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  1. #201

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boogers View Post
    How do I join the group this late in the piece? Where would I start?
    Start where you are. This group has been dormant for awhile but there is always some interest in Pat Martino around here. You may be the catalyst for the resurgence of this thread!
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #202

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    I'll sort it out when I get back from holidays.Linear Expressions by Pat Martino


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  4. #203

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    I dug out my copy of "Linear Expressions" and worked on Phase II. (Using the first five activities in all 12 keys with a certain area of the guitar.) Felt good to get back into these lines.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  5. #204

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    Had a read of phase 1. Simply a G minor with chromaticism. Good for reading and picking with metronome. Next phase: APPLY TO TUNES.


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  6. #205

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boogers View Post
    Had a read of phase 1. Simply a G minor with chromaticism. Good for reading and picking with metronome. Next phase: APPLY TO TUNES.
    Well, the next phase (Phase II) is going through all 12 keys in one area of the fretboard. Phase III is going through 12 keys 'vertically and horizontally'. (In one place AND along the fretboard.) Phase IV is when Pat starts the application to tunes.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  7. #206

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    Only thinking out loud. Got a jam this afternoon and a session at the Con on Monday. Demands of the Monday tutor... Linear Expressions by Pat Martino


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  8. #207

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    I'm revisiting LE book again and trying to build a vocabulary based on LE "starters" followed by a resolution clichés on last two beats of V7, then using vi phase on I.
    Here's an example of possible connections.

    I will also post short videos in Instagram j-improve (@jazzimprove) • Instagram photos and videos

  9. #208

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    Just got this book two days ago. Read this thread with great interest. I memorized Activity 1. Much discussion above on how to apply these activities. Here is Activity 1 played in Am and Dm over corresponding Summertime chords. I tried to play the Activity in original sequence of notes but starting at various measures.

    I'm not sure Pat would approve but the Activity provides me with some fresh language that sounds at least as good as my other noodling.



    Does anybody know if there is a reason why Pat chose the particular sequence of notes in each Activity?

    I've been a long time fan of Jerry Garcia...I've read 1) he dug Pat Martino 2) he used to buy lots of guitar method books.

    I can almost hear some Jerry lines in there....wonder if he had the book too
    Last edited by alltunes; 05-02-2019 at 10:42 AM.

  10. #209

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    Quote Originally Posted by alltunes View Post

    Does anybody know if there is a reason why Pat chose the particular sequence of notes in each Activity?

    I've been a long time fan of Jerry Garcia...I've read 1) he dug Pat Martino 2) he used to buy lots of guitar method books.

    I can almost hear some Jerry lines in there....wonder if he had the book too

    I'm convinced Pat just winged those lines off the top of his head and Tony Baruso had the job of transcribing the lines and turning it into a book. If you check out some of the video stuff Pat's done, as well, you can see him rattle off similar and consistent lines over chords and progressions.

    It's his vocabulary.

    The question that remains for me is regarding the sequences shown in the line studies. It's never stated if those sequences have any application to specific chord movements. The "minorization" thread discusses this a little bit.

    In his later vids, he shows different sequences for working all the keys.

    The reason I think this is important is that he also demonstrates in one of the vids how he will subtly alter his lines depending on what he's playing over. He will head toward different resolution points. Just taking his lines and forcing them over different chords is hit or miss in my opinion.

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  11. #210

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    It is a very "jazz" idea for a book, ain't it?

    Here's these "things." Make something happen with them.
    Jeff Matz, Jazz Guitar:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/jeffreymatz

    "Jazz is like life...it goes on longer than you think, and as soon as you're like 'oh, I get it,' it ends."

    --The Ghost of Duke Ellington

  12. #211

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    Quote Originally Posted by FwLineberry View Post
    I'm convinced Pat just winged those lines off the top of his head and Tony Baruso had the job of transcribing the lines and turning it into a book. If you check out some of the video stuff Pat's done, as well, you can see him rattle off similar and consistent lines over chords and progressions.

    It's his vocabulary.
    Can both things be so? It seems to me that if those lines are "his vocabulary" (and I am inclined to that view), then in what sense could Pat have "just winged those lines off the top of his head"? One's musical vocabulary is habit, not happenstance.

