Chord Superimposition/Substitution

[zlarmer]

All right,

I've seen a couple of threads discussing this topic... so I thought I would sort of make an official hub for resources on chord superimposition.

What I'm talking about here is implying certain chord substitutions while soloing.

What sounds are your favorite? I'm gonna take your answers and make them into a list of favorite sounds. o.O

Sounds:
-Superimposing a iii chord over a I chord. Example: Em7 over Cmaj7
It gives a Cmaj7,9 sound. Even better? an Em9 over Cmaj7, giving a Cmaj7,9,(#11) sound. =)

-Superimpose a bII7 over the V chord. For instance, a Db7 over a G7. This will give you a G7b9b5 sound.

-Play a iiim7 chord over a vim7 chord. Example: Em7 over Am7. This will give you an Am7,9(11) sound.

-Play a viim7b5 chord over a vim7 chord. Example: Bm7b5 over Am7. This will give you an Am7,9(11),(b13) sound.

All right... that's starting small to give you the idea. Who else? I'm particularly interested in your views on superimposing augmented and diminished chords, for that strong tension.

Cheers =)

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I have to tell myself not to overdo this, because I can't resist this in a turnaround:

CHORD + SOLO = RESULT
Fmaj7 . Amin7 . Fmaj9
D7 .... Ab7 ... D7b9b5
Gmin7 . Gmin7
C7 .... Gb7 ... C7b9b5

And if, for example, you extend the solo from Ab7/D7 to Ab9/D7 that adds a #5 to the D chord sound. It's all good!

Edit: I also like the first two columns reversed! If you know the comping is substituting chords, make the solo straight. A different sort of tension

[zlarmer]

all right, so we've touched on substituting dominants with a dominant that is a tritone away now.

anything else?

[Patriots2006]

IIIm7 over VIm7 5, 7, 9, 11
bVIMaj7 over V7 b3 (blues note), 5, 7, 9
Dom7b5 over Dom7 of same name
VIIm7b5 over VIm7 9, 11, b13, 1

Maj triad starting from the 13th of a Dom7 chord 13, b9, 3 or
Dom7 starting form the 13th of a dom7 which adds the 5th to the previous chord tones/tension notes.

IIm7 over V7 5, 7, 9, 11 unresolved but don't sit on the note.
VII7b5 over IVMaj7 #11, 6, 1, 3 The VII7 chord would probably be analyzed as the V7b5 of IIIm7 (B7b5/Em7).

[derek]

all right, so we've touched on substituting dominants with a dominant that is a tritone away now.

anything else?

You can also sub dominants that are a minor 3rd away for the V.

So if G7 is the V then, Bb7, Db7 (TT), E7 work also.

Got this tibit from Pete McCann (NTSU) at NGW Jazz Summit a couple of years ago.

[bako]

Complete Book of Harmony, Theory & Voicing by Brett Willmott is a guitar book that addresses this topic extensively. I have never seen more superimposed relationships and voicings gathered in the same place.

[derek]

Complete Book of Harmony, Theory & Voicing by Brett Willmott is a guitar book that addresses this topic extensively. I have never seen more superimposed relationships and voicings gathered in the same place.

Thanks for the heads up Bako. Sounds like an interesting read.

[Patriots2006]

IIIm7 over VIm7 5, 7, 9, 11
bVIMaj7 over V7 b3 (blues note), 5, 7, 9
Dom7b5 over Dom7 of same name
VIIm7b5 over VIm7 9, 11, b13, 1

Maj triad starting from the 13th of a Dom7 chord 13, b9, 3 or
Dom7 starting form the 13th of a dom7 which adds the 5th to the previous chord tones/tension notes.

IIm7 over V7 5, 7, 9, 11 unresolved but don't sit on the note.
VII7b5 over IVMaj7 #11, 6, 1, 3 The VII7 chord would probably be analyzed as the V7b5 of IIIm7 (B7b5/Em7).

Correction on previous posts. VII7b5 played against IV maj 7 would not yield (6). It should read b13.

