The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by nado64
    Just for information, an interview by our friend Dutchbopper :

    I remember reading somewhere that you have been working hard on your trio playing over the last years and that it has taken you some time to feel confident in that format. How did you work on this?


    I have practiced chordal improvisation quite a lot lately. It’s different from a prepared chord melody. Before that I was focused more on single note improvisation. It took me a while to integrate chordal improvisations into my playing in such a way that I was more or less satisfied about them. I really searched for the right balance between those two and tried to make the transition from one into the other sound as natural as possible. But I’ll always be frustrated about the fact that I can’t comp myself like a piano player can.
    Very insightful for a great player such as this to say these things - especially about not being able to comp like a piano player. This lets me know that I will only be able to go just so far in copying a Bill Evans, for instance with his comping.\

    Thanks.

    That Dutchbopper has been a modern-day prophet of Jazz in his own right, spreading the word to both believers and non-believers. He has turned me on to different players with different ways of playing Jazz and it has been edifying and satisfying to say the least.
    Last edited by AlsoRan; 01-17-2015 at 07:46 AM. Reason: added clarification.

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  3. #27

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    I can really see what KIRKP and matt.guitar.teacher are saying about the melody and harmony being one. I especially am going to focus on playing the melody such that I land on a note that will allow me to add or play it as part of a chord.
    I first noticed this part of guitar technique when I viewed Vic Juris in this thread posted, a few years ago by Cosmic Gumbo I believe.

    Vic Juris


    Yes, I will really focus on this technique and approach of visualizing the notes and the chords as being the same thing. I have been aware of this for awhile but it took this thread and another by a new member to really bring this idea back to the forefront of my thinking.

    I am finding that I am as moved, entertained, and impressed by great chord melody as I am by my first love - the fiery, bebop, technically challenging but beautiful single-line improvisations of men like Wes Montgomery and Pat Martino (and others).

  4. #28

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    Hey AlsoRan... There are many approaches for solo guitar or chordal improv... melody and chords don't need to be one or the same thing, they can be contrapuntal or separate. What you might end up with is a collection of structural forms that you can apply to different tunes.

    The structural forms are somewhat preplanned templates that help you have a shape for your chordal improv. There is always open sections and possibilities for change... but you'll have... again a preplanned shape for your performance.

    Simple elements, like modal interchange to min from maj or visa version. modulating up or down 3rd, somewhat like Bill Evans did, Time changes etc... unlimited choices. You just develop a few organized arrangements that you can drop on any tune.

    I'm not sure you understand Modal Interchange, it's different from borrowing. One of the difference is the functional or chordal movement that results from the application... Modal Interchange can reflect the targets and their modal implications as compared to the original tonal reference. Those chord color or quality notes can have different references.

    Another detail... D-7 going to D-11 etc... really isn't chordal movement... just different voicings or melodic movement. Chordal movement usually implies root changes or references. D-7 to E-7 or D-7 to Dma7.

    The difficulty of solo chordal improv... it really requires all your musical skills.

    See how many different ways you can play the 1st four bars of You Don't K W L I... Not rehearsed... how many ways you can perform the melody with the changes now. You can play with the melody and changes etc... See if you can have 5 or 6 different versions...

  5. #29

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    So far, I am keying in on four of the things that I like about Martijn's performances above that you folks have identified:

    1) The ability to play that melody note and back it up with other notes (a chord or chord fragment) on top of the melody note in a way that sounds good, as well as play the rhythmic subdivisions and still know one's place in the song (thanks Matt).
    I did not mean to sound arrogant... sorry if i did.

    What was surprising for me that you initial post you pointed out in Martijn's playing the features that practicaly any accomplished solo guitar player has - take Joes Pass, Barney Kessel, Kenny Burrell, Jimmy Bruno, Peter Bernstein, Ted Greene and many others when they play alone they all mix chords and lines and play comping chords to gether with melody, make moving in harmony changes, play long lines and outline harmony knowing where they are etc. ... each in his own way they do it...

    Check this please for example. He also does it...


  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    Hey AlsoRan... There are many approaches for solo guitar or chordal improv... melody and chords don't need to be one or the same thing, they can be contrapuntal or separate. What you might end up with is a collection of structural forms that you can apply to different tunes.

    The structural forms are somewhat preplanned templates that help you have a shape for your chordal improv. There is always open sections and possibilities for change... but you'll have... again a preplanned shape for your performance.

    Simple elements, like modal interchange to min from maj or visa version. modulating up or down 3rd, somewhat like Bill Evans did, Time changes etc... unlimited choices. You just develop a few organized arrangements that you can drop on any tune.

    I'm not sure you understand Modal Interchange, it's different from borrowing. One of the difference is the functional or chordal movement that results from the application... Modal Interchange can reflect the targets and their modal implications as compared to the original tonal reference. Those chord color or quality notes can have different references.