    I think you're right that in other videos "you can see him rattle off similar and consistent lines over chords and progressions." That's how he plays. And that's what he is showing in that book.

    One definition of jazz improv is "the spontaneous recombination of known material." I think that is what Pat does. The "activities" might be called the nuts and bolts of it. Then the line studies show different ways to join activities together (to move from one chord to another). But Pat always sounds like Pat.

    It's remarkable what a range of expression he can get on the instrument out of a few simple shapes and minor-type lines. Sometimes I think we expect things to be harder than they actually are. ;o)
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  13. #212

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    Can both things be so? It seems to me that if those lines are "his vocabulary" (and I am inclined to that view), then in what sense could Pat have "just winged those lines off the top of his head"? One's musical vocabulary is habit, not happenstance.

    I think you're right that in other videos "you can see him rattle off similar and consistent lines over chords and progressions." That's how he plays. And that's what he is showing in that book.

    One definition of jazz improv is "the spontaneous recombination of known material." I think that is what Pat does. The "activities" might be called the nuts and bolts of it. Then the line studies show different ways to join activities together (to move from one chord to another). But Pat always sounds like Pat.

    It's remarkable what a range of expression he can get on the instrument out of a few simple shapes and minor-type lines. Sometimes I think we expect things to be harder than they actually are. ;o)


    You're reading too much into my statement. I only meant that he played them off the top of his head rather than plotting out what he was going to play in advance.

    If there's one thing that Pat demonstrates in his vids it's that you have to know this stuff so well it just flows out of you spontaneously. He never hesitates when he's running his vocabulary over different chord sequences or at any location on the fingerboard. It's the same with chord inversions, though he does seem to lose is place occasionally during his TrueFire course when moving up the neck with augmented chords. But I don't think he uses that parental chord form stuff as much as it would appear from the way it's been repackaged and dressed it up repeatedly.

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  14. #213

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    LE-It is a great book-need a few years to understand it.

  15. #214

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    This book puzzles me a bit. I'm not sure what exactly one is supposed to get out of the "activities". In the opening blurb, the book is motived as a resource for jazz improvisation. I can see that some can benefit from the book in the areas of theory and the fretboard. As the book:
    - Simplifies the chord-scale theory by reducing the scale choices.
    - Provides an organization of the fretboard that's consistent with it's chord-scale system.
    Is there anything to get out of the book for those who aren't looking for a new way of mapping of scales to chords (as simplified and elegant as it may be) or looking to change their approach to the fretboard?
    Activites seem to be cool sounding scalar calisthenics. But how do yo benefit from them? Do they get into your playing by osmosis? Are you supposed to analyze them and extract ideas? Or are they just long licks that you can plug with some variations in your solos? Should they be treated as alternate picking technique exercises to internalize the fretboard system of the book? What is up with them?

  16. #215

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    This is from a TrueFire article.

    Abandoning the Piano
    “Here’s the piano,” says Martino, playing the C major scale in Ex. 1. “These seven notes are the white keys." (Musical staff w/ tab: C major scale: C D E F G A B C)

    And the piano’s black keys are here [Ex. 2]. These five black keys spell a D# pentatonic minor scale, starting on the 7, C#.

    (C# D# F# G# A#, or: Db, Eb, Gb, Ab, and Bb)

    Combine those two groups of notes and you get all 12 notes of the octave—in other words, you get the chromatic scale [Ex. 3].

    That’s seven plus five. It’s a system of addition—a horizontal system based on the fact that the piano goes from left to right, from lower in pitch to higher in pitch. This is where scales come from, which are part of the community language you use to function with other musicians so that you can discuss modes and scale forms, etc. But scales really have nothing to do with how the guitar works. The guitar does not work horizontally.


    Pat Martino Guitar Lesson: "Sacred Geometry" - TrueFire Blog

    I thought that an arresting line: "But scales really have nothing to do with how the guitar works. The guitar does not work horizontally."
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  17. #216
    I see that book as an introduction to Martinos lines. He gives you a line for every position (he actually uses 4 positions, the 5th as a making of the writer of the book, or so i was told by Garrison Fewell). Then you can mix them up, play parts of them in different positions, and play them over different chords (G-7, C7, Bbmaj7, E-7b5), or even over II-Vs. Its a simple thing, but it does give results. I think because of how structured Martinos approach is. You spend enough time with these lines, they start to grow on you. Same (even better) if you do a transcription of one of his solos. Even without intellectually understanding all the substitutions, the bebop scales, the chromatics he uses to construct lines, i 've had students learn enough of his lines and they are in the ballpark!

