-
Originally Posted by Stevebol
-
12-15-2015 04:30 PM
-
Originally Posted by docbop
It's just politics. We all have to deal with it one way or another.
-
Originally Posted by docbop
But you do have to be very self-guided, it's true. One hour a week with your instrument professor, then at least 25hrs shedding to internalize what you just heard. Same thing with the ensembles - your solo practice time had better outnumber your hrs with the ensemble - significantly.
Just playing with the ensemble isn't gonna get you there.
-
Originally Posted by BigDee62
Lol. No thanks.
-
Originally Posted by BigDee62
Actually I graduated two music schools and also worked at the one for many years. Music education has kind of become a hobby for me in how schools work and looking at results. I know a number of music teachers at the big schools and we talk about this topic from time to time. So I have been to music school and these are my observations, if you disagree that's fine, but I stand by what I said.
-
I teach in 12 keys..in ALL positions..ALL inversions most jazz piano players are puzzled that a lot of guitarist don't push themselves to learn this..
yep you need the heat to do it .. the standard tuned guitar is illogical vs piano..playing triads - close and open and their inversions on piano is fairly easy in any key..no real finger stretching or string skipping..intervals are easy to SEE..forming chords with extensions are also easy to see and play..on guitar G13b9/F might take a bit of time depending on context of the chord what part of the neck your playing it in..what chord came before and after..not a bit logical..tuned in fourths..then a major 3rd and back to fourths..really..and how much rum was consumed when this design was created
scales piano vs guitar..no contest
trying to get the feel..not the sound..of Bill Evans on guitar..block out a year or so...
yes the study of classical music will help learning any instrument..
I was fortunate to begin learning the blues from advanced players who knew Bloomfield and Hendrix inside and out..then a couple of years in school learning Harmony and theory and then several years in bands..and I had a guitar buddy during all this time who would experiment with chords/harmony while I experimented with scales and melodic lines..and we had a band..then I studied with Ted Greene for two years..(Im still learning some of those lessons) .. he taught a lot about chords.. but not as chords but voices that were at rest and then move to other notes..he would play Bach Chorales mixed with some jazz chords..so classical to many jazz players is a secret ingredient .. many of todays "new" guys are using classical lines mixed in jazz vocabulary..
my view..my approach is there is only ONE key..and it has 12 tones..its like a jigsaw puzzle in the beginning..trying to get the pieces to fit together..sometime forcing them..and gradually..the picture begins to take shape..and then its done? well not really..a new puzzle is ready to be assembled..and another and another...
-
Originally Posted by Stevebol
-
When I started playing guitar I'd jam to mom or dad playing some Hanon in the other room. I didn't learn to read music for ages. Still can't read well at all.
-
Originally Posted by christianm77
-
So if you guys think guitar is a challenge. I play a custom 12 string Lap Steel Guitar. It's like playing guitar with one finger. Try that. Also consider there is no material that exists for me. So I have to transcribe EVERYTHING. Which is great but it kills my practice time.
-
Originally Posted by ilapsteel
-
Originally Posted by docbop
-
Originally Posted by Ray1981
There's a Hank Mobley book I want to read
-
I'm assuming when practicing the 12 keys we just follow the circle of fifths around from C.
Or is there a preferred way of doing it?
Example I like the sound of the flat keys. They sound more mellow whereas the sharp keys sound bright.
Or do we just alternate every other etc.
Also at which point do I switch. Examples
When I'm playing a 2-5-1 in C do I switch after the 1 to the next 2 which would be an Am.
Just asking the obvious.
-
Y'know, with limited practice time, I find even more challenging and musically useful than playing in all 12 keys following the cycle is playing through tunes and modulating to other keys each chorus, trying to be more random, but also setting up the key changes.
-
Any advice on common key moves that are done in jazz.
For example if I start in Bb should I jump to a specific key after or is it random.
Or should the next move be the 5 chords and as the 1.
Example
F7 = 5
So jump to the Fm7 as my next 1
-
Originally Posted by bako
-
Just playing devils advocate....
The twelve key thing is a myth. Look at the dissertation done on Charlie Parker, he certainly did not play all his signature lines in all keys, some only appear in a key or two. Usually the ones that fit the instrument idiomatically, who'd have thunk....
-
Originally Posted by vintagelove
-
i think matt guitar teacher has it right here
i get the sense that to do guitar you have to be on a bit of a pattern-trip - you have to dig the thing of unlocking the key to something that seems impossible to open up
i worked so hard in the first three years - easily averaging 10 hours a day (including 3 christmas days etc. etc.)
and i would have eureka! moments the whole time - and they were all about the way the neck really works
e.g. one day i discovered that it was really all 'revolving' around diagonal lines - so neither across nor up and down - but both at the same time
etc. etc. etc.
i've been doing three note inversions of i - iv - i over the last few days on guitar. very cool - wonderful way to digest one set of fundamental harmonic-neck-structures. i got my five year old a keyboard for christmas and i just played around on it for a few minutes and immediately pretty much nailed these sounds all over the keyboard in three or four keys - but its taken me ages to get them down all over the neck (four sets of three strings etc. etc.). that's insane. i haven't played any keyboard in over 25 years (no more than ten minutes anyway).
its basically because there's no simple way to go from low to high on the guitar - so no simple way to see that happening. and that is absolutely not the case with piano or sax or flute etc. etc.
-
Originally Posted by ilapsteel
That single page is hands down the BEST jazz instruction literature I've ever found. A guitar, a pick, a metronome and that single piece of paper = my jazz laboratory. I just spent a few days shedding Bouncin With Bud and Taking a Chance on Love through all keys, many many times. And then many many more times. Running heads - esp bop heads - through all keys over and over again really hammers that fretboard into your brain.
-
Originally Posted by coolvinny
Listen to horn players and they will cycle CoF, but then in common patterns like descending whole steps, or minor 3rd, and so on. My old bass improv teacher would come up with these long cycles to work on he was making up a symmetric key pattern like up a minor 3rd then up a whole step and because they were symmetric they would eventually cycle back around.
Also my teacher for one on one lessons has a pair of dice and a pieces of paper relating the twelve keys to the twelve numbers. First roll of dice is to see what key to play something in. Second roll of the dice is what position to play it on the guitar. That can create some real challenges.Last edited by docbop; 12-30-2015 at 02:25 PM.
-
Originally Posted by docbop
-
I dunno ... after many years of practice I doubt that random would offer any benefits. On guitar I do CoF (on piano I go up chromatically). As long as I hit every key I'm confident I'll internalize it and be able to apply it.
-
Just came across this of one of my favorites Chris Potter running the key on Cherkee.
Grant Green, What is This Thing
Yesterday, 01:59 PM in Ear Training, Transcribing & Reading