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  1. #1

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    Send message if you want to know it, not sure i can promote it here...
    Ken

    [No problem, Ken. Here's a link: http://bebopguitar.richiezellon.com/ ]
    Last edited by MarkRhodes; 11-30-2015 at 11:09 AM. Reason: link added by moderator

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2
    Anyone like the site?

  4. #3

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    Where have you been, 007?

    Welcome back! I will check the site out later.

  5. #4
    I'm still here kid

  6. #5
    Did anyone join this site?

  7. #6

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    What site are we talking about?
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  8. #7

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    Looks like a good site, I'm busy with Barry Greene at the moment, nice playing on the clip though.

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    What site are we talking about?
    Pm'd you mark

  10. #9
    Richie Zellon bebop Improv Series

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by 55bar View Post
    Pm'd you mark
    Thanks. I checked out the site but only briefly----crazy busy today. But I'll get back to it. Have you worked with this material?
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  12. #11
    I joined 8.13.15
    A new module opens monthly, so I'm on the 3rd module.
    When I say it's a comprehensive Jazz improv site, that's an understatement!!!!
    It's truly remarkable..the time and effort he put into the videos, PDF's is astounding to say the least.
    ken

  13. #12

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    I promised to check it out and after this thread popped up, I spent the 22 minutes listening to his video about the course. It looks very promising if one is doing the work - at least going by what he said and viewing the samples he gave of each portion of the course.

    The price is very reasonable, too.

    I wish I had the time....

  14. #13
    Yes for premium member its only $200 for the entire year!!!!
    That's crazy!

  15. #14

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    Does he have any sample lessons from the course posted anywhere? I watched his 22 min video and his 16 min video, they were both all talk, no lesson demo...

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarplayer007 View Post
    Yes for premium member its only $200 for the entire year!!!!
    That's crazy!
    That's a good price for a year's worth of lessons. Actually, a great price, but then, given the number of pros who teach online, it's really about the going rate. I'm not saying it's not worth it. I'm sure it is. But my bigger concern is with the time requirements. I manage to keep busy enough as it is! ;o)

    Could you give us an inkling of how the course works? Perhaps you could contrast it with Jimmy Bruno's approach.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  17. #16
    Yes, its a 1 year program with 9 Modules that open up monthly and each one build on the previous concepts learned.
    He teaches the 7 different fingerings, he uses the a 12 bar blues in the beginning then moves to more advanced blues with 2-5-1 in them. He has a Rhythm lab in each module, again building on the previous module. There are a total of like 28 Etudes that start out easily and get more and more complex with each Module.The etudes use the concepts your working on. He has something called Bebop Calisthenics which are amazing patterns showing how to approach the Arpeggios...again they start out basic and get more complex getting into enclosures and chromatic approaches. He has ear training in each module where you learn to sing certain parts of jazz grammar.Starting in Module 2 he has a video called Candy bars where he give you ready to use Bebop Phrases, in later modules he will give you phrases from some of the masters of bebop. The videos range from 3 minutes to 40 minutes depending on the topic. Everything is shown in create detail. For instance the bebop Calisthenics #1 has 12 patterns , he plays each one...Nothing is left for you to have to figure out.
    I used to belong to Bruno years ago as well as truefire, but I have never seen a site with such a logical progression to learn how to improv in the Bebop style.
    I'm just a member, I have nothing to do with this site, but I'm so excited I tell everyone you is learning Jazz to check it out. You can play less then the $200.00 I did the $200.00 because you get 6 skype lessons, but you don't really need them. So I think the other level is like $99
    Ken

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarplayer007 View Post
    Yes, its a 1 year program with 9 Modules that open up monthly and each one build on the previous concepts learned....
    Thanks, Ken. That's a nice breakdown.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  19. #18

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    The thing that struck me about his sales pitch is that he seems to say that his course breaks it down into small pieces that are manageable. This is very important in that one of my early problems was getting a manageable chunk of information. I always tried to go for too much and move too fast.


    I blame you people here on this forum.

    (Ha! Ha! Just kidding, just kidding )

    But now, I have a lot of information and approaches that I understand and can pull from, and I just need a good comprehensive course that leads me by the hand, holding me back and giving me clear goals so that I don't become my own worst enemy.