  18. #217

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175 View Post
    Is there anything to get out of the book for those who aren't looking for a new way of mapping of scales to chords (as simplified and elegant as it may be) or looking to change their approach to the fretboard?
    Activites seem to be cool sounding scalar calisthenics. But how do yo benefit from them? Do they get into your playing by osmosis? Are you supposed to analyze them and extract ideas? Or are they just long licks that you can plug with some variations in your solos? Should they be treated as alternate picking technique exercises to internalize the fretboard system of the book? What is up with them?
    After learning the activities in all areas of the fretboard (in all keys), the "line studies" start and although these are long, each 'chord' is two measures (or one if, like Pat, you play streams of sixteenth notes), so you see the activities broken down into bits (and also varied). So you learn how to extract bits from the activities to start and end phrases on, and you learn how to move from one chord to another. You also learn how to play the same phrase on differnt string sets with differnt fingerings, as phrases recur from activity to activity.

    It might be like Mr Myagi in "Karate Kid" making Daniel wax cars to learn certain movements. ;o)
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  19. #218

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter View Post
    I see that book as an introduction to Martinos lines. He gives you a line for every position (he actually uses 4 positions, the 5th as a making of the writer of the book, or so i was told by Garrison Fewell). Then you can mix them up, play parts of them in different positions, and play them over different chords (G-7, C7, Bbmaj7, E-7b5), or even over II-Vs. Its a simple thing, but it does give results. I think because of how structured Martinos approach is. You spend enough time with these lines, they start to grow on you. Same (even better) if you do a transcription of one of his solos. Even without intellectually understanding all the substitutions, the bebop scales, the chromatics he uses to construct lines, i 've had students learn enough of his lines and they are in the ballpark!

    I think it's inaccurate to say he only uses four positions. In his 'The Nature of Guitar' course he demonstrates playing over a set of changes using five positions. In that course or elsewhere he also demonstrates organizing the fingerboard by playing off root notes with the 1st and 4th fingers on the E A D and G strings.

    One thing is clear, though, he is comfortable playing in any key anywhere on the fingerboard.

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  20. #219

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alter View Post
    I see that book as an introduction to Martinos lines. He gives you a line for every position (he actually uses 4 positions, the 5th as a making of the writer of the book, or so i was told by Garrison Fewell).
    Interesting! I had not heard that. It's clear in the book that the first and fifth activities use the same chord shape, but one activity starts with the index finger and moves upward while that other starts on the fourth finger and moves downward. (I think of this as playing on either side of that shape.)
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  21. #220

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    I've memorized Activity 1. Was thinking of proceeding next to Activity 4 so I have I have root references on the E and A string.

    I'm interested in putting these ideas immediately to work in my playing so this approach seemed to make sense to me.


    Thoughts?

  22. #221

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    Hi,

    after spending some weeks, I was able to memorize the 5 activities in Phase-I. It was lot of work, but for sure more fun than learning scales since the activities are very musical. I am now wondering why some of the activities in Phase-II are new or different. Maybe I didn't understood the main idea of this book!?! I thought, the activities from Phase-I are kind of blueprint and in combination with the concept of chord-substitution to minor I would be able to improvise over any chord-changes and sound at least a little bit in the style of Pat Martino .
    Does anybody know, why Phase-II introduces new activities?

    Thx

  23. #222

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    Quote Originally Posted by oec View Post
    Does anybody know, why Phase-II introduces new activities?
    I don't think they are new but they are varied. And that mainly because the lines must connect to other chords. (The five activities in Part I are stand-alone; they don't connect to other chords.) When going from, say, Gm7 to Abm7, you have to somehow establish the change. Learning these line studies---which can take a long time---helps with that.

    Not all the variations have to do with connecting one chord with another. But that is a big part of the line studies.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  24. #223

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    Good thing it's enjoyable. Although I'm not at it every day it has taken me a long time. I'm just moving into phase 2. I do see these spontaneously coming out when playing with others. Never could stick with running scales because it wasn't musical for me. I think this is a productive approach.