    Another detail... D-7 going to D-11 etc... really isn't chordal movement... just different voicings or melodic movement. Chordal movement usually implies root changes or references. D-7 to E-7 or D-7 to Dma7.

    The difficulty of solo chordal improv... it really requires all your musical skills.

    See how many different ways you can play the 1st four bars of You Don't K W L I... Not rehearsed... how many ways you can perform the melody with the changes now. You can play with the melody and changes etc... See if you can have 5 or 6 different versions...
    Thanks for taking the time to respond, Reg.

    I do understand that D7, D11, etc.. is just different voicings in the dominant family using the same root, and it can reference for instance, the G Major Scale, since it is the chord based on the fifth. While modal interchange would take that D7 and maybe go to Dmin, which would reference for instance C Major or BbMajor scales.

    I am now ready to explore this modal interchange idea to see where I am going wrong. You have explained it well in many posts, but I just was not ready for it.

    Your many posts on the topic provide a ready reference on how it is used and I will look through them soon.

    For now, I am just happy to hear the word "preplanned" somewhere in Jazz improvisation, with respect to little personal ways to approach a chord, and I take that to heart. I have been slowly adding them to my right now very limited little bag of tricks.

  7. #31

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    Ha! Ha! I have a sidebar if I may interject...

    I read through several modal interchange threads as well as articles from other websites and I found it amusing that there is some argument among Jazz intelligentsia as to when one is using modal interchange, parallel modes, secondary dominants, etc..

    We have to be careful not to get caught up with terminology and pedagogy. The most important thing, IMHO, is to know what someone is doing - regardless of what you call it.

    I get that.

    Still, I appreciate the pearls of wisdom and I understand my present development and how they pertain to it. Some will be short term goals, others long term.

    Luckily, I am motivated by these wonderful artists and others to stay the course.

    Back to the woodshed with the advice you have given, supplemented with books. Now I have to make this stuff sound good!

  8. #32

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    Modal interchange is a reference for different harmonic movement.

    When I modal Interchange Fmin to Fmm, what's different is how I use the Modal Character of Fmm. The organization of how I create chordal movement does not have to be based on Maj/Min functional harmony.... V7 chords don't need to have dominant resolution. Instead I use the modal organization based on Fmm for chordal movement.

    Parallel modal applications generally still have functional harmony as organization for chordal movement. As do Borrowed, Dominant, secondary Dom. and extended dom. as with any of standard Subs or related chords, or chord patterns.

    The difficulty is generally they're going on the same time. Which is why using targets for organization helps organize any of the different relationships you choose or develop.

    I can use Dominant chords as tonal, sub dominant or dominant... I don't have to use the tritone as all controlling power.

    Think of playing any standard in a blues style... generally most call what doesn't fit in their box... embellishments, chromatic, passing, approach.... anything but another set of buttons.

    You don't need to play or hear in this style or approach... but it's nice to have the option. You asked.

  9. #33

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    I got it Reg!

    We are all busy and I appreciate your breakdown. More importantly, I understand, especially about not having to use the dominants to resolve. That's huge!

    Click!!

  10. #34
    destinytot Guest
    Where do you start in trying to learn to mix chords like this? It seems to be a mix of him playing chords that are melody voicings and chords that are the rhythm or backing chords.
    My two cents says a good place to start is by slowly noodling well-chosen* standards in two-part counterpoint on a piano/keyboard. This brings a practical understanding of melodic and harmonic intervals which can then be transferred to the guitar.

    Moreover, it establishes an order of playing/practising based on the principle of 'music first' - i.e. the sending of music via the body through an instrument - and not the other way round.

    *songs/melodies that 'speak' to you
    Last edited by destinytot; 02-08-2015 at 08:40 AM.

  11. #35

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    I agree with destinytot's approach with arranging standards. Here I'm not talking about a finished, classical-style arrangement, but rather a blueprint of the song's structure, rhythm, melody, and harmony. When I create arrangements from YT of songs for which I cannot find a Real Book type sheet music, I determine the tempo of the YT video, set that up in my Sibelius software with key signature and a melody and guitar accompaniment staves, and play along in real time focusing on the bass root and fifth with the left hand and the melody with the right. Once I've created my song 'blueprint', I can rehearse the midi file and elaborate the transcription if I wish as far as necessary. Because the performance is ultimately always "improvised" off this blueprint, I can make tempo changes temporarily to elaborate on a second solo guitar part. For example I can voice the melody as vibes or strings, to work on a solo guitar part beyond restating the melody.

    One funny thing is that in some ways I actually prefer to keep a bare guitar accompaniment, as it leaves a more open improvisatory harmonic space to experiment. One nice thing is that this is far more stimulating to me than just a metronome, though I use those as well.