    If I ever get the time, I am tempted to give this a try. The concept guitarplayer 007 and the instructor describes sounds like its what I need.

  20. #19
    Yes this course is the best, it takes you step by step, basically he's teaching you Jazz Grammar...and the price is insane...I was paying much more on Truefire

  21. #20
    Yes this course is the best, it takes you step by step, basically he's teaching you Jazz Grammar along with everything else you need to become a great Jazz improvisor...and the price is insane...I was paying much more on Truefire

  22. #21
    One other thing I really like is it's easier to stay focused on what your working since these modules open up monthly you can't get ahead of yourself. My problem was always staying focused because the internet pulls you in so many different directions. This time I'm not doing anything else for the next months but this amazing course!!!!

  23. #22

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    There are actually a few great courses, I've belonged to this looks very comprehensive and reasonably priced. The only other ones I've look at and got a tremendous amount from are the artist works video exchange lessons, Mike Outram's electric campfire (just brilliant and if you haven't heard him YouTube him) and the Barry green, all are very different! I may give this one a go at some point in time too.

  24. #23
    Yes I belonged to Barry Green for a while, but he doesn't teach anything in a logical order, but he is a great player and has a lot to offer...This class is like taking a college course...Like I've said Ive tried most of them..Bruno, Artist Works, Barry Green, Mark Elf, Truefire ...so far nothing compares to this...The time he must have put into creating this is amazing...so many detailed videos
    He also uses something called Intervallic Script which I never heard of before.

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarplayer007 View Post
    Yes I belonged to Barry Green for a while, but he doesn't teach anything in a logical order, but he is a great player and has a lot to offer...This class is like taking a college course...Like I've said Ive tried most of them..Bruno, Artist Works, Barry Green, Mark Elf, Truefire ...so far nothing compares to this...The time he must have put into creating this is amazing...so many detailed videos
    He also uses something called Intervallic Script which I never heard of before.
    Unless my memory fails me, I believe he indicated that is was based on, or used in, college courses.

    You are making it hard to turn away GP007...!

  26. #25
    Yes he has taught at Several colleges I believe....I figure for $16.00 bucks a month and that's the premium member rate you can't beat it...And also offer 30 day money back guarantee. I know if you only want the online course without the 6 Skype lessons I think it's only $100
    ken

  27. #26
    He should give me a cut for getting people to his site...lol

  28. #27

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    Post a link so people can find it. There's nothing wrong with posting links to other sites. Happens all the time.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  29. #28

  30. #29

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    Another thing that is attractive to me is that he starts out with the Blues.

    I was working on Herb Ellis' Swing Blues but I kept wanting to play notes that were not the particular shape. It is a bit deflating when you want to play what is in your head but your hands are tied because you are supposed to be working with the particular shape. What if I want to slide up and go higher.

    I just do/did not have the discipline to keep working in the little boxes or clusters that I am given in my various Jazz instructional materials.

  31. #30
    Hi Alsoran,

    Well this starts out with basic 12 bar blues as the vehicle to learn you're jazz grammar, then i believe in Module 5 he introduces 2/5's into the mix and by the end Bird blues as well as other types of Jazzblues.
    I'm working on his ear training as we speak...each module has ear training.

  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasaco View Post
    Does he have any sample lessons from the course posted anywhere? I watched his 22 min video and his 16 min video, they were both all talk, no lesson demo...
    Still trying to find a link to an actual sample lesson. Does this exist anywhere? It should...
    There are lots of youtubes of him playing but we all know that some great players are not great teachers. I'd like to see an example or two of him teaching...

  33. #32
    I'm not sure...yiu can see some of them in preview. .. but I don't know of any examples. ...all I can tell you I've join probably 6 to 10 sites since 2009 and thus is by far the best lessons I've ever seen online. ..I know he has 30 day money back guarantee. .... and again you don't need to the Skype lessons he offers so I believe it's only $100. For 12 months...I personally would have paid alot more for this information and the way it's presented.
    Ken

  34. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasaco View Post
    Still trying to find a link to an actual sample lesson. Does this exist anywhere? It should...
    There are lots of youtubes of him playing but we all know that some great players are not great teachers. I'd like to see an example or two of him teaching...
    OK I'll serve as your guinea pig. I normally do not bother with these sort of courses anymore. Because at some point, we have enough knowledge and we just need to start working on tunes . Which is what I have been doing. However, a systematic course on bebop blues interests me a lot.

