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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by mooncef
    I just started with the 1st 2nd 3rd inversion of Cmajor scale triades in page 11 ! is that where it starts normaly ?
    it's a good exercise i think that should be the starting point ! then we move on !
    Everything up to page 29 is just general remarks and explanations. You should read those pages as many times as necessary to make certain you completely understand what he is saying. The work begins on page 29.

    Quote Originally Posted by mooncef
    Do the first inversion exercises in page 29 have specific constraints for strings sets like described in the page before or is it free ?
    It isn't free.

    The exercises beginning on page 29 have definite string set markings. These exercises are the basis for everything that comes after. You should practice and memorize those before attempting to make up your own fingerings. If you practice and internalize everything from page 29 through page 63 you will have learned, hopefully, everything you need to approach the remainder of the volumes in an effective manner.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by monk
    Everything up to page 29 is just general remarks and explanations. You should read those pages as many times as necessary to make certain you completely understand what he is saying. The work begins on page 29.



    It isn't free.

    The exercises beginning on page 29 have definite string set markings. These exercises are the basis for everything that comes after. You should practice and memorize those before attempting to make up your own fingerings. If you practice and internalize everything from page 29 through page 63 you will have learned, hopefully, everything you need to approach the remainder of the volumes in an effective manner.
    Alright i've done the C major 1 inversion exercise ! with the exact fingerings and strings set .. the first chord have no string sets prescribe i bet since there aren't many choices so the first chord was F A D so i continued in this string set
    until the next string set was indicated , i also infered that a string set stays unless a new one is stated !
    i realy liked the exercise ! i will work on the next key tomorrow

  4. #28

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    in learning inversions on all string sets in all keys in all possible voicing's close and open ..and starting the scale from any note in any of these inversions in all possible intervals 3rds 5ths 7ths 9ths 11 and 13 is the essence of these studies..while not a chord melody study..it IS a study in moving voices and their harmonic relationships..

    the old adage: a journey of a thousand miles begins with one step..just as a guitarist learning a C chord if you never played one before can be a challenge..

    many must wonder how much time it took for guys like VE or Greene to acquire and "learn" the vast amount of information and then apply it to the guitar..(just putting the material together to write the books they did must have taken years of full time workweeks-they didn't use computers!)

    in looking at it from a distance they built information on preceding information..alot of numerical and musical "logic" is used in almost all exercises..the fingerings and string choices may be debated..but not the notes..

    the exercise using the notes F A D is a D minor inversion in the key of C..you will see it again in the key of Bb etc..the lesson is to view the voices in these studies and learn to "move them" in melodic bits..

    fast forward..after this type of info is digested and becomes "mechanical" is will be much easier to pick out a melodic phrase while playing through the chords..thus chord melody..

    as Greene points out in chord chemistry..some know how to play a lot of chords..but don't how to use them...its better to know how to play a few chords and know how to use them..and of course..how to play a lot of chords AND know how to use them...

  5. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulHintz
    Perhaps this is the copyeditor in me, but... I think a useful first step for all three volumes can be the creation of an adequate table of contents (don't get me started on the editorial problems with these books. Mel Bay did GVE no great favor by publishing them as-is). It helps one see the structure and topics more clearly. Even better might be the kind of table of contents that was more often done in the distant past---when the contents of each chapter would be summarized in a line or two in the table of contents.

    I've tried over the decades (I bought volume one when it first came out...) to work through this material both by picking-and-choosing topics (the result of doing the t-of-c building I suggest above), and by starting at Volume 1 Page 1 and daring myself to march resolutely, moving that bookmark forward a page at a time.

    That neither approach has resulted in me mastering this material speaks more to the fragmented nature of my path as a guitarist, than it does to the value of GVE's great opus. It's always helpful, and inspiring, to encounter a new thread on this topic.

    Could any of you suggest specific recordings to search for, for the mid-1930s to 1950s work? I've got the later-in-life Concord CDs. They're good, but...
    I mentioned it in an earlier post, but you can make your own sort of "Table of Contents" by just putting a Post-It or sticky tab at the beginning of each section.

    I think it's much easier to work through a number of different exercises in the same key, rather than working through one exercise in all 12 keys. Helps with the tedium, but that's just me.

