The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Where do you start in trying to learn to mix chords like this? It seems to be a mix of him playing chords that are melody voicings and chords that are the rhythm or backing chords. I can see some of the chords have the melody note on the 1st or 2nd string, while others seem to be a rhythm chord with only a couple of voices moving to keep the song moving.

    I know a lot of chords, and I am working on my single note lines but can someone tell me how to start learning to combine the two? Is there a magic book or DVD somewhere I can buy? Is it just a matter of knowing when he wanted to fill musical space with moving voices in rhythm chords as opposed to melodic voicings?

    I am at a lost on how to even approach this type of playing.




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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2
    Watching that first video and then rereading your question, I just had to laugh. Let me know when you find that magic book or DVD. I want one too. :-) That guy's a monster!

    I will say that if you start playing around with chord-melody, you can get to where you lead with the melody note and then fill in the chord. For me, that comes from just working on planting the melody-note-finger first, then the rest. With a little practice, it becomes second nature, kind of like planting the bass-note finger, and then adding the rest is pretty simple for most guitarists. Same thing backwards. You notice, for example, that most of the time he "happens" to land on the finger that plays the melody note in the chord. He just adds the other fingers. You learn to think ahead and see those kind of like planting the bass finger first.

    As far as the in-between fills and then getting back to the chords goes, I really think that a big thing is learning to hear and play on any eighth-note-triplet subdivision of any beat. (That's just to start. He ain't playing just triplet time base the whole time.) When you learn to hear and play those triplet polyrythms, you can make just about anything fit in time-wise while being systematic and making it sound purposeful. You can "move" the beat around and stay "in time" with the measure.

    If you play quarter-note triplets in place of would-be quarter notes, you pretty quickly end up with surplus "time" in the measure. You can fill-in with that surplus time and even steal a little from the next bar. I've never really seen this explained in a systematic way, although I know Bert Ligon does somewhat in one of his books (which I don't have). Maybe someone who knows more about how to talk about it better can explain.

    But look at a Real Book leadsheet for "Stardust", and then listen to every recording of it. Sounds like the performer is playing/singing straight eighths, but then they're ahead or behind in time. Those are usually triplets. Stardust is an incredible example. It'll make you crazy trying to reconcile what you're looking at with recordings. They're seriously messing with time on that tune. Nat King Cole's doing it (with sixteenth-note polyrythms I think) ...buys time at the beginning of one phrase, creating space. When you can land anywhere time-wise and make it work things really open up. Then, you're only limited to what you can actually play. (That's where I'm at.) :-)

    Sorry to geek out on this, but I've kind of been obsessing over it the last several months. I don't really have the playing content, but a lot of the time/fingering considerations can be addressed at lower skill levels as well. I think the assumption is that you basically have to just play at his level to start being able to integrate some of those other things, and I don't think that's necessarily true.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 01-15-2015 at 11:54 PM.

  4. #3

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    Where do you start in trying to learn to mix chords like this?
    Easier to say than do, but isn't this just the perfect kind of moment for transcribing.

  5. #4

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    Break it down to digestible parts and it isn't that big of deal physically. Musically however, is a different story.

    Darn that Dream melody first. Learn it inside and out. Hear how it was sung. Youtube it.

    Changes second.

    Simple chord melody arrangement third. Don't know where to start? Barry Greene's Mel Bay book or Mark Levine's Book adapted to guitar by Randy Vincent (Julian Lage's instructor).

    Fills? A million of them. Try to hear what's in your head first and foremost. Sing a fill, then transcribe the music in your head.

    Last...play a hundred, no, two hundred times.

    Be musical.

    It's all smoke and mirrors physically, the musical part is what were have to let go. Be human. A human will pick up on that vibe and you'll touch their hearts.

    Touch their hearts with what you got is a hundred times more musical than a bunch of shite...

  6. #5

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    I could write the magic book. It would have 7300 pages. And you would only be allowed to read 1 page per day. And on each page I would write the same 1 word: Practice! And in 20 years you would finish the book and if you had followed it and really understood it and applied it, you would realize that your starting to sound pretty damn good.

    This guy was born in 1970 and fell in love with the guitar at age 14. So he "finished my book" about 10 years ago!

  7. #6

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    nice!

