-
Originally Posted by Cunamara
You can go back to the source - and of course should, but it gives you a mental model of how to understand how the language is put together, and turn into your own lines.
-
10-02-2019 02:04 PM
-
Originally Posted by drbhrb
-
I think if studying them adds to your playing, it's worthwhile. I found better time spent learning Charlie Parker tunes.
-
Originally Posted by christianm77
I assume you are talking about non-parallel movement expanding (contrary motion) as Barry shows here:
Last edited by rintincop; 10-02-2019 at 09:18 PM.
-
Originally Posted by drbhrb
-
What's the good argument for not using the beop scale half step rules (add one or add three notes, add none or add two notes) ? Why would you not want to? It sounds so nice. Scales without it tend to sound like exercises (un-balanced).
Last edited by rintincop; 10-02-2019 at 05:51 PM.
-
Originally Posted by christianm77
Try playing it down to b6 and use the b6 as a maj 3 pivot to a major tetrachord.
For ex. In the key of C:
C B Bb A Ab E F# Ab B,
Now you’ve landed on B on a down beat, but use it to play descending maj3:
B G Bb F#, then continue with the scale
A Ab G
-
I call it the chromatic scale with interruptions (chord tone leaps, then pick up where you left off) along the way. I saw Barry demonstrating it in the ascending direction.
Last edited by rintincop; 10-02-2019 at 09:04 PM.
-
Originally Posted by rintincop
-
Hey Tal... I meant to say... V/VI... Using Tonal targets... VI7 becomes a tonal target, functioning as a I. And then the 2nd two beats of 2nd bar is V7alt of VI.... or C7alt. I generally Play....
bar 1 Bb9/9 C7alt(or Gb13) / F9 C7alt /
bar 2 (A13) Bb13 F7alt / Bb123 Bb7alt /
bar3... then i really get busy...
The difference with arrangements for BB as compared to solo guitar is all the notes need to be worked out with organization for all attacks.... every note is a complete chord, or some other type of harmonic organization... I have to leave... Going to a BB gig using my book, just Guitar trio as rhythm section....
I'll be glad to get into later...
-
Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
I can think of only two cases in order to quickly realign or balance a continuous scale line (we're talking strictly scale):
1. By pitch: Inject half steps (per Barry's rules: add one or add three; add none or add two)
2. Rhythmic: Inject eighth rest(s) or extend a note's duration.
The so called "bebop scale" is the simplest most basic form of balancing the major scale (or the dominant scale). So it is not B.S.Last edited by rintincop; 10-02-2019 at 10:06 PM.
-
Originally Posted by rintincop
If you want chord tones on strong beats you can still play anything else, including chord tones, on weak beats. If you don't want to add a note, you can repeat a note.
But this is still a matter of what you're trying to do. I'm not very interested in playing an entire scale, with or without an extra note. I recognize that other players, including great players, think and act differently.
-
Originally Posted by rintincop
I don’t actually know who much Barry would claim ownership of any of these concepts. So my comment might have been oversimplistic.
So yeah, maybe Kenton and Hefti - I haven’t studied their music in depth.
But to call this scale a bebop scale I think is unhelpful. It’s may seem pedantic to you, but it’s the difference between a passing tone that acts as rhythmic filler and a sound which is featured in the harmony.
In one the #5 could be replaced by any note, in the other it is an important harmonic sound that gets used in chord voicings.
From your posts you seem to be trying generally to put your own interpretation into Barry’s ideas and mixing up different things. Nothing wrong with that of course, but I feel I then need to point out how I think Barry would talk about stuff just for people reading the forum who might get confused.
And bebop scale is not term you will hear Barry himself use. Bh’s terms, while unfamiliar, are consistently used and well thought out.
-
Originally Posted by StevenA
Sorry I don’t understand what you mean by BDGS?
-
Originally Posted by rintincop
When you use maj-6 dim you get to the IVm(maj7) chord and it’s just gorgeous, kind of a good example of how the b6/#5 gets used harmonically.
-
Originally Posted by christianm77
Example (proof)
Descending C6 major scale from 8 to 1:
C B A Ab G F E D C
put that single extra half step anywhere else along the way and it goes off balance (chord tones go off the beat). David Baker’s “How To Play Bebop” is mostly concerned with that point.