  25. #224

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    I don't think they are new but they are varied. And that mainly because the lines must connect to other chords. (The five activities in Part I are stand-alone; they don't connect to other chords.) When going from, say, Gm7 to Abm7, you have to somehow establish the change. Learning these line studies---which can take a long time---helps with that.

    Not all the variations have to do with connecting one chord with another. But that is a big part of the line studies.
    Sometimes a little hint brings the motivation back . Thank you!

  26. #225

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    Quote Originally Posted by oec View Post
    Hi,

    after spending some weeks, I was able to memorize the 5 activities in Phase-I. It was lot of work, but for sure more fun than learning scales since the activities are very musical. I am now wondering why some of the activities in Phase-II are new or different. Maybe I didn't understood the main idea of this book!?! I thought, the activities from Phase-I are kind of blueprint and in combination with the concept of chord-substitution to minor I would be able to improvise over any chord-changes and sound at least a little bit in the style of Pat Martino .
    Does anybody know, why Phase-II introduces new activities?

    Thx

    In my opinion Pat's instructional materials are not designed around learning everything he does note-for-note. There is value in doing that, but it is not the aim of the books/videos. Instead, the aim is to give you ideas of things you could do in certain situations. The point being that you can go through Pat's example and understand the principle involved. The exact notes you play are not important to the concept. I think that's why he insists that the examples are not scales or licks. They are areas of activity. He constantly reminds you that he just plays the type of stuff he likes to hear.

    For example, take exercise 1. The first part of that exercise is an ascending melodic minor idea. You'll see that same idea pop up over and over in these exercises with different variations on how it moves to the next part of the exercise. In the first exercise, the idea has to hook on to a descending Dorian based idea over the same chord. In a different exercise it hooks on to a descending line over a different chord.

    You'll find the same thing with other exercises as well.

    By the time you get to line study 5A, you're expected to create the exercise on your own. You're then expected t apply the concepts learned to one of Pat's tunes and other standards.

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  27. #226

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    Quote Originally Posted by FwLineberry View Post
    In my opinion Pat's instructional materials are not designed around learning everything he does note-for-note. There is value in doing that, but it is not the aim of the books/videos. Instead, the aim is to give you ideas of things you could do in certain situations....
    I'm not familiar with all of Pat's instructional materials and I know many (if not most) appeared as videos rather than books. But I think he expects students of "Linear Expressions" to master those "activities" as written.

    From page 10: "The following activities (line forms) should be associated with their respective chord inversions. They should be thoroughly understood and memorized before moving on."
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  28. #227

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    I'm not familiar with all of Pat's instructional materials and I know many (if not most) appeared as videos rather than books. But I think he expects students of "Linear Expressions" to master those "activities" as written.

    From page 10: "The following activities (line forms) should be associated with their respective chord inversions. They should be thoroughly understood and memorized before moving on."

    I agree, but not as licks to be recycled whenever you see a ii V I but as training exercises to learn the principles behind the activities.

    I think there's a lot of value to be had by thoroughly learning each exercise. I don't think there's any value in thinking the licks should stay the same in each section. The expectation I've seen here and elsewhere is that you'll be shown a lick and then be shown what to do with that lick. That's not really how this book works.

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  29. #228

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    I've been working with this book for a while now as a bit of a warm-up/technique thing (i.e., a more musical way of getting into a practice session than scales or finger exercises). Right now I'm in Phase III, and just starting on the second line study. I'm really digging it.

    I still start every session going through the five activities. As you'll see, everything builds on those or is a variation on those. I think the variability was intentional on Pat's part: The activities are starting points, ways to visualise or approach that area of the fretboard on that particular inversion, but flexible enough to be altered to suit the context of what has come before and what comes after.

    I thought about starting (or rekindling) a thread about this book, but in the end I don't think there is a lot to say about it. It is one of those things that you just do, you get the material under your fingers, and eventually it just begins to spontaneously come out in your playing. That's what I'm starting to see happen, anyway... not that I'm blazing through changes like Pat!
    Jay

    'boobadoobadoobaooababop!'

  30. #229

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    Quote Originally Posted by FwLineberry View Post
    I agree, but not as licks to be recycled whenever you see a ii V I but as training exercises to learn the principles behind the activities.