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsoRan
    Where do you start in trying to learn to mix chords like this?
    It's simple just transcribe it by ear without looking at what he's doing. I know, easier said than done. But that's how the masters did it. Copy Van Iterson since you like him. Buy his records!

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsoRan
    Where do you start in trying to learn to mix chords like this? It seems to be a mix of him playing chords that are melody voicings and chords that are the rhythm or backing chords. I can see some of the chords have the melody note on the 1st or 2nd string, while others seem to be a rhythm chord with only a couple of voices moving to keep the song moving.

    I know a lot of chords, and I am working on my single note lines but can someone tell me how to start learning to combine the two? Is there a magic book or DVD somewhere I can buy? Is it just a matter of knowing when he wanted to fill musical space with moving voices in rhythm chords as opposed to melodic voicings?

    I am at a lost on how to even approach this type of playing.



    As you probably remember I transcribed the intro (until the band comes in) of the second clip. But I made one big mistake. I never fully digested the chord progression of the song. I never really understood what he was doing and why he was doing it.
    I am seriously thinking of transcribing the first clip but this time I would do it differently.
    Here's how I would approach it.
    For a start my goal would be to not just come away with the ability to parrot this piece for I know that he is actually improvising. I want to know how he is improvising because that's where the true knowledge is.
    • I would first download every version of this song I could find.I would listen until I knew how to sing the main melody.
    Just do it a bit every day. It becomes your main project. It may take a few weeks to become familiar with this piece.
    You're going to own this song. Why? Because it's simple. The chords are easy and there aren't that many.
    You're going to totally demystify it. Break it down into little sections that you can dominate. Strip it of it's power over you. Master the chords.
    • Now play the chords and learn them off by heart. Till you no longer need to look. Till you can say them in a row. Till you see how simple they are in a row. Just chords to be remembered. Run them through your head when you are away from the instrument
    • If you don't have it then go and and buy Transcribe. You will use it for the rest of your life.
    • Download the video and open it in Transcribe.
    • Play the chords you have learned from whatever source you got them along with the video. Even if they are not his inversions. Just play along with him until you can get all the way through. Just strum one chord per bar or whatever.
    You are just learning and internalising the progression. Now play it all over the neck. Completely demystify it and OWN it. Take away it's power over you. You should know it so well that you actually get bored with it.
    • Play the melody along with the video. Slow it down if you like. That's a great feature of transcribe.
    • Find out or work out what scales or modes relate to each chord. If you can get to the point of playing along slowly through the song then that's great. Just running the scales or modes and arps. You should be able to look at the chord and say "he should be using something like this scale or this arp or this mode"
    • Next thing is to learn how to put markers into transcribe. It's simple. Just read the manual.
    • Only take the first 4 or 8 bars and put markers exactly where his chord changes are,
    • Name the chord changes so you can see them in transcribe. Now you have little chunks to work on.
    • Work out what he is playing. This is the transcribing part. Take only the first chord. Do it one note at a time. Look at his hands and copy them. Transcribe allows you to highlight a section and repeat it until you get it.
    • If you can notate music then write it down so you can't forget it. If not then commit it to memory.
    Remember one chord at a time. Don't overwhelm yourself.
    • Study what he has done with that chord. He may be subbing a chord or playing some notes but you must understand WHY he did it. What scale or mode or arp did he use. Can I apply this to another tune? (yes of course you can)If you understand that then YOU can do it on another tune.
    • Move on to the next chord and repeat the process.

    I would spend 6 months on this as a pet project. Contained within this one piece is a wealth of knowledge. It's like a little gold mine or the answer to your dreams just sitting in front of you. It's there for the taking if you can figure out a method for you that allows you to pull it apart piece by piece and digest it. Make it yours. If you don't understand something then find the answer, here or elsewhere.
    If it becomes too hard then pick an easier piece and just destroy it. Take a simple Wes tune and completely digest it.

    Other people may approach it differently but this way works for me.
    Good luck.

  10. #9

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    Though the guy has very good technique and musicality, I do not see that he does something really special about texture... this is texture, it is how you put out musical ideas to real sound (in chords, lines, arpeggios, strikes, counterpoints etc.)

    I think the greatest obstacle may be in thinking

    Just do not think in chorsd and lines as separte musical entities... they just represent the same musical ideas in different means...

