how useful is perfect pitch

[matt.guitarteacher]

In the real world asking for evidence is a not a sin. Get over it.

The real world....

Yeah. In the real world, even in the world of science, everything isn't false until proven true. Unproven or inconclusive ideas are allowed and discussed.

Then, there is common decency. In the real world, people don't demand evidence to PROVE someone else's PERSONAL experience. Not in the kind of casual conversation that we have here. This isn't a research group. It's a group of people talking about music, and much of it is based on personal experience.

No one is implying that your story about your sons is untrue, demanding proof of you're son's experience, basically calling you a liar if you don't prove it, or pointing out the possible hypocrisy of mocking others for suggesting that the acquisition of PP later in life MIGHT be possible, all while stating that your own son has done as much.

No one is questioning that which you claim to be your own personal experience, because to do so would be indecent and arrogant. It would also be assuming the worst of another human being, instead of the best, and would violate the basic idea of good faith required to have this kind of conversation in the first place.

For bringing up the "real world", I'd say that your tone and behavior are the least "real world" in the conversation, IF the analog is a group of friends talking music.

[jasonc]

So, I guess everybody switched to decaf recently. Perfect pitch is definitely a real thing. I don't think it's just a memory thing either. I knew a girl in college who had the freaky call-out-the-name-of-any-note-played and she could hear the pitch of anything. She could tell you what pitch a car exhaust or lawn mower was. She didn't know how she did it but it didn't seem like she had pitches memorized. Also, it clearly didn't help her musical abilities. She was one of the worst musicians I've ever played with. I have no proof and no clinical trials were performed but that is the experience I have with PP.

[mr. beaumont]

I have perfect pitch...for one note. A, an octave below 440. I can sing it on command and tune your fifth string to it within 1 cent.

It comes from having taught "highway to hell" and "hells bells" to over 100 teenage boys over the last 15 years.

So, in theory, yeah...I could learn it for 11 other pitches...would take a long time...better not use "Ziggy Stardust" as a reference...could it be taught? Hard to say.

[Robertkoa]

"Perfect Pitch" may have multiple meanings etc.

But long ago I met a girl who said she had perfect pitch and I remember she could nearly instantly name any note about as quickly as I could name a Color....
She did not 'study ' to get this ability.
She took Piano at a young age but was not very interested to play any more.

I had previously heard that some people have this ability...I don't know what happens if you tune to A- 335 instead of A-440 - I didn't go that far with her
but I saw it first hand..each pitch was like recognizing/ naming a color to her.

She had to learn at some point -just like I had to learn what Purple is- but I didn't woodshed my colors when I was 5 years old...and she didn't woodshed her "note recognition".

[Vladan]

If I remember correctly, in some older versions of BIAB, maybe even in recent ones, I do not know, there was a nice little video game called "Pitch Invaders", or alike, where you hear a note, while letters are falling from the sky, object of the game is to shoot correct letter before it hits the ground. After a while, you become quite good at it. After a period of not doing it, you get back to where you were. Guess if you kept playing the game regularly, for a longish time, it could get stuck in your brain.

BTW, on recalling a song from memory, it usually comes in original key, doesn't it? Only if you initiallyy miss it on the instrument and start searching for the right note, you end in one that's comfortable, but "wrong". So, instead of drawing aanaalogy to colors, or "charachteristic sound" of a particular note, Instead of saying "Brown" for F, you could just as easy say "Blues", or whatever.

[Robertkoa]

Well- this was probably in my late Teens..

this girl was not someone I knew but she did have one of the "textbook" perfect pitch abilities to near instantly name any note played...I didn't check her regarding chords..( could she identify each note in a chord played simultaneously etc.) and she was not proud of it and got a bit annoyed by my questions- she wasn't into Music any more as a Player...

Her ability by itself would be great in College...but unless there were other skills it would not help her Improvise..

However it is very possible that she might have increased ability to hear and identify Intervals and IF she was into playing Music...it's tempting to assume she might have gone far...

One thing that really counts in Improv IMO is "lag" counting mental "lag" and especially physical "lag".

