Tenor Madness

**guitarvegas** · 01-24-2015, 05:02 PM

Hi my fellow jazz friends,

This is my first recording for 2015. I have not recorded anything in a while and have just been listening to Sonny Rollins and John Coltrane play Tenor Madness over and over again.

Now I don't take directly from them, I want to play my own expression and sound good doing it.

I woke up today after not playing a guitar since Tuesday. The first thing I did was sit down and record this 7 minute track. I would like you to listen and let me know what you think of my playing. I am pretty new with jazz stuff at this point but I really feel it is becoming my home.

**docbop** · 01-24-2015, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by guitarvegas

Now I don't take directly from them, I want to play my own expression and sound good doing it.

Why not, even if you transcribed and learned their solos note for note it's still going to come out as you!

**nick1994** · 01-24-2015, 07:16 PM

you've got to get the language down, the feel, the phrasing. You can only get that down from copying others.

**steves3972** · 01-25-2015, 07:58 AM

check out Emily Remler's Swing and Bebop guitar video on youtube. It has a good lesson on Bb blues and how to effectively solo on it. She also stresses the importance of good time and rhythm which is something we all need work on.

**guitarvegas** · 01-25-2015, 05:48 PM

but I know I have just recently heard Sonny Rollins describe playing and improvising on jazz in this way as he quoted..."Don't try to play the music, instead let the music play you". In other words, after you have practiced and rehearsed all of your theory homework you just throw it out the window when it comes time to get on stage and make the music come to life.

**guitarvegas** · 01-25-2015, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by steves3972

check out Emily Remler's Swing and Bebop guitar video on youtube. It has a good lesson on Bb blues and how to effectively solo on it. She also stresses the importance of good time and rhythm which is something we all need work on.

Checking her out now. And wow, she can really play!

**guitarvegas** · 01-25-2015, 06:36 PM

Originally Posted by guitarvegas

Checking her out now. And wow, she can really play!

What a tragic ending for her and so young. That sucks because she was so great.

**Reg** · 01-25-2015, 07:35 PM

Most words of wisdom and one liners are BS really. No one throws away anything unless it really sucks.

You need to start with basic Form... of everything. Each twelve bars has a form, your entire solo has a Form, basically everything with music has Form. One your aware of Form, the actual spatial time or space, you can begin to organize what you do with it.

You really can't just free wheel it... at least until you've trained your instincts to work.

**docbop** · 01-25-2015, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by guitarvegas

but I know I have just recently heard Sonny Rollins describe playing and improvising on jazz in this way as he quoted..."Don't try to play the music, instead let the music play you". In other words, after you have practiced and rehearsed all of your theory homework you just throw it out the window when it comes time to get on stage and make the music come to life.

Sonny Rollins when in high school was already playing with people like Jackie McLean, a couple years after high school was picking up recording sessions, and eight years after high school was playing with Miles Davis and Charlie Parker. So you have enough foundation and Jazz vocabulary to start getting on stage and letting whatever happens, happen.

**steves3972** · 01-25-2015, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by guitarvegas

Checking her out now. And wow, she can really play!

just do everything that she says and you'll become a better play in no time.

**mrblues** · 01-26-2015, 12:35 PM

Hi!

This is one of my fauvorite tunes.

Listen to this version:

the guy to the right is outstanding...

**Nabil B** · 01-26-2015, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Reg

Most words of wisdom and one liners are BS really. No one throws away anything unless it really sucks.

What the "throw it out the window" means IMO, is that you think about theory and concepts only in the woodshed, then forget all about it when it's time to play. The reasoning being that if you've worked on a concept well and long enough, you will eventually use it naturally (without having to think about it). That's how Sheryl Bailey explains it too, and this simple statement had a powerful and positive impact on my playing. Certainly not BS to me.

**Dexma** · 01-26-2015, 03:43 PM

Yeah. Without musical motives and structure in solo its just sounds like practicing...

This is a good start, you just have to listen what you play more and think about what to play next.

Make words, make sentences and then a story...

If I could always remember that in my playing, I would be damn good.

**mr. beaumont** · 01-26-2015, 04:34 PM

Well, it sounds like you have some facility on the instrument, so let's get right to the point.