    No special books about it (nowdays people are used to a method book for any issue)... only experience, learning, knowledge of fretboard, harmony, fluid technique

    When I was a kid playing classical guitar - guys playing some songs in the street where I lived often asked: ok.. so how many chords do you know now? ... and I just could not understand the question... because I never learned chords.. I just knew all of them, because I just knew where they came from. (I mean chords not fliude shape changes!)

    There is no 'chord library' - only shapes may be somehow organized in this way.

    I think this comes from the point that guitar is complex about fingering... so self-taught players tend to ascociate chord as an abstract musical sound with certain shape... that's why I often push beginners to study harmony on keyborad also - not play piano - just studiy harmony, voicing lines how they work out on the keyborad... keys show it much better than frets - and it makes harmonic and melodic thinking much less delpendent on guitaristic techincal issues.

    Frankly when I play guitar I often see keyboard behind - I do not think about it - it worls mechanically - but I think it works because I know immediately every note on the fretborad from my classical experience...
    Last edited by Jonah; 01-16-2015 at 08:57 AM.

  11. #10

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    Hey Jonah, Maybe you don't know that MVI is one of the most highly respected and accomplished jazz guitar players playing today. It's hard to name many guitar players who have so well internalized traditional jazz guitar and play it with such skill. Swing/language/taste/musicality/relaxed... MVI is great. I could see if you prefer a more modern approach, or like to hear some rock influence or something, but you mention in another thread you like Peter Bernstein: ask PB sometime what he thinks of MVI's use of texture.

    I get that this is the internet/taste is personal/yada yada, but my guess is if you like mainstream jazz guitar and you get some of MVIs recordings and listen carefully, you'll change your mind.

  12. #11

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    I get that this is the internet/taste is personal/yada yada, but my guess is if you like mainstream jazz guitar and you get some of MVIs recordings and listen carefully, you'll change your mind.
    For what? Your answer is really a bit strange for me, but maybe it is my fault

    Maybe I was not clear... but did I ever critisize Martijn? I answered to the TO, he said about Martijn's pllaying:

    t seems to be a mix of him playing chords that are melody voicings and chords that are the rhythm or backing chords. I can see some of the chords have the melody note on the 1st or 2nd string, while others seem to be a rhythm chord with only a couple of voices moving to keep the song moving.
    i do not see anything special for guitar playing in this approach discrtiption (it does not mean I do not see anything special in Martijn's playing.. I do not discuss him here at all).
    Last edited by Jonah; 01-16-2015 at 09:02 AM.

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by TimPeak
    Don't know where to start? Barry Greene's Mel Bay book or Mark Levine's Book adapted to guitar by Randy Vincent (Julian Lage's instructor).
    Just tried to find the Vincent book at Amazon; no luck. Can you steer me to it, please?
    Thx

  14. #13

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    Seems to be this one - no?

    http://www.amazon.com/Jazz-Guitar-Voicings-Vol-1-Drop/dp/1883217644/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1421416136&sr=8-2&keywords=Randy+Vincent&pebp=1421416139495&peasin =1883217644


  15. #14

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    Dunno. I saw that but did Mark Levine write a book about "Drop 2" voicings? I was hoping it was a guitar version of Mark's comprehensive "Jazz Theory" book, with the examples pulled from guitar recordings rather than piano recordings... but maybe this is it? TimPeak, is this what you meant?

  16. #15

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    I saw that but did Mark Levine write a book about "Drop 2" voicings?
    No but by the content it seems to be it... modified for guitar.
    TimPeak?

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah
    For what? Your answer is really a bit strange for me, but maybe it is my fault

    Maybe I was not clear... but did I ever critisize Martijn? I answered to the TO, he said about Martijn's pllaying:



    i do not see anything special for guitar playing in this approach discrtiption (it does not mean I do not see anything special in Martijn's playing.. I do not discuss him here at all).
    Sorry, forget it. I had one of these moments
    http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/duty_calls.png

  18. #17

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    It's not as difficult as getting his beautiful tone.

    As I usually do, I have different approach ... it's not just about lots of practice, and transcribing etc... if you don't understand what your playing, or are able to use specific melodic and harmonic applications... all your ever going to do is practice a lot of tunes.

    The tune has very simple harmonic targets, and Martin has his style of approaching those targets.

