Found the best bebop online jazz improv course to date

[guitarplayer007]

Working on bebop cal #2 using the article Matt Warnock posted using the analogy of weight training

[jasaco]

Mea culpa. Richie did answer my question on his Forum and it turns out I had overlooked an Assignment PDF for Module 1. Just never noticed it! D'uh. My bad. It makes a lot more sense to me now and I'm on it!

[guitarplayer007]

Glad to hear it Jasaco!!!

[edh]

Are all nine modules included in the Silver, Gold and Platinum pay rates?

[AlsoRan]

Mea culpa. Richie did answer my question on his Forum and it turns out I had overlooked an Assignment PDF for Module 1. Just never noticed it! D'uh. My bad. It makes a lot more sense to me now and I'm on it!

At least you didn't jump to conclusions and damn the entire course before you investigated and sought answers. Peopl are so quick to call things "stupid" when all along, they were the numbnut and just did not understand.

I am glad this got resolved. Through the many posts in this thread, I am trying to get a good feel of what this course entails. Keep'em coming.

[jasaco]

Are all nine modules included in the Silver, Gold and Platinum pay rates?

Yes, that is my understanding but with the lowest-price version, you don't get the videos. So far, at least, that wouldn't be much of a loss, since (as I posted earlier), he is mainly just verbalizing the exact text in the handouts. However, I'm only about halfway through the first module and it's possible that the videos become more helpful later on...

[guitarplayer007]

Oh yes he shows every exercise in detail via videos, the course is so inexpensive compared with other online courses that not to get at least access to all the videos is crazy
Ken

[jazzgtrl4]

So people who have taken this course what do you think is the best route to go? or is it to early to tell? Gold? platinum? thanks

[guitarplayer007]

I did the Platinum..I mean for $200.00 for 12 months and you get 6 1/2 hour Skype lessons with Richie Zellon, you can't beat the price. But the Gold is really good as well, just no Skype Lessons...but with the all the instructional videos you probably don't need the Skype lessons anyway.
Ken

[jaco]

Wow... just read through all six pages of this thread. I had the privilege of studying privately with Richie several years ago when he was living in Orlando. I can't say enough about what a great teacher/player he is. He did tell me he had some private lessons with Pat Martino while he was at Berklee but I believe his teaching methodology is all his, developed over years of hard work. I look forward to checking the course out and very glad to see he is doing well.

[Jazzy Beatle]

This is an intensive college level course and Vol.2 is still in the making. Unless you are an active musician or advanced jazz guitarist who has the ability or necessary time to study the material at a high pace, chances are you won’t finish the whole course (in this case Vol.1) within one year.

I selected the Gold option for the added benefit of visual demonstration and it’s the right choice for me. Richie clearly states that it’s a long term commitment and you’ll be studying the program long after your membership expires. That’s why the PDFs and MP3s are transcriptions of the videos.

The videos demonstrate some of the information, but also one not contained within the books. The idea is to go through the program trying to assimilate as much as possible and gain good understanding of the concepts covered without worrying too much about having to master the playing facet of this program. The mastery may come many years after all is said and done. Just pick your option and enjoy the journey! To get all this info, at any of the available prices, is a real steal.

[guitarplayer007]

I agree Jazzy Beatle

[NSJ]

This is an intensive college level course and Vol.2 is still in the making. Unless you are an active musician or advanced jazz guitarist who has the ability or necessary time to study the material at a high pace, chances are you won’t finish the whole course (in this case Vol.1) within one year.

I selected the Gold option for the added benefit of visual demonstration and it’s the right choice for me. Richie clearly states that it’s a long term commitment and you’ll be studying the program long after your membership expires. That’s why the PDFs and MP3s are transcriptions of the videos.

The videos demonstrate some of the information, but also one not contained within the books. The idea is to go through the program trying to assimilate as much as possible and gain good understanding of the concepts covered without worrying too much about having to master the playing facet of this program. The mastery may come many years after all is said and done. Just pick your option and enjoy the journey! To get all this info, at any of the available prices, is a real steal.

Disagee with the initial assessment of it being some sort of intimidating, high level course that will take years -- and I'm just a schmo-amateur-student who has been playing for a few years (just before I joined this forum) , not an active-professional musician. I mean, there's a lesson later on about how to play a Dorian scale!