    So, I signed up for the $89 level. In hindsight, just buying the PDFs for $49 would have sufficed.

    I went ahead and watched everything from module one and everything from the crash course in Theory and chords lessons.

    Here's what I discovered-- I was really happy to learn that I pretty much already knew everything he presented ( except for his shorthand interval notation, but even then, everyone pretty much knows what is meant by "playing the #9 of the V chord to the b7 of the iii chord). Some of the lessons were very basic-- The rhythm section taught you how to count and eighth notes and tap your foot accordingly, equating the down stroke and upstroke with the downbeat and upbeat).

    the 7 step fingering system presented sounded elaborate and perhaps even obtuse. But it's not: it's simply a variation of the CAGED System in which all scales that start on the root note are played with the first second or fourth finger of the left-hand . Everyone already knows that bebop is the chromatic targeting of arpeggios. My only quibble with the whole thing is that, like many teachers, he refuses to use a conventional labeling system for the left and right hands (PIMA for right hand is not applicable here-seems to be pick only; left hand should be 1-2-3-4--he uses silly terms such as pinky and ring finger-- as someone who has never been married, I'm not exactly sure to this day what a ring finger is ).

    But even though I already knew everything presented with the first module- I would recommend at least the PDF version or the $89 version of this course. Here's why -- usually, on a general level, I have come across two types of teachers-- (1) Music teachers who understand and can teach music profoundly with the depth it requires but generally do not know anything about the guitar -- in fact, I was talking to a very qualified classical pianist who has numerous music students and also teaches guitar. I wanted to ask her some questions about comping, but I quickly realized she only knows how to play root position chords on the sixth and fifth string! (2) The "put your finger here, hammer and pull off crowd" who know the guitar very well, but not much about music as both an aural actuality and theoretical concept.

    Thus, even though I already knew almost everything in the first module, I was very impressed by the step-by-step way he presented it, with a clear and thorough musical foundation and it direct applicability and consequences for the guitar as a very unique instrument that presents its own particular technical issues. My impression is that He is a very serious and qualified music instructor who understands the guitar very profoundly Who presents the information in a very logical and step-by-step process.. The guy is right: the Internet is full of bits of information here, a link there a tidbit of theory over there, etc. he presents the information well Innoway it should be presented: logical, clear, step-by-step, in a very musical sort away .

    I think I will keep the course and just ask them if I can download all the modules at once. I think for most people here, that or just buying the PDFs will suffice.

    It's not going to steer me away from my main task: learning tunes. But I think it's an excellent course on bebop blues as it applies to the guitar.
    Navdeep Singh.

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by guitarplayer007 View Post
    Send message if you want to know it, not sure i can promote it here...
    Ken
    Yes, you can post the link here. It's easier for everyone that way. We all check out other sites.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  36. #35
    Hi NSJ,

    I don't know how long you've been playing jazz, but yes the first module is very basic...But I can assure you it gets a lot more complex...Again I'm only on Module 3 and there is a tremendous amount of great info already distilled. Your right he is a great teacher and you can see though his videos this took a long time to put together.He does state for more advanced students you can request all 9 modules be delivered at once. I also forgot to mention all the downloads he has for rhythm training and Etudes. The etudes you can download right into BAIB. Keep us posted if you get all modules open to you. He also has something called Bebop calisthenics which I believe starts in Module 2, I like those a lot as well.
    Thanks for your review
    ken

  37. #36

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    Here's a link: Bebop Guitar Improv Series |

    Here's a YouTube video of Richie playing "Satin Doll."



    And here's a video of him playing "Autumn Leaves."