    You need to be able to hear and understand the harmonic approach...

    Remember... the lead line or melody is always heard first and is the basic reference for performance. And then your creating chord patterns and melodic applications of those chord patterns which support that lead line or melody.

    So just get the first four bars down... then the next etc... You'll develop a harmonic language which will represent what you hear or want. You'll then be able to apply versions of your language to any tune.

    Fmin. Martijn usually always use Melodic minor as back drop for his harmonic playing.

    So Fmin becomes Fmm... and also The related II- of Bb9#11.
    So you have F as your target and somewhat reference.
    That F can be the related II- of Bb9#11 for 1st bar beats 3 and 4.

    second bar has bVI to V7 chord. So each of those chords can also become targets... Play Db13sus to Db13#11 then use C7altered and Gb7#11 for the V7 chord, again The C7 can become a tonal target.

    So you have F melodic min. in bar 1 going to Ab melodic minor, to Db melodic min. in bar two.

    Part of the trick is how you modal interchange between these Melodic minor targets and other harmonic references also going on.

    Tonal targets can related to whats before or whats after... but what's important is they can have harmonic independence.
    That target can use it's own rules...

    Like I said Martijn uses MM modal interchange... a lot. Different usage than most american players. NO good or bad, just more euro in application. Not much blues etc...
    So anyway, Rhythm and articulations, rubato etc... all become tools to perform this harmonic language, like I said most of Martijn's relate to Melodic minor.

  19. #18

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    http://www.amazon.com/Jazz-Guitar-Vo.../dp/1883217644

    This is the one.

    Barry Greene's Mel Bay book is a great foundation for chord melody. No tabs, but chord diagrams are given above chord notations. Barry goes into everything, not just Drop 2 like Randy concentrates on in his book.

    As on online student of Barry Greene I find it helpful to have this Mel Bay book handy when studying his arrangements. Great devices from which with a lot of practice you can be musical and start to arrange your own songs.

    http://www.amazon.com/Solo-Jazz-Guit...ry+greene+solo


    Barry Harris (piano player) has a series of videos on youtube and a DVD available for purchase regarding the "6th Diminished Scale" and how to harmonize it to create movement. See the video below and read a review of Barry Harris' Harmonic Method for Guitar here:

    In the end, always think movement. Jazz is movement. Momentum, momentum, momentum.

    I heard someone say it like this: "the changes are destinations. you get on a plane, buckle up, fly to one chord, get out, visit, then get back on the plane, buckle up and fly to another chord, get off the plane, visit, then back to the plane to fly to next chord..." That is static no movement noise.

    You'll bore people to death even if you can shred.

    What great composers/improvisers do, be it Bach or Bill Evans, is they walk from destination to destination. Music is movement. Even if it's silly simple (Monk). As long as it moves and breathes and tells a story along the way, you'll be fine.

    Do this in your solos, comping and arranging and your phone won't stop ringing.


  20. #19

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    http://www.jazzand.com/Rick_Stone/Ar...im%20Scale.pdf

    Great article by Rick Stone on Barry Harris' approach to harmonic movement.
    Last edited by TimPeak; 01-16-2015 at 12:10 PM.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    It's not as difficult as getting his beautiful tone.

    As I usually do, I have different approach ... it's not just about lots of practice, and transcribing etc... if you don't understand what your playing, or are able to use specific melodic and harmonic applications... all your ever going to do is practice a lot of tunes.

    The tune has very simple harmonic targets, and Martin has his style of approaching those targets.

    You need to be able to hear and understand the harmonic approach...

    Remember... the lead line or melody is always heard first and is the basic reference for performance. And then your creating chord patterns and melodic applications of those chord patterns which support that lead line or melody.

    So just get the first four bars down... then the next etc... You'll develop a harmonic language which will represent what you hear or want. You'll then be able to apply versions of your language to any tune.

    Fmin. Martijn usually always use Melodic minor as back drop for his harmonic playing.

    So Fmin becomes Fmm... and also The related II- of Bb9#11.
    So you have F as your target and somewhat reference.
    That F can be the related II- of Bb9#11 for 1st bar beats 3 and 4.

    second bar has bVI to V7 chord. So each of those chords can also become targets... Play Db13sus to Db13#11 then use C7altered and Gb7#11 for the V7 chord, again The C7 can become a tonal target.