I will say that, if you don't know your fingerboard well, and struggle with music theory, then it will take much longer.

I do highly recommend this course, it is really well thought out from a musician and guitarist point of view ( these are conceived in the world at large as two mutually exclusive concepts ). But I'm generally suspicious of hyperbole.

lets just say it's a really worthwhile, well thought out class that will help ones playing in a concrete-nuts and bolts level. And just leave it at that.

there are no short cuts in music, and the best intital step one can take is find good private teacher.

[Duotone]

Disagee with the initial assessment of it being some sort of intimidating, high level course that will take years -- and I'm just a schmo-amateur-student who has been playing for a few years (just before I joined this forum) , not an active-professional musician. I mean, there's a lesson later on about how to play a Dorian scale!

I will say that, if you don't know your fingerboard well, and struggle with music theory, then it will take much longer.

I do highly recommend this course, it is really well thought out from a musician and guitarist point of view ( these are conceived in the world at large as two mutually exclusive concepts ). But I'm generally suspicious of hyperbole.

lets just say it's a really worthwhile, well thought out class that will help ones playing in a concrete-nuts and bolts level. And just leave it at that.

there are no short cuts in music, and the best intital step one can take is find good private teacher.

So would you recommend this course to someone who is completely new to jazz guitar?

[Jazzy Beatle]

If you’ve been playing for a few years and can play the 7 chords including their inversions, know where the notes are on the fretboard, and understand the basic theory, then you can tackle this course. Despite these prerequisites, mentioned by Richie himself, he does include some of the basic theory and chord studies videos you can and probably should watch before you hit the first module.

However, I do stand by my previous post. I’ve merely conveyed Richie’s message who’s undoubtedly more qualified than me to make such statement. I’m sure everyone will make their own assessment as it applies to them. Everyone’s entitled to their own opinion and we can disagree. Therefore I will only say that describing this course as just worthwhile, well thought out class that will help one’s playing on a concrete, nuts and bolts level is an understatement.

[NSJ]

So would you recommend this course to someone who is completely new to jazz guitar?

if I was completely new to just guitar, I would not initially ask, "how do I play bebop jazz blues ?" I would seek out a qualified and excellent teacher.

I actually did that, studied privately with a qualified teacher, and I found out that I learned a lot more and retained a lot more knowledge, because information was presented in a systematic way. My playing still trying to catch up with all that I have learned. When I started out with my teacher, I Learned how to play sixth and fifth string root 7th chords, how to play all the four note 7 chord drop 2 and 3 inversions across all three string sets systematically, I learned how to finger scales properly using the Chuck Wayne scale book, I learned how to read the treble clef, I learned about left and right hand coordination, I learned how to play simple songs like "autumn leaves", "i could write a book", "moonlight in Vermont", "but beautiful" etc . I learned how to comp with 7th chords and shell voicings , with the proper feel (Long-short), I learned how to play triads and their inversions everywhere on the neck.

I learned that music is not easy, there are no shortcuts, but it is totally worth it because music is the most beautiful thing in the world.

[guitarplayer007]

Has anyone tried the Rhythm Templates?

[coolvinny]

There is no perfect course for anyone, and generally private lessons are the way to go...but from what I've seen this is a good course. I signed up for the Platinum as 6 private lessons for not that much extra dough makes sense for me given I'm not studying with a private teacher these days. It's well laid out, the user-interface is pretty sharp, the course appears reasonably comprehensive, and he has some talent for teaching. The videos are good for when one is really tired and would otherwise kind of "gloss over" the PDF rather than really reading thoroughly.

As guitarists most of us did not study in a systematic manner like virtually all other instruments have done, and many of us came to the instrument late in life. This course seems like a good one for shoring up the foundation of our guitar playing. I'm no pro, but I'm no beginner either and I do get out and play a gig or two a month - even in the introductory chord lesson on minor keys, I picked up a couple voicings that were new to me and got me looking at things a bit differently.