[zlarmer]

Complete Book of Harmony, Theory & Voicing by Brett Willmott is a guitar book that addresses this topic extensively. I have never seen more superimposed relationships and voicings gathered in the same place.

That's a great book, and does indeed have many substitution ideas... though it's more on the principle of comping, rather than soloing.

=)

[bako]

In my mind comping and soloing are part of the same continuum.
Generally any collection of notes that work harmonically will work melodically.

Zlarmer is correct though in pointing out the focus of the book is on comping. He limits chords to the middle 4 strings under the thought that the bottom 4 might be too dark to be clearly understood as a superimposition over a bass note and the top 4 might conflict with the melody.

In so using this limitation he managed to pack more content into the same number of pages. I always transfer the voicings to all string groups and invert them beyond the text prescriptions and try out the ideas for soloing as well.

[derek]

In my mind comping and soloing are part of the same continuum.
Generally any collection of notes that work harmonically will work melodically.

Zlarmer is correct though in pointing out the focus of the book is on comping. He limits chords to the middle 4 strings under the thought that the bottom 4 might be too dark to be clearly understood as a superimposition over a bass note and the top 4 might conflict with the melody.

In so using this limitation he managed to pack more content into the same number of pages. I always transfer the voicings to all string groups and invert them beyond the text prescriptions and try out the ideas for soloing as well.

I would think that should be assumed with any book that addresses such topics. Anything discussed vertically can be applied horizontally. By focusing on only the middle 4 strings, the author is allowed more space to more deeply address the topic.

Too many books hit a smaller amount of topics, but cover every possible position. I would prefer more content, as I can find the other positions on my own.

[musicfret]

Sounds:
-Superimposing a iii chord over a I chord. Example: Em7 over Cmaj7
It gives a Cmaj7,9 sound. Even better? an Em9 over Cmaj7, giving a Cmaj7,9,(#11) sound.

hello im new to this idea and was wondering
how you know what the result chord is going to be?Playing one chord over another that is.

are you seeing what chord tones are in each chord?

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Imagine going up in thirds from the root. For C:

C E G B D F A

I see chords:

C major triad: C E G
Cmaj7: C E G B
E minor triad: E G B
Emin7: E G B D
Emin9 E G B D F#

Now when you combine them the result is a longer extension of a C chord:

Cmaj + Emin = C E G + E G B = C E G B = Cmaj7
Cmaj + Emin7 = G E G + E G B D = C E G B D = Cmaj9
Cmaj + Emin9 = C E G + E G B D F# = C E G B D F# = Cmaj9(#11)

As always, don't just figure it out on paper, listen to see what it sounds like. For example, the F# sounds bright and modern against a C chord, versus Fnat.

[zlarmer]

Exactly. Well worded.

[timscarey]

in addition to what has already been covered..

Non-diatonic substitutions (leaving the key) work the best on Dominant chords.

A 4th stack from the 3rd of a dom chord is nice (as many nots as you want)

Augmented triads work from anywhere

Minor blues scales from the #9 works well on an altered chord.

Diminshed triads work from anywhere

Diatonic acending 4th-stacks by mode (chord function)

Ionian - from the 7th (Major 6)
Dorian- from the 6th (Minor 6)
Lydian - from the #4 (Major 7)
Aeolian - from the 9th (Minor 7)
Lociran - From the root (Minor 7 b5)

I use these all the time.

oh yeah... Be-bop 2-5's.
In the space of a written 2-5, first arrpegiate a 2-5 up a hlaf step, then the written 2-5. I got that from Tadd Dameron and John Coltrane doing "on a misty night" where they reharm "september in the rain" and add the "be-bop" 2-5's on the bridge.

[thebluntman]

emaj add 9 over c is cool e f# g# b

[ScotGormley]

The Walt Weizkopf (spellling?) book is great for developing lines with triad pairs over the various chord types. The fingerings for these lines are really challenging, and I'd love to work on a Guitarist's Companion book for Walt's book some day.