    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  38. #37
    Btw its not just a Bebop blues course, but he uses bebop blues in the beginning to learn the basics...he does state the goal is to be able to improvise over a 32 measure standard.
    ken

  39. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ View Post
    OK I'll serve as your guinea pig. I normally do not bother with these sort of courses anymore. Because at some point, we have enough knowledge and we just need to start working on tunes . Which is what I have been doing. However, a systematic course on bebop blues interests me a lot.
    Thank you for the detailed breakdown of the bronze / silver / gold levels of membership. I will consider doing the bronze. I've spent a couple months back at Sonic Junction ($19.95 per) with Duke Robillard's lessons, which are all in the context of tunes. (Learn the chords / rhythm first, then the intro / head, then some soloing ideas---each tune is generally four lessons though some are 3 or 5, depending.) Anyway, I have enough of those sorts of tunes to continue refining for now. Something different would make a nice change of pace.

    However, what's this heptonic scale business?
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  40. #39

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    Let me just add the big take-home point of module one for me that I already knew but am glad that was reinforced--- something I learned over and over again when I was taking private lessons with my teacher. My teacher said over and over again, just like what this guy said in module one: "the scale, arpeggio and chord should all be immediately available and freely interchangeable at any given position".

    I'm certainly not qualified to be a teacher, but as a student of this music, there is no doubt in my mind that this is a huge concept that needs to be absorbed and grokked.

    This explains, in part, the wise and wherefores of his fingering system Well, it's not his fingering system, I imagone it was used by the Joe Pass' and Jimmy Raney's of the world. I believe it to be critically important in terms of overcoming the technical problems of the fingerboard in such a way that one can freely just play music after overcoming these fingerboard technical issues.

    "The scale, arpeggio, and chord to be freely available and interchangeable in any given position on the fingerboard".

    Also, I want to add how important it is to think about root movement as he presented it in module one . And how this critically relates to the fingerboard . Once again, a very critical musical concept that is made specific for the particular needs of our instrument . Thus, just by going up the circle of 4ths, we can move up the first 7 keys in the same position on the guitar (And not just keys, but chords arpeggios and scales ) and then move down only one portion on the guitar to get at the other 5 keys.

    I mean, I already knew this, but he explained it in a very clear and precise way.
    Navdeep Singh.

  41. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    Thank you for the detailed breakdown of the bronze / silver / gold levels of membership. I will consider doing the bronze. I've spent a couple months back at Sonic Junction ($19.95 per) with Duke Robillard's lessons, which are all in the context of tunes. (Learn the chords / rhythm first, then the intro / head, then some soloing ideas---each tune is generally four lessons though some are 3 or 5, depending.) Anyway, I have enough of those sorts of tunes to continue refining for now. Something different would make a nice change of pace.

    However, what's this heptonic scale business?
    All that means is that we don't start scales in the root position (1234567) with the third finger of the left-hand. That's what he's talking about: they always start with the 1st, 2nd and 4th finger-at least on the 6th or 5th string. ( Think of it this way: the two octave major scale Pattern across all strings can be played, for example-2-4, 1-2-4, 1-3-4, 1-3-4, 2-4, 1-2--that starts with the 2nd finger).

    it wouldn't be fair to elaborate the full system here, but I gave you a big foundational part of the concept. Which turns out to be something I already practice anyway .
    Navdeep Singh.

  42. #41
    I like the way he has you practice descending 5ths in arpeggios and the use of his graphic depiction cycle as well

  43. #42
    Great posts, NSJ.

    Thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ View Post
    All that means is that we don't start scales in the root position (1234567) with the third finger of the left-hand. That's what he's talking about: they always start with the 1st, 2nd and 4th finger-at least on the 6th or 5th string. ( Think of it this way: the two octave major scale Pattern across all strings can be played, for example-2-4, 1-2-4, 1-3-4, 1-3-4, 2-4, 1-2--that starts with the 2nd finger).

    it wouldn't be fair to elaborate the full system here, but I gave you a big foundational part of the concept. Which turns out to be something I already practice anyway .
    Are they shift-based CAGED? Or stretch fingerings?
    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ View Post
    "the scale, arpeggio and chord should all be immediately available and freely interchangeable at any given position".

    I'm certainly not qualified to be a teacher, but as a student of this music, there is no doubt in my mind that this is a huge concept that needs to be absorbed and grokked.