For what it's worth, I don't think a reasonably experienced, serious non-pro player should be spending ALL their time on ANY single guitaristic "course". You're still going to want to do some transcribing, playing with vocabulary you already know, writing original lines, transposing tunes to other keys, running changes for tunes you know, learning new tunes (by ear), studying harmony, thinking about harmonic movement of tunes you know and different ways of "thinking" about them, playing with other people, doing some sight reading, working on your comping, ear training (I should do more of that one!), solo construction. You know...all the things that jazz musicians do.

[NSJ]

Has anyone tried the Rhythm Templates?

I just watched lesson 12 of Unit 2, "How to use Use the Rhythm Templates". This concept and idea is spot on brilliant and will compel the student to really use the essential information ("how to align an approach note with a chord tone") correctly in a way that will be musical. It gets to the heart of the matter in terms of applying the information in a practical and musical way.

Some may say this is too many rules and limitating and proscribing. But it seems to get to the heart of the matter.
I will always remember What Jimmy Rainey said, when he said he merely and humbly really wanted to copy Bird. And then a student came to him stating that he wanted to be "original ".

Jimmy shot back: "what do you mean you want to be a original ? You can't play".

The études and exercises are great, but this is the kind of stuff that will hopefully get me to really learn how to play it.

[guitarplayer007]

I just watched lesson 12 of Unit 2, "How to use Use the Rhythm Templates". This concept and idea is spot on brilliant and will compel the student to really use the essential information ("how to align an approach note with a chord tone") correctly in a way that will be musical. It gets to the heart of the matter in terms of applying the information in a practical and musical way.

Some may say this is too many rules and limitating and proscribing. But it seems to get to the heart of the matter.
I will always remember What Jimmy Rainey said, when he said he merely and humbly really wanted to copy Bird. And then a student came to him stating that he wanted to be "original ".

Jimmy shot back: "what do you mean you want to be a original ? You can't play".

The études and exercises are great, but this is the kind of stuff that will hopefully get me to really learn how to play it.

Yup the Rhythm Templates are a lot harder then they appear because you just don't want to copy whats on the Etudes. You want to come up with your own solo using the Templates.

[AlsoRan]

I am sad to say that in practicing some of his Mixolydian fingerings, I noticed he stretches his ring and pinky finger one fret at certain points. For instance, going from G to A in the first position, 6th string. I have never liked the way reaching over with my pink slides my ring finger over into the next fret.

Do you folks think that it is imperative to be able to make that stretch?

If so, I will work on it until the tendons stretch as they have with my other fingers.

( I posed this question via the sites forum; we will see what his response is)

[NSJ]

Ok thinking aloud with his material, I've worked out fingerings for not only the I7-IV7-V7 arpeggios (which he provided) and also ii-V subs for each chord (tritone sub of the secondary dominant preceded by its ii) chord ). The move to the V7 chord is one shift position up the neck (Richie's rules), but the move to the associated ii-V for the V7 arpeggio is a further two positions up the neck (my discovery, hasn't check what Richie says, but it works well for me.

In sum

the I7 and IV7 chords and their ii-V subs --no change in position
the V7 chord - one shift up the neck
the ii-V subs for the V7 chord -two shifts in position up the neck

[NSJ]

The 40 minute lesson in Module 3 on "Unprepared Approach Tones and Enclosures" that correlates with pp 48-50 of the text is HUGE.
--20 diatonic unprepared approaches
--15 chromatic unprepared approaches
--27 diatonic enclosures
--28 mixed diatonic and chromatic enclosures
--16 chromatic enclosures

N= 106


Of course I've practiced these concepts before and tried to implement them in playing. But I've never seen them presented and organized in such a systematic way to be internalized in the practice room. This is the gold mine right here, I'm gonna keep practicing this every day until it becomes second nature . When people speak of "internalization" of a language, it is stuff like this that they are referring to. Teachers always say, "practice enclosures" on a general level.

Well, here it is in the most concrete manner possible.

Going to the top of my daily practice routine, and staying there for the foreseeable future.

[guitarplayer007]

I told everyone this was the best online course for improv that I've ever seen .....I guess people are starting to believe
Ken

[57classic]

Uhm... Just to be sure: does this course teach the 7th chords including their inversions on the various stringsets and their underlying arpeggio's and scales? Or is this something one should have learned before starting this course?