    I think there's a lot of value to be had by thoroughly learning each exercise. I don't think there's any value in thinking the licks should stay the same in each section. The expectation I've seen here and elsewhere is that you'll be shown a lick and then be shown what to do with that lick. That's not really how this book works.

    .
    I'd agree with this.

    I think initially, yes, you have to really know each of the 5 activities as written. But as you learn them, as you pointed out earlier, you notice that each long line is made up of multiple 3 to 6 note 'cells', many of which crop up multiple times in different activities. Same cell, different position.

    So as the material becomes really ingrained in your playing, you can start to just combine these little cells on the fly and take the line in any direction you want - shifting through positions but still keeping that cool 'bop' flavour of the line.

    I think that's why the lines later in the book make all these slight changes to the direction of the line - it's a demonstration of the above.

    In parallel to this, the book is also concerned with being able to use these lines to follow the changes, based on the 'minorisation' concept. The ability to both move through changes and constantly re-combine the 'cells' on the fly gives you a ton of material that you can kind of use as 'glue' to transition between ideas as you improvise.

    Sheryl Bailey covers some quite similar concepts for creating lines in her 'Family Of Four' tutorials.

  31. #230

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    Quote Originally Posted by mnorris777 View Post
    I think initially, yes, you have to really know each of the 5 activities as written. But as you learn them, as you pointed out earlier, you notice that each long line is made up of multiple 3 to 6 note 'cells', many of which crop up multiple times in different activities. Same cell, different position.
    I wonder if anyone has compared Pat's "cells" to the bebop teaching of David Baker and Barry Harris...
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  32. #231

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    I play the 5 activities almost every day as a warmup. I also decided to learn each activity transposed into all five positions. Nuts, I know.
    So in position 1, I'll play activity 1,2,3,4 and 5. Same with position 2-5. I transposed the phrases to fit where it made sense to me. Some work better than others but they all can be arranged to fit. So if I'm playing in Gm, I'll have 25 patterns to play. It actually goes faster than you would think.
    One benefit of transposing one activity over 5 positions is it helps to break up my habitual way of seeing those boxes/positions.
    I also like to play these activities over different chord progressions just to see how they sound. Vamping over Gm7 endlessly gets boring. I also take the activities apart when some aspect strikes me as interesting.
    The activities start on the first beat of the measure but it's fun to explore how the phrases work when you start them on different beats.
    Larry

  33. #232

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    Been lurking this thread, very inspiring, but I’m afraid it’s dying out, so it’s time I start contributing myself!

    I recorded Line study 1B, since that’s as far as I’ve come, and then stitched in an older video of some work on Phase 1. The video format looks strange, because my editing software was set to an instagram layout.

    I’ve only just started, so any feedback or tips is much appreciated.


  34. #233

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    Here’s 2A. Any tips or criticism welcome. When I work on these, sometimes it makes all the sense in the world and sometimes it feels like I’ve just started learning about music yesterday.


  35. #234

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    Quote Originally Posted by podink View Post
    I play the 5 activities almost every day as a warmup. I also decided to learn each activity transposed into all five positions. Nuts, I know.
    So in position 1, I'll play activity 1,2,3,4 and 5. Same with position 2-5. I transposed the phrases to fit where it made sense to me. Some work better than others but they all can be arranged to fit. So if I'm playing in Gm, I'll have 25 patterns to play. It actually goes faster than you would think.
    One benefit of transposing one activity over 5 positions is it helps to break up my habitual way of seeing those boxes/positions.
    I also like to play these activities over different chord progressions just to see how they sound. Vamping over Gm7 endlessly gets boring. I also take the activities apart when some aspect strikes me as interesting.
    The activities start on the first beat of the measure but it's fun to explore how the phrases work when you start them on different beats.
    Larry
    I’m not a hundred percent sure I’m following (might be my poor english skills) do you have a video of you doing this?

  36. #235

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    Quote Originally Posted by ErikWasser View Post
    I’m not a hundred percent sure I’m following (might be my poor english skills) do you have a video of you doing this?
    Sorry I do not have a video. I'm not sure how useful doing what I do actually is beyond what I explained previously. I had a job with a lot of spare time...
    Larry