    I'm actually working today on But Beautiful. I recorded yesterday in G, in which the melody begins to challenge my tenor vocal range. So I transposed my existing arrangement in to E with click or two and rehearsed it last night. Hopefully I can finish a recording today to upload to YT and / or soundcloud. I hope some of the recording will aspire to sound as complete as Martijn, but ...whom I kidding! The guy is real good.

    Jay
    Last edited by targuit; 02-08-2015 at 11:59 AM.

  12. #36

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    UPDATE: in answer to my own Q, it's a 2x12 HRD, per this post on forum member Dutchbopper's blog (thanks DB!)

    ========

    And in the "Resurrecting Zombie threads from over five years ago" category :-) anybody know which amp(s) MVI favors in studio or performance? I did see his blog post about tone coming from the fingers and I wholeheartedly agree that he walks that talk acoustically. But I do also like his amplified tone. In the vid of him playing Nica with Pete Bernstein it looks like he's using a HotRod Deluxe or something like that... and the vid above shows some sorta stompbox just behind his left knee on top of the amp, which also might be a HRD.

    Not that it matters a lot - he undoubtedly sounds great through just about any amp - but I'm curious.

    Anyone?

    SJ
    Last edited by starjasmine; 02-25-2021 at 10:56 PM.

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by starjasmine
    And in the "Resurrecting Zombie threads from over five years ago" category :-) anybody know which amp(s) MVI favors in studio or performance? I did see his blog post about tone coming from the fingers and I wholeheartedly agree that he walks that talk acoustically. But I do also like his amplified tone. In the vid of him playing Nica with Pete Bernstein it looks like he's using a HotRod Deluxe or something like that... and the vid above shows some sorta stompbox just behind his left knee on top of the amp, which also might be a HRD.

    Not that it matters a lot - he undoubtedly sounds great through just about any amp - but I'm curious.

    Anyone?

    SJ
    I looked around the internet with google. I could not find any answers. There are interviews and articles where he talks about that magical ES-125 that he got from another guitar legend, but there does not seem to be any discussion of his preferred amps.

    Sorry.

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsoRan
    I looked around the internet with google. I could not find any answers. There are interviews and articles where he talks about that magical ES-125 that he got from another guitar legend, but there does not seem to be any discussion of his preferred amps.

    Sorry.
    Check Dutchbopper's blog: Dutchbopper's Jazz Guitar Blog: Bop Till You Drop

    Martijn plays a Hot Rod Deville through a Zoom fx-module/preamp, I think a G2.

    As far as I know he also uses this setup in the studio, but I'm not sure.

    Martijn's setup on the right in the pic, Joe Cohn's on the left:


  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Little Jay
    Check Dutchbopper's blog: Dutchbopper's Jazz Guitar Blog: Bop Till You Drop

    Martijn plays a Hot Rod Deville through a Zoom fx-module/preamp, I think a G2.

    As far as I know he also uses this setup in the studio, but I'm not sure.

    Martijn's setup on the right in the pic, Joe Cohn's on the left:

    Now you have me questioning my Google search technique. The word "amp" and "Martijn Van Iterson" did not show up in any of the search results. Something told me to go to his blog as it normally has a lot of good info that one might not find elsewhere.

    Lesson learned and thanks.

  16. #40

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    I wonder how many Jazzers begin with only the melody and allow the changes to develop naturally based on THEIR EARS? Try this approach sometime. You might be surprised how this method develops your ideas and musical personality . . . not someone else's! And, it can be practiced at a very elementary level for beginners. I learned this approach in my early 20's when I studied improvisation with Chicago Jazz pianist Willie Pickens. You'll be amazed what you discover about yourself.

    Play live . . . Marinero

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marinero
    I wonder how many Jazzers begin with only the melody and allow the changes to develop naturally based on THEIR EARS? Try this approach sometime. You might be surprised how this method develops your ideas and musical personality . . . not someone else's! And, it can be practiced at a very elementary level for beginners. I learned this approach in my early 20's when I studied improvisation with Chicago Jazz pianist Willie Pickens. You'll be amazed what you discover about yourself.

    Play live . . . Marinero
    Great idea.

    This is kind of how I write my own little original songs that I play. As you said, it is rewarding to experience the chords that your ears prefer in regard to what the melody note might be. I often create chord fragments (due in part to Martijn's influence), and often find that these fragments can be parts of several different types of chords. I mainly try to determine if it is going to be Major, Minor, or some sort of Dominant. It can be a fun study in making music.

  18. #42

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    Thanks, LittleJay! I found another of DBs blogposts and saw your reply after I posted my update (which, incidentally, now has a link to a different DB blog entry that features an interview with MVI.)

    AlsoRan, I had the same experience with El Goog. NO luck searching the words amp, amplifier, or gear!

    Thx again!

    SJ