ben-Hur | Mike's Master Classes


    The other videos by Roni on that site are extracted from his 'Chordability' DVD - it works out a LOT cheaper to just buy the DVD.
    Last edited by David B; 10-03-2016 at 10:21 AM.

    London Jazz Guitar Society:
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  45. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by David B View Post
    Roni's book is excellent and one of the few that I work with regularly. It's based on Barry's teachings and includes a number of topics that you'll encounter in BH's materials - the rules for adding half-steps to scales, enclosures (surrounding notes), the sixth diminished scales in single-note form etc.

    Roni has a couple of instructional videos available at Jazz Guitar Classes | Mike's Master Classes entitled 'Anatomy of a Tune', in which he shows you how to analyse the structure of a tune a la Barry, play the scales for the tune and begin to turn that knowledge into phrases and a solo.
    'How High the Moon' - Anatomy of a Tune - Be-bop Style | Lesson by Roni Ben-Hur | Mike's Master Classes
    'Confirmation' - Confirmation | Lesson by Roni Ben-Hur | Mike's Master Classes


    The other videos by Roni on that site are extracted from his 'Chordability' DVD - it works out a LOT cheaper to just buy the DVD.
    Thanks, David.

  46. #95

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    I've been to a bunch of Barry Harris workshops, they are always great.

    If you're expecting to go to one and having a whole system illuminated and spelled out for you, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

    You show up, tune up, and buckle in... he goes over whatever he feels like that day, and you have to pick it up mostly by ear and deciphering his explanations.

  47. #96

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    So, I had this idea to see if I could pull phrases similar to the 5-4-3-2 that can be jumbled and re-worked in the same way. I looked at a random solo in the Charlie Parker Omnibook (the first one) and was able to find little 2 beat or so phrases that start on each degree of the scale. I can't wait to try it out! Seems like it could lead to some cool stuff.
    White belt
    My Youtube

  48. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77 View Post
    It's nice that Barry is getting the appreciation he deserves in the UK. People seem to be getting hip to his ideas.
    Worldwide, actually.

    Barry def has his 'ways'---I'll leave it like that---but is a very great man (I mean aside from music). No one has done for jazz musicians what he has in NY. I know this from personal experience going back at least to 1982.

    I consider him like a 2nd father...

  49. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by David B View Post
    The Barry Harris DVD/workbook sets are worth their weight in gold. It's all there.

    bebop language study group ?-bh_workshop_video_1-jpg bebop language study group ?-bh_workshop_video_2-jpg

    Got to attend one of Barry's classes in NYC two weeks ago and got him to sign my copy. Total fanboy moment.


    bebop language study group ?-14370174_10153719056881428_6473137469520034070_n-jpg

    bebop language study group ?-14322460_10153719687971428_5509428658713147446_n-jpg
    I'm very tempted but it's a pricy investment for now :/ can you convince me how much it's realy worth it ?

  50. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by mooncef View Post
    I'm very tempted but it's a pricy investment for now :/ can you convince me how much it's realy worth it ?
    Do it.

  51. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by mooncef View Post
    I'm very tempted but it's a pricy investment for now :/ can you convince me how much it's realy worth it ?
    They're worth it.

    Sample 1:


    The Barry Harris Workshop Video ? Howard Rees' Jazz Workshops

    Sample 2:


    The Barry Harris Workshop Video Part 2 ? Howard Rees' Jazz Workshops

    London Jazz Guitar Society:
    www.meetup.com/londonjazzguitarsociety
    LJGS on Twitter: www.twitter.com/LDNJazzGuitar