I assume you're coming from a rock/blues background? I can kind of hear it in your choice of tone and vibrato...nothing wrong wit those, btw--jazz guitar doesn't have "one way" to sound. But what I'm hearing is a player who hasn't plyed over this type of swing much--and granted, playing over a lifeless track as opposed to real people is weird too, so double the weirdness, right?

Take another pass at it...lay back a little. Leave some space. Sing a line, then play it...don't even worry about sounding "jazz," just get into the feel of the rhythm, then you can worry about sounding jazz, addressing the changes, what have you. You gotta lock into that groove first, or even the right notes will sound wrong.

Once you can groove a blues solo like you're used to but in time with the track, then you can go back...look at what the strong notes are over each chord...come up with some preplanned ways of handling the turnaround, then mess with 'em until they're internalized and you can tweak them on the fly. You got a good start--keep at it.

**guitarvegas** · 01-27-2015, 12:25 AM

Thanks for all of the advice. Trying for the laid back approach and the "let it breathe" technique which is hard!!! We all have the tendency to want to keep playing. Maybe this one came out a bit better. It sure is different from the last. That I am certain about. I love jazz because I know I can't play the exact same thing twice and that excites me. When I used to spend my nights and days playing Hendrix I learned it note for note and that got stale after a while. I was after something fresh. Now I just need to grow with this music. I am glad to be on the journey.

So take a listen if you don't mind to this new take and let me know what you think.

Thanks!

**Reg** · 01-27-2015, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Professor Jones

What the "throw it out the window" means IMO, is that you think about theory and concepts only in the woodshed, then forget all about it when it's time to play. The reasoning being that if you've worked on a concept well and long enough, you will eventually use it naturally (without having to think about it). That's how Sheryl Bailey explains it too, and this simple statement had a powerful and positive impact on my playing. Certainly not BS to me.

That's a little more than a one liner... And can be great approach for performing...but it's not the only approach for playing.

**Reg** · 01-27-2015, 12:02 PM

Try another take... this time come up with two melodic statements.... make the first one the Call and the other one the Answer.

Start with each melodic statements... the call and the answer being 2 bars long. You don't need to fill up all the space and experiment with how the two lines work with and against each other

Try and use these two melodic statements for your organization when soloing

So your playing over a 12 bars blues....

Bars 1 and 2... play Call, (1st line)

Bars 3 and 4... play Answer, (2nd line)

Bars 5 and 6... play the call again

Bars 7 and 8... play the answer, maybe a little different

Bars 9 and 10... play the call again

Bars 11 and 12... play the answer... even more different

Now start over and begin to make even more changes... but stay within the basic form of Call and Answer

**Dexma** · 01-27-2015, 05:16 PM

There was some development in the solos. More ideas what you used over and over again which is always good home place for listener...

Keep on playing

**wildschwein** · 01-28-2015, 01:51 AM

Emily playing Tenor Madness on Australian TV in about '89. I love this. You can hear she starts a rhythmic motif in her first solo in single notes and recalls it and plays it more proficiently in octaves in her second solo:

**nick1994** · 01-28-2015, 02:57 AM

Originally Posted by wildschwein

Emily playing Tenor Madness on Australian TV in about '89. I love this. You can hear she starts a rhythmic motif in her first solo in single notes and recalls it and plays it more proficiently in octaves her second solo:

does anyone know who the drummer and bassist were?

**docbop** · 01-28-2015, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by nick1994

does anyone know who the drummer and bassist were?

When in Australia she was using pickup bands every gig and was said to be part of her depression. Her new record company just threw her out on the road by herself.

**Reg** · 01-28-2015, 08:55 PM

She showed up at Berklee right before I graduated... She was a sweet kid... but one of the 5 best guitarist in US... Still she did a lot to help Guitarist everywhere.

**KirkP** · 01-29-2015, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by guitarvegas

but I know I have just recently heard Sonny Rollins describe playing and improvising on jazz in this way as he quoted..."Don't try to play the music, instead let the music play you". In other words, after you have practiced and rehearsed all of your theory homework you just throw it out the window when it comes time to get on stage and make the music come to life.

If you are learning to speak a foreign language, you want to get to the point where as soon as you form a thought you are immediately able to express it without consciously thinking of all the things you had to work through to learn the language (vocabulary, tenses, sentence structure, etc.). Sonny Rollins definitely put in the work to get there with his music. A lot of that work required imitation of other great players. I don't think one can bypass that.