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some bop on a Fender?
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12-01-2015 11:06 PM
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I went back to module one and wrote out a complete diatonic fingering system for each chord in the key, using his logic.
This process integrates, as he discussed, the vertical and horizontal aspects of the fingerboard . He did not write out a complete fingering system, so I filled in the gaps.
A double ** means to shift one position up.
I hope this formats correctly. I am going to practice the shit out of this until it becomes ingrained. It's pretty clear that this is what he means to see the fingerboard as one entity . I would practice each fingering, as he says a, not from the root, but from the highest available note to the lowest available note, from string one to string six .
NB. The ridiculous symmetry of the system, how each number increments by one for each chord .
Ii-V-I major or minor fingering Patterns
ii. V. I. iii. IV. vi. vii
1. 4. 7 2.**. 3. 5**. 6
2. 5** 1. 3. 4 6. 7**
3. 6. 2. 4. 5. 7. 1
4. 7. 3. 5**. 6. 1. 2**
5. ** 1. 4. 6. 7. 2.**. 3
6. 2. 5. 7. 1.*. 3. 4
7. 3. 6 1. 2. 4. 5*
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Ii-V-I major or minor fingering Patterns
ii. V. I. iii. IV. vi. vii
1. 4. 7 2.**. 3. 5**. 6
2. 5** 1. 3. 4 6. 7**
3. 6. 2. 4. 5. 7. 1
4. 7. 3. 5**. 6. 1. 2**
5. ** 1. 4. 6. 7. 2.**. 3
6. 2. 5. 7. 1.*. 3. 4
7. 3. 6 1. 2. 4. 5*
Sounds interesting, unfortunately I don't understand what each number is representing.
Clarification appreciated. Thanks.
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Basically a form of the caged system, 1-3 start on 6th string, 4-6 start on 5th string and 7 starts on 4th string. You only use fingers 1, 2 and 4 in the left hand (correlates directly with 1-3 and 4-6, with 7 played by finger 1.) . In order to play certain chords, you may have to shift one fret up.
Originally Posted by bako
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I'm studying Module 1, and I can't make out what you have written, Navdeep.
Last edited by Rob MacKillop; 12-02-2015 at 10:46 AM.
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As a word of caution, folks, I think I would watch giving out too much of his course's information. At some point, we might be doing him a disservice.
Just a cautionary note...
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How is everyone practicing Module 1? I have five days (who's counting?) until Module 2 opens up. I have a routine that goes something like this:
With metronome at silly slow speed (50-60 BPM), for each fingering:
Fingerings
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- Arp top to bottom
- Scale top to bottom
- Arp up then down
- Scale up then down
Trying to be efficient because I don't have a ton of practice time, I play quarter notes with all downstrokes and "sing" the interval number at pitch (ear training), tapping my foot on the quarter note per Rhythm Lab #1. Play each of those bullet points across the cycle to get all keys in. I play all four above items across the cycle in in one sitting, then make a checkmark, cycling back around when I've checked everything else on my list.
Exercises
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Play each preperatory excercise at around 80 BPM, through the cycle, again singing at pitch, or at least thinking, the interval number.
Rhythm Lab #1
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Play the entire block of rhythms as many times as I can in a 15 minute period.
Ear training
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Sing or play a random root, sing the intervals (1, 3, 5, 7) in no particular order. 15 minutes.
It's getting hard to stay focused, but I am going to keep running through my list until Module 2 opens up.Last edited by wzpgsr; 12-02-2015 at 11:03 AM.
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Watch the lesson on horizontal fingerings, where he talks about the seven different ways to play an F scale or Aroeggio. Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
What I presented was not found anywhere in the module, but basically extrapolated from his premises. How to get to every other scale /arpeggio in the key at each horizontal fingering .
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Actually, this entire conversation would be more appropriately held over at Richie's website. The Forum there is not very active and other paying students would benefit from our conversation, plus we would be free-er to cite specifics than is appropriate to do here. Originally Posted by AlsoRan
Might I suggest we abandon this thread and reconvene at Richie's Forum?
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I've seen the video, and understand him. I just don't understand you - no offence intended!
Let's take the start of what you wrote:
ii. V. I. iii. IV. vi. vii
1. 4. 7 2.**. 3. 5**. 6
I get the first part: In the key of G, for example, use the first pattern for the ii chord. Then at the same fret, 5th string, use the 4th pattern for the V chord. Then at the same fret, 4th string, use the 7th pattern for the I chord.
But then you do to the iii chord - why? Why iii IV vi vii?
And are you still playing Dom 7th arpeggios and mixolydian modes, or a different mode or major/minor/diminished for each chord of the key?
Please be patient with me if I seem stupid
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You are right. The thread has helped swell the membership of the course somewhat, but the topics now being discussed could be on the course forum. Originally Posted by jasaco
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Ok lets move!!!
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I created a thread on his forum. We can continue there. Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
I've seen the video, and understand him. I just don't understand you - no offence intended!
Let's take the start of what you wrote:
ii. V. I. iii. IV. vi. vii
1. 4. 7 2.**. 3. 5**. 6
I get the first part: In the key of G, for example, use the first pattern for the ii chord. Then at the same fret, 5th string, use the 4th pattern for the V chord. Then at the same fret, 4th string, use the 7th pattern for the I chord.
But then you do to the iii chord - why? Why iii IV vi vii?
And are you still playing Dom 7th arpeggios and mixolydian modes, or a different mode or major/minor/diminished for each chord of the key?
Please be patient with me if I seem stupid
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That sounds good. I'm just a couple days in, so I'm still getting used to the seven Mixolydian patterns, and also to playing # 1 and # 4 using index, ring, and pinky rather that what I did before (index, middle, pinky). One day at a time.... Originally Posted by wzpgsr
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I hope more of us spend some time on Richie's forum. It's not very active. If we're talking there, we need not worry about giving anything away because everyone there has paid to study Richie's method. Also, he checks the board and can clarify anything that's confusing to us (or point out that maybe we're taking something in a way he did not intend.) Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
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I created a thread under " Other" We could use that for everything
Ken
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Another fingering system?
I was, probably still am, interested but really another fingering system? Django and Wes would not get past first base on these online jazz schools. Is it really the best way to learn jazz?
Ahh well, back to transcribing on my own in my little booth.
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Please lose your smugness. The CAGED system, or fundamental aspects thereof, has been around forever, lots of greats have used it. It's not that big of a deal, as I've said here for the one hundredth time I think . Originally Posted by gggomez
And yes we're just a bunch of schmoes trying to learn to play jazz using a variety of means, methods of study, , working on songs, and playing with people , who and throwing out ideas online. Apparently we haven't discovered the magic bullet but you have . I know, I know that's terrible and is infinitely inferior to what you're doing . Remind me again which "territory" band you are apprecing with , is it with cHick Webb or Fletcher Henderson ?
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Think of it as CAGED-plus. (7 fingerings instead of 5.) Most of it would be familiar to you already, with just a tweek here and there. Originally Posted by gggomez
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From what I've heard described here, I think the biggest problem for me would be getting used to stretching from the fourth, rather than the first finger.
On the other hand, altering the original fingering template however does not particularly bother me; since I always can see (as Mark pointed out in above post) my original CAGED-type template. This goes for any type of system, such as 3 notes/ string Leavitt, etc. Or for that matter, no particular fingering system at all...just using chord inversions for reference points. I've worked on a 5-fingering system for long enough, that it is fairly deeply ingrained.
It just feels awkward to me to use the pinky for stretching after spending so much time grabbing outside notes with the first finger. I don't however think that it would take that long to make an adjustment.
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It was a b%$(#*ch for me to learn but after a few days, I found that I could leap the huge chasm that one fret distance represents. I still can't play it very fast. I won't be satisfied until I can use it in different scalar sequences - then I will know that I have truly mastered it. Originally Posted by srlank
For now, if I want to make a fast fun, I just revert back to my old fingering of stretching the index finger. Navdeep is probably right in that the best situation is to be able to do it both ways.
Still, I can't help but hear Joe Pass' words (and I think our man "Reg" also advises in one of his many posts) that he avoids any uncomfortable stretches in the chord shapes he uses. I assume he meant that to also apply to fingering. Also, I think Reg was pointing out in a past thread how many guitarists set themselves up for arthritis and tendon problems later in life by playing with too much tension and stretching in their fingers.
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I have been working with module 1 for a week or so- as an honest and actual truly rank beginner- I first charted out on paper the Circle of 5ths in all of his zones and have been practicing them like scales which in itself has been a great exercise in learning and hearing basic intervals and have been working my way through the chord exercises and mixolydian scale exercises he lays out. The fingerings are a stretch but nothing that should scare anyone - to be honest I unwittingly naturally first attempted them the way he says they should be played.
I can already see that there is a logic and system I can trust at play in his method that is already yielding results for me - I get this !!! and it is bringing together many things i have gathered in fragments from various sources over time into a coherent path to .......
great idea to make Richies forum active
Will
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“The First Lady of Bass“ Carol Kaye is a big advocate of healthy left hand fingering technique and promotes the “Thumb Pivot Technique” for both guitar and bass. Just pretend that the thumb is on a hinge and acts as an anchor point on the back of the neck. You can pivot the hand back (toward the headstock) or forward (toward the body) and then use the appropriate finger to fret the note you need. Here’s an exercise CK (or her teacher to be exact) recommended:
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...42209989213624
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Well, I just started with the 1, 4 and 5 patterns, but I wouldn't see much of a difference to the patterns of Reg. Reg's patterns are spanning five frets likewise. The #5 pattern of Richie is identical to the dorian pattern of Reg, #1 is congruent to Reg's aeolian pattern (with one note pinky third string shifted to index second string) and #4 is similar to Reg's phrygian pattern (again with one note pinky third string shifted to index second string).Still, I can't help but hear Joe Pass' words (and I think our man "Reg" also advises in one of his many posts) that he avoids any uncomfortable stretches in the chord shapes he uses. I assume he meant that to also apply to fingering. Also, I think Reg was pointing out in a past thread how many guitarists set themselves up for arthritis and tendon problems later in life by playing with too much tension and stretching in their fingers.
So, for me the strain on my hands is identical for both systems... With regard to the lower frets, I tend to move my hand in the 3 note sequences spanning 5 frets, rather than stretching my fingers more than the tendons on the back of my hand can bear. I guess that will prevent me from playing fast, but I doubt that I can reach a faster pace on guitar in this life--prefering ballads and slow blues anyway;-)
Robert
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Those exercises sound challenging. I'll have to try them out. I've read a fair bit of Carol's material and was familiar with the term "thumb pivot" but frankly, I never thought much about it. Originally Posted by Jazzy Beatle
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