It goes hand in hand with the geography of the alternating block chords of the C6 diminished chord scale. They are related, they are essentially the same parallel concept. One is simply single notes and the the other builds block chords upon those same single notes! They both hinge on the system of chord tone, non-chord tone, chord tone, non-chord tone, chord tone, non-chord tone, etc... By saying they are quite different is a misunderstanding of the nature of the system.
-
The C major “bebop scale” ,which adds a chromatic passing tone between 5 and 6, is the C 6 diminished scale before its harmonized. That’s fundamental. It’s the skeleton of the block chord scale. It was being done already when Barry was still a young kid, before bebop was happening.
-
Originally Posted by drbhrb
I just wanted to say that there can be some misunderstanding because what BH does is absolutely non-conventional from what we see in jazz education in the open market ... I am not even saying uinversities - just the open educational market: which is mostly numerous methods from players in books or youtube which are designed in approximately the same style: more or less pragmatic, clear and scientific system. They remind books 'Italian for 100 days' of something like.... that forms much our expectations form it. Also consumer's mentality is much incorporated in out mids too. We want things to be sold to us and be well- advertised and we even become demanding about it (youtube shows it very well).
One of the specific feature of these methods - they are mostly linear (whic is very sciteific (at least in old trad science methodolody) too)
But BH does a different thing... this kind of approach is not that linear in my opinion... you are dropped in teh middle of something and surrounded by some things showing up from different sides and that may seem disconnected sometimes... but eventually you get more and more info and things get connected .. but you do not move anywhere in direct sence... this does not work for anyone - especially in our days when pragamatism became common philosophy of success on every level.
I woudl say - if you do not get BH you either just drop it... of keep it up quietly in the tempo and rhythm you wish and let it be and see how it works for you eventually...
In real calsses - I know personally a couple of guys who participated - BH reminds a bit my son's (and for a period mine) karate teacher: he does not try to be attractive, does not try to please anyone and can be really tough. It is the systen that tries you which actually reminds a bit old school bandstand method...
We today expect too much, we paid money we want to be pleased for it first of all, more than to be educated or taught. But with Barry it will not work like that...
I just wanted to say that - not specifically about you - but about me too...
Of course there is a chance that you already have the things that are taught there behind and you do not need.
We would not expect Sonny Stitt study BH's scale... he personificated that music himself.
But this is for those who approaches it from outside and feels that cannot play in that style naturally and it is not by far not about putting notes in a line.
I would say the very heart of BH's school is pitch/rythmometric realtionships (which actually makes the best of European music from Renaissance till now). It is all focused on where to you play that note. And all developed how to incorporate it so that you would do it naturally in real practice without second thought.
To make you react to the context in the style
-
In jazz piano history, block chords that alternate between a 6th chord and a diminished chord supposedly originated with pianist arranger Phill Moore, born 1918. Then George Shearing, born 1919, popularized it. Barry Harris was born 1929 and was still a kid when these guys were already out there doing it. Just saying.
-
Originally Posted by rintincop
‘The rule is more important than the note’ Barry Harris
Another solution from the Baker book is simply to put a quarter note on the first note. In BH terms that effectively reverses the rules in the same way as an offbeat or triplet. You see that variation a lot!Last edited by christianm77; 10-03-2019 at 03:33 AM.
-
Originally Posted by rintincop
-
1 7 6 #4 5 4 3 2 1
1 7 6 7 5 4 3 1
Well you are using a leaps and an enclosure to get things on track in the first example and in the second example you are repeating the 7th and then leaping over the 6th. I thought we were considering the “bebop scale” (David Baker) to be linear stepwise motion, rather than phrases that leap and enclose. You are using embellishment phrases to make your case
-
We were talking block chords . It’s the origin of the so called 6th dim harmony scale . Step 1 . Of course Barry Harris does block chords, but he takes that old system and tweaks them in very clever and creative ways. He uses contrary motion, varies the note density, etc.
-
Originally Posted by christianm77
“1. By pitch: Inject half steps (per Barry's rules: add one or add three; add none or add two)
2. Rhythmic: Inject eighth rest(s) or extend a note's duration.”
I forgot to to mention the triplet though, good catch.
-
Originally Posted by rintincop
New Campellone Standard on Reverb
Today, 04:54 PM in For Sale