    This explains, in part, the wise and wherefores of his fingering system Well, it's not his fingering system, I imagone it was used by the Joe Pass' and Jimmy Raney's of the world. I believe it to be critically important in terms of overcoming the technical problems of the fingerboard in such a way that one can freely just play music after overcoming these fingerboard technical issues.
    Agree 100% with all of this. It irritates me to no end when people say that these considerations don't really matter . "Just go and play it anyway you see fit." Once you get into chromatic enclosures and such, the nonsystematic approach becomes profoundly frustrating, at least it did for me. It's a hurdle that horn players never deal with ." Any old way you can come up with", with no regard for how chords, arpeggios, and scales actually relate to each other just seems crazy to me.

    Thanks again. I'll have to check this out as well.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 11-06-2015 at 11:50 AM.

  44. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Great posts, NSJ.

    Thanks!
    Are they shift-based CAGED? Or stretch fingerings?

    Agree 100% with all of this. It irritates me to no end when people say that these considerations don't really matter . "Just go and play it anyway you see fit." Once you get into chromatic enclosures and such, the nonsystematic approach becomes profoundly frustrating, at least it did for me. It's a hurdle that horn players never deal with ." Any old way you can come up with", with no regard for how chords, arpeggios, and scales actually relate to each other just seems crazy to me.

    Thanks again. I'll have to check this out as well.
    I don't want to make it more complex than what it is, it's not that complex. Basically it's positional playing in which you can change positions briefly to reach certain notes. I.e., if you're playing scales starting with the first finger, you'll have to stretch one fret up , for example, to reach the major third on the six string. or, alternatively, stretch one fret down to play the M6 on the fourth string . Of course, he makes this point very simply.

    This was already taught to me before by my teacher --: you either stretch your first finger down one fret or fourth finger up One fret, as needed. This concept enabled you to play the chromatic scale more or less in one position, stretching as needed as indicated above . The overarching issue is left hand finger Independence that allows you to play what you need when you need it . Basically positional playing that overcomes the technical limitations of positional playing, with the ability to stretch as needed .

  45. #44
    I like this Intervallic scrip system he uses, it teaches you to see degrees instead of notes and makes transposing phases in any key in any fingering position a piece of cake. He also uses something called Rhythm templates where you right your own Etudes..but he supplies the rhythmic notation as well as which ones should be chord tones, neighboring tones or chromatic tones. That's the basic templates....of course as the modules open up the templates get more complex as well.
    Ken

  46. #45

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    Damn you all!

    This is not the type of thread to have when you have fools like me who are forever searching for that magic Jazz guitar course that will allow me to reach my musical dreams.

    Its just not fair.


  47. #46
    To Alsoran,


    I'm in the same boat, tried numerous ways to get to where I want to be..But it hasn't happened to my satisfaction...I truly believe this is what I've been looking for.
    Good luck
    ken

  48. #47

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    It's so great to see all the enthusiasm, if only these online courses were about when I was younger, the best I got was when my mum came back from the local record library every Saturday and brought me a selection of wes albums to listen to, she didn't even know who he was but thought his guitar looked cool. Needless to say I knew I only had them a week so I got busy listening and transcribing! Great way to focus

    Once I've got some time I'll definitely take a look at this, I'd be very interested to see/hear some clips of everyone's progress!

    Great thread 007, licence to trill.


    Mines a vodka martini shaken around a bit but not spilt

  49. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by NSJ View Post
    ... Basically it's positional playing in which you can change positions briefly to reach certain notes. I.e., if you're playing scales starting with the first finger, you'll have to stretch one fret up , for example, to reach the major third on the six string. or, alternatively, stretch one fret down to play the M6 on the fourth string ... you either stretch your first finger down one fret or fourth finger up One fret, as needed.
    Please tell me I won't have to give up all the work I did to internalize Jimmy Bruno's 5 fingerings... This course sounds great but I don't wanna start all over on the fingerings and learn a different system. Must I??

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasaco View Post
    Please tell me I won't have to give up all the work I did to internalize Jimmy Bruno's 5 fingerings... This course sounds great but I don't wanna start all over on the fingerings and learn a different system. Must I??
    I am just about desperate enough to allow myself to be lead from scratch and give up my previously conceived notions. Just about...

  51. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsoRan View Post
    I am just about desperate enough to allow myself to be lead from scratch and give up my previously conceived notions. Just about...
    My ex girlfriend once gave up all the cooking skills she had learned at college and made a pie from scratch..


    ...... I loved that dog