    So you have F melodic min. in bar 1 going to Ab melodic minor, to Db melodic min. in bar two.

    Part of the trick is how you modal interchange between these Melodic minor targets and other harmonic references also going on.

    Tonal targets can related to whats before or whats after... but what's important is they can have harmonic independence.
    That target can use it's own rules...

    Like I said Martijn uses MM modal interchange... a lot. Different usage than most american players. NO good or bad, just more euro in application. Not much blues etc...
    So anyway, Rhythm and articulations, rubato etc... all become tools to perform this harmonic language, like I said most of Martijn's relate to Melodic minor.
    this is a very important post.

    i think transcribing and learning tunes is extremely important, but you need more than that.

  22. #21

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    OK....

    So far, I am keying in on four of the things that I like about Martijn's performances above that you folks have identified:

    1) The ability to play that melody note and back it up with other notes (a chord or chord fragment) on top of the melody note in a way that sounds good, as well as play the rhythmic subdivisions and still know one's place in the song (thanks Matt).

    2) The modal interchange (as Reg has tried for years to pass on to us) which involves things like playing C Major, then C minor and such (this is a much simplified modal interchange example), to the effect that only a note or two actually moves, yet contributes greatly to the improvisation, along with using it to target chords (thanks, Reg). That modal interchange is critical in this type of improvisation, in my humble opinion.

    3) The rhythm fills in the space between the melody in which the chords keep the momentum of the song moving forward and the fact that you just can never know to many fills (Thanks, Tim Peak)

    4) The "singing" quality of his music that kind of lets you know its coming from inside, and that he has this song internalized inside and out to where he can take chances with the rhythm and the chords, and still remain within the harmony of the song, thereby adding interest and beauty (Thanks Jonah and Philco).

    I can see there is no shortcut. To be this good, you really have to have the song internalized. I checked out the Transcribe! website at its dealer, seventhstring. It is very interesting. I usually record songs on my Boss MicroBR and slow it down using its MP3 slowdown feature but it looks like that Transcribe! gives you so much more and sounds better when you slow things down. Thanks again, Philco.

  23. #22

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    Also, let me add that I can see the importance of transcribing. Even going the lazier route and looking at music others have transcribed, I can see some of the movement I hear in Martijn. My Robert Yelin books have what I would call an overabundance of chord "movements" in them.

    I can identify instances in which he strings 3 or 4 chords together of the same root and quality, such as D5, Dm9, Dm7, Dm11, Dm7, and then a little chromaticism going to Dbm7 and back to Dm7. These are all different iterations of Dm7 with the melody note on top.

    Another example is a run of Cm9add4, Cm7add4, Cm9add4, Cm7add4, all playing the melody.

    I don't see much modal interchange in the Yelin songs I have looked at so far, just chords of the same basic quality and root. I will start looking for this more in my sheet music to get a better feel for it.

    I think I am off and running.

  24. #23

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    There's tendency for guitarists to think they are playing melody "over chords". This is probably because most guitarists start by learning chords and never quite shake the mind-set that melody is subordinate to chords. It helped me to realize that the accompaniment (bass, chords, lower voices, whatever) should nearly always be subordinate to the melody. Fit them in where you can, but let nothing get in the way of the melody.

    An old Martin Taylor instructional video:

  25. #24

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    Don't want to be a gushing fool but I just want to say that I love this forum.

    This threads is a perfect example of what I love about it. A gold mine of information. The thought processes of different players. Like minded people and those with differing opinions all offering something to learn from.

    Reg, your post is so helpful and your opening sentence had me saying out loud " brother, you speak the truth"

  26. #25

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    Just for information, an interview by our friend Dutchbopper :

    I remember reading somewhere that you have been working hard on your trio playing over the last years and that it has taken you some time to feel confident in that format. How did you work on this?


    I have practiced chordal improvisation quite a lot lately. It’s different from a prepared chord melody. Before that I was focused more on single note improvisation. It took me a while to integrate chordal improvisations into my playing in such a way that I was more or less satisfied about them. I really searched for the right balance between those two and tried to make the transition from one into the other sound as natural as possible. But I’ll always be frustrated about the fact that I can’t comp myself like a piano player can.