One reason I think ( on another thread) some Players don't "think" when improvising is reducing mental lag by simply " hearing" phrases and Notes and playing them NOT the Names of the Notes like Miss Perfect Pitch above but
a mental sound image ( mental MP3 ..lol) of the Notes and play them as you hear them and sometimes mentally " previewing" the next phrase or phrase ending - while you are playing NOW- and sticking on the ending you preview in your mind...all in real time.
.
When people think of "Chops" they think of being able to play fast or play complex riffs in Rhythm but another key part is obviously being able to play what you are hearing.. with minimal lag...
so it is in Time and Rhythm .

This is why I sometimes Caution people about complex picking schemes that are
pick this way if ascending, this way descending, this way if it's Tuesday...etc.

Now if it WORKS for you after a reasonable amount of time- fine - but if it increases your " lag" too much and
Interferes with your flow- then simplify.

Musicians rarely "hear" 'wrong' Notes in their Mind [ Even if they Do Not know the Names of the Notes or the Intervals]-
the 'trick' is to find them and sync up imagination and reality ..
and occasionally stepping down to a more concscious, calculating mental state ( i.e.thinking G minor type Arpeggio to end this prase a hair before it's done).

It would be interesting to find out what Advanced Improvisers are "thinking" while they Play including 1)
'Super Conscious' just playing with NO thinking-

2)Sub Conscious -No Thinking drawing from their 'History'

3) "Hearing" what they are Playing and doing it in real time STILL not "thinking"
in conventional sense.

4) Mostly number 3 above with occasional consciously throwing in devices, figures, cool licks, etc.

5) Combinations of above but only a hair from knowing everything they are doing notewise..interval wise..notes on staff wise etc.

Did I miss anything?

What are 6) and 7) ?


Mental Exercises / Meditation/Musical Mind Games can help IMO.

[targuit]

Robert -

There is a thread on Sonny Rollins that I started that addresses some of these issues including the role of the subconscious. Besides being a great improviser, Sonny is a deep thinker. There are some great videos on YTube of interviews with him. I would almost guarantee you would find them interesting and provocative. Great stuff. I linked a few in the thread, but you can always put him into the search on YT.

Henry also contributes some interesting personal vignettes about talking with him one on one.

[jasonc]

"Perfect Pitch" may have multiple meanings etc.

But long ago I met a girl who said she had perfect pitch and I remember she could nearly instantly name any note about as quickly as I could name a Color....
She did not 'study ' to get this ability.
She took Piano at a young age but was not very interested to play any more.

I had previously heard that some people have this ability...I don't know what happens if you tune to A- 335 instead of A-440 - I didn't go that far with her
but I saw it first hand..each pitch was like recognizing/ naming a color to her.

She had to learn at some point -just like I had to learn what Purple is- but I didn't woodshed my colors when I was 5 years old...and she didn't woodshed her "note recognition".

I asked her that very thing. She said it was like being a human tuner she would pick up the note as A but it would be sharp or flat in relation to whatever her ideal A was. When you would ask for a pitch from something like a fan motor she'd say something like "Well it's kind of in between E and F but closer to F." Which is kind of why it never seemed like a memorization thing. It was certainly a cool trick but I wouldn't spend any time trying to cultivate it. Working on Solfege would be time better spent in my opinion.

[Ian_S]

I presume you have seen this video?

[lammie200]

Hearing is one of the five senses. Just like some people are color blind some people are tone deaf. On the other hand, some people have heightened senses. If it has been proven that some people can distinguish fewer colors than others, and although the converse may not have been proven, there is the possibility that some people can recognize many more colors than a typical person can. I will speculate that the same is true for recognizing sounds. If someone with a heightened sense of hearing can distinguish all sounds and relate them to a pitch that they can easily recognize, I can see no reason why they couldn't name notes as they hear them. It is probably a savant type of behavior like someone being able to recite the decimal places of pi, but there are a lot of people in this world. Oh, if I could name notes by pitch accurately I am sure that I could find a use for it. There once was guy that went deaf but still composed. I am not deaf so maybe I would have a leg up.