    As far as recordings go, look for GVE's small group recordings on Jump Records. Sadly, I think they're out of print, but you can find tracks on YouTube.


  6. #30

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    The Van Eps/Miller/Wrightson recordings on Jump have been re-released under the title Once In Awhile with additional takes.

    Back in the 80s the original album was released by the Allegheny Jazz Society and the additional takes were released as a second LP. I have both of those but this new CD combines all 22 cuts on one CD.

    Here's a link to a seller. I got my CD from Amazon. It's out there for anyone who wants it.
    George Van Eps : Once in Awhile CD (2014) - Jump Records | OLDIES.com

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by monk
    Wes,
    You are free to believe what you like and work on this as you like. However Van Eps did state otherwise
    hi all, interesting discussion. I’m on page 30 of vol 1. I have Ted Greene’s books and went through dozens of pages of each but this book has enticed me away and I’m focused. There’s something about his frank presentation and thoughtfulness in exercises. Just this very first one. Page 29/30. He changes up the fingerings each key, and the keys are ordered descending circle of 5ths. By going through each key, you learn to play even the same chords at different positions, with different fingerings, and in different contexts. I can’t imagine you’d get the same lessons just posting stickies and going through the book on the same key. Now, Ted Greene stuck to a key at a time except on Modern Chord Progressions. But he was emphatic to transpose to all keys. Van Epps just chose, in ye olde mindset, to guide you through all this. It’s intimidating this way but the most value really does appear to me to go through the book in order. He wasn’t redundant in each key within a given lesson - each subsequent key changes it up a little and provides a new scenario to experiment with transitions. Sorry, but regardless of what Van Epps said to, surely, a smirking Ted Greene (who made it clear to go in order for his books), it seems clear to me he didn’t write what he considered an encyclopedia (at the time). He wrote lessons. My votes on going in order. You in a hurry somewhere? Haha.

  8. #32

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    I'm looking for volume 1 but they are fairly pricey on Amazon and eBay. Anyone know where I might find a cheaper copy? I'm based in Europe.

    Thank you

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liarspoker
    I'm looking for volume 1 but they are fairly pricey on Amazon and eBay. Anyone know where I might find a cheaper copy? I'm based in Europe.

    Thank you
    You can get it as an e-book from Mel Bay, which would avoid shipping costs etc.

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcjazz
    You can get it as an e-book from Mel Bay, which would avoid shipping costs etc.
    Thank you ?

  11. #35

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    I'm stuck on something in Vol 1 that I hope someone here can help me with. On page 70, with the "3 to 6 down" exercises, where you are supposed to hold one voice while moving another to sketch out a 2nd inversion triad. There's one fingering that has me stumped. It's the C major triad in the middle of the page here. How am I supposed to hold the E on the first string with my third finger, play C B A on the second string with the other three fingers, then play a G on the third string with my third finger? I can't barre the third finger because the notes on the second string move underneath it, and he really emphasizes in this section that the whole notes should be sustained for the entire measure. I don't think it's a typo (though there definitely are plenty in this book!) because he uses that fingering on that set of strings for a lot of major chords on the next few pages. Am I missing something? I don't see how this is possible while sustaining the top E.


    George van Eps harmonic mechanisms study group vol1-20210804_185424-jpg

  12. #36

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    I think it's a typo. Play the G with the second finger.

  13. #37

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    G has to be second finger. I think it's a typo.

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    G has to be second finger. I think it's a typo.
    snap!

  15. #39

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    That's what I was thinking but it's written that way several times through the 12 keys. Really weird.

  16. #40

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    And notice that in the introduction to this section, GVE says you don't have to sound the resolving triad -- it is there for "orientation."

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by pcjazz
    And notice that in the introduction to this section, GVE says you don't have to sound the resolving triad -- it is there for "orientation."
    Yes but he emphasizes to make sure the held note sounds for the entire measure and that's what was hanging me up, it's not possible with this fingering. I'm just going to use the second finger for that last note. Not really surprising that a few notation errors slipped through in this massive book. Must have kept the copyists busy!

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by jtr
    Not really surprising that a few notation errors slipped through in this massive book. Must have kept the copyists busy!
    Yes, vols 2 and 3 are in manuscript.