The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    My advice is to report back in about 1 year, assuming you work your butt off. This stuff doesn't come easy - it takes time.

    I notice that most people who try to learn jazz don't place enough importance on listening to jazz - active listening, not background listening (but make sure you do that too). That will really help. I'd say that listening probably helped me more than anything, followed by applying practice ideas to tunes. Of course, first I had to learn some tunes...

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    For the scales, my teacher started me off with using the pentatonic scales and the modes, not much else. Arpeggios I haven't really used, because I've had a hard time memorizing them, they seem to keep slipping away, although it was like that with the major and minor scales, and the modes too. For the songs, so far we've done Impressions, Freddy Freeloader, Minority, and Straight No Chaser. At home I tend to practice those as well.

    coolvinny- I do listen to a lot of Jazz, although it is probably more background music as you describe. I'll make sure to set time into my day to focus solely on listening to the music, without distractions.

  4. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac
    coolvinny- I do listen to a lot of Jazz, although it is probably more background music as you describe. I'll make sure to set time into my day to focus solely on listening to the music, without distractions.
    Listening is probably the best source of inspiration for "what to do". What I found out is its also about knowing what to listen for, or "listen for something". One of these things is phrasing. Try to think of length of a phrase, and maybe what the melody lines looks like. With that I mean how me melody goes up and down, and that could be just within a phrase.

    But one thing that do loosen up the improvisation is learning a solo. Find a great jazz solo, preferably a blues in the start. Does not have to be a guitarist. Learn that one solo, and play it with a record. This will get you an idea, and a feeling for what an improvisation could look like. There are plenty of jazzsolos written out in tabs.
    Ive been there, and im still working on it, and its a process, but learning a solo was something that pushed me in a direction.

    Good luck Mac!

  5. #29

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    Man, I'd like to backhand your teacher. Throwing modal tunes at a beginner? SMACK! Sounds like a rock/blus cat trying to teach jazz--teachers like that are the number one reason people get frustrated with jazz and give up.

    DO learn the arpeggios, learn them until they don't slip away. The "slipping away" factor is another reason I want to smack your teacher, because it makes me believe the arpeggios were not taught in any kind of useful context, and that learning chords has not been stressed--and chords are integral to jazz...I tell my students they have no business taking a solo until they can show me three places to play each chord in a tune--and that's the simple stuff--root position chords.

    Take a ballad, something like Autumn Leaves, All of Me, All the Things You Are (Even though that one has a TON of chords) or a easy Bossa like Blue Bossa...starting with modal tunes seems like a simple choice, but it's very, very, difficult for someone new to improvising to actually sound jazzy over 8 bars of a static minor chord. It's easy on paper because the chord changes are slow, but it teaches you absolutely nothing about the actual playing of jazz.

    There's some legwork if you're going to play jazz. You'll need to listen to a lot of it just to get the sound and phrasing in your head...that's step one. So if you're serious about playing jazz, then you need to have it on as much as humanly possible...do some close headphone listening at night, but just have it on during the day too...it needs to seep into you, it has to become the music that plays in your head.

    Now some folks will tell you step 2 is copping licks, and if you can hear them and figure them out, then yes, by all means, start copping stuff...but I think that actually comes later, when you can get something more out of copping than just the lick--you can do a little analysis as to "why" it works, learn it in different keys, different positions...make it your own.

    Then there's the not as fun and somewhat robotic stage of running changes, which I really believe is absolutely necessary. It starts simple enough...playing arpeggios over the chords. This is why you pick a relatively easy tune with one chord to the bar...start with quarter notes, arpeggio up on every chord...then ascending and descending, alternating bars...then 8th notes...you need to drill those notes into your head, so you can hear how they define the chord of the moment. Then you can play games...arpeggio up, chromatic down...start arpeggios from the third...etc...

    This is a lot of work. There are no shortcuts. Start today and check in with your progress or lack thereof (if you need a kick in the butt)

    And think about a new teacher, seriously. I highly doubt you will learn how to play jazz from this cat.

    Sorry for being harsh, but if you want to learn jazz, I want you to learn, not wallow around confused for a few months and quit.

  6. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Man, I'd like to backhand your teacher. Throwing modal tunes at a beginner? SMACK! Sounds like a rock/blus cat trying to teach jazz--teachers like that are the number one reason people get frustrated with jazz and give up.

    .....

    Take a ballad, something like Autumn Leaves, All of Me, All the Things You Are (Even though that one has a TON of chords) or a easy Bossa like Blue Bossa...starting with modal tunes seems like a simple choice, but it's very, very, difficult for someone new to improvising to actually sound jazzy over 8 bars of a static minor chord. It's easy on paper because the chord changes are slow, but it teaches you absolutely nothing about the actual playing of jazz.

    .....

    Sorry for being harsh, but if you want to learn jazz, I want you to learn, not wallow around confused for a few months and quit.
    I totally agree. You don't learn how to play the changes by playing tunes with minimal changes! And yeah, although I sound 'less bad' over modal tunes, I'd say I sound less jazzy over them, because I don't yet have the skill to apply/imply harmonies other than the static ones.

    And that background listening doesn't cut it man. Listen - really listen. You should be able to identify the form of the song after hearing it once. Can you do that? ABAC? Blues? What is the time signature (almost always 4/4 but still good to listen for it)? Can you track the bar numbers to keep you place in the form while the musicians solo? These are essential skills; those drum solos will often test your internal meter. Underrated, but essential skills. Deep listening is exhausting! 20 minutes and I usually need a break.

  7. #31

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    Great comments above... I'll just add... There are two general approaches to learning to improvise. One is basically memorize and build a collection of memorized material that you can play and use a reference to create relationships with. You play from using that memorized material to create from. Pretty standard approach... takes about 40 or 50 years unless your one of those freaks...incredible talent, photo memory, perfect pitch etc...

    The other approach is become aware of different improvisational concepts, not just the applications of different styles of soloing or the material you memorize...

    -example could be you learn what makes a blues approach, the theory, harmonic and melodic concepts. What make blues approaches different, as compared to chord tones, melodic development, modal concepts, modal interchange, tonal as compared to modal, use of Form, rhythmic concepts etc... there are many separate aspects to approaching soloing and playing in general.

    The other part of this approach is the technical training on your instrument... all the BS, scales, arpeggios, comping... Sight reading, ear training. Just the physical training... After you've developed your skills you then start performance training... a combination of the two.

    This is not a short process, your not going to push some buttons, collect some info... hey I get it... and start performing... sorry it just doesn't happen. But generally you don't hit as many wall using the second approach.

    They both work... but usually in the end, those who use method #1 wish they would have put a little time into the 2nd approach. Either way you do need an organized approach.

    Reg

  8. #32

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    All the other stuff about running changes, playing the arpeggio over chord changes, quarter notes, then eighths...

    It's a mechanical sounding process, but it trains your hands and ears to work together.

  9. #33

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    There's been a lot of good advice so far. Here's my 2 pennies.

    It sounds like you are struggling with feel confident about what you are doing. It's easy to feel lost like this. Even intermediate players, like myself, will run up against situations (odd time signatures, weird harmonies) where they don't have an instinctive vocabulary to rely on. It even happens to the best players. Have you ever heard Tommy Flanagan's solo on the original "Giant Steps" recordings? He was clearly lost and uncomfortable. It's a weird feeling, and a bad one. The good news is that it's pretty easy to remedy.

    First, start today and do as others have recommended and listen, listen, listen. Pick a favorite player, and listen to one cut or CD over and over again until you know the solos by heart. Sing along with them, even if you're not a good singer, and try to imagine yourself playing them on guitar. That's going to put your goal in mind. But let's be honest, you still won't have any idea how to get started doing that. Jazz is hard, and there's a reason we consider those players "the greats".

    Pick one lick. Learn it in one position. Don't worry about "all 12 keys", "all 12 positions", or any of that other intimidating stuff right now. Just pick one lick, in one comfortable position, in one picking pattern, one fingering pattern, with one rhythmic feel. I'd suggest starting with something as simple as playing a major scale from the root to the octave in eighth notes.

    If you've got an Aebersold backing track, or band in a box, put on one of the songs you know. Now, when you solo, just sit there and wait for the right time to play that lick over the right chord. Do it four or five times until you can really nail the lick, and you feel really comfortable with it.

    Now you have something to say. After that, pick another lick. Then another. See where this is going?

    It's a long journey but all the steps along the way are small.

  10. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
    Man, I'd like to backhand your teacher. Throwing modal tunes at a beginner? SMACK! Sounds like a rock/blus cat trying to teach jazz--teachers like that are the number one reason people get frustrated with jazz and give up.
    Those are the people I took lessons from. Rock guys who could also "play jazz".

    This is a great point. I think modal songs are hard. When I started to learn I remember playing over minor vamps with Dorian modes, and it made no musical sense to me. I think it was a totally useless exercise. Jamey Aebersold CDs for beginners feature lots of modal tunes (like Maiden Voyage, Impressions, So What). So it would seem logical to start there, but I agree it's not a good idea. Maiden Voyage is still a hard song for me to play and sound interesting. I feel much more comfortable over normal II-V-I standards.

  11. #35

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    After learning countless scales and arpeggios and learning countless Aebersold melodies in 12 keys, I still am struggling with improvisation. I decided to change my approach to transcribing solo's and creating my own lines and learning them in 12 keys in all the different positions on the guitar.

    If anyone has other tips I would greatly appreciate it! I know improvisation is a long journey, but I was looking for any other pointers such as good exercises over certain chords in 12 keys etc. etc.

    Thank you so much!

    Tyler

  12. #36

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    Some other tips: Transcribe piano, sax, trumpet as well as guitar.
    Slow practice tunes at mm 60-80
    Work on phrasing and leave lots of space.
    Voice lead the 3rds and 7th's of each chords.
    Play simple motives and then develop these like a composer
    the two improv books by Hal Crook have lots of other great ideas.

    Regards,

  13. #37

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    For me, page 10 of the Aebersold 'Red' book really helped me and gave me structure when learning to improvise over tunes.

    The other thing that helped me alot was not changing my practice routine too often. Staying on 2-3 topics for a month or two vs. changing topics every week helped me to really absorb them.
    Last edited by Dana; 07-02-2013 at 06:12 PM.

  14. #38

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    Practise singing lines
    Sing lines you have copped from other players - the solution to every problem will be in your record collection!
    Sing lines you make up yourself
    Sing these lines and play them on your axe

    Plus - it is worth IMHO checking out Kenny Werner & his effortless mastery approach & his masterclasses on youtube:
    Really useful guidance on practise and playing:


  15. #39

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    Start with just two or three notes...make them "sing" using rhythmic variation...

    Add another not to make four....then five...etc...till you get a two octave "riff"....

    Remember that rhythm is the key to make the music come alive....

    Less becomes more....a lot can be said with only three or four notes..

    time on the instrument...

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by tyjbeck
    After learning countless scales and arpeggios and learning countless Aebersold melodies in 12 keys, I still am struggling with improvisation.
    1. The point of improvisation is to hint at or imply harmony and change in harmony. Improvisation is a linear harmony instead of a vertical one.

    2. For every chord there are allowed tensions and there are avoid tones. This goes for both diatonic- and non-diatonic chords. You need to learn what those tones are. Chord tones and allowed tensions are safe because they do not change the harmony of the moment. Avoid tones conflict with or establish a different harmony.

    3. Learn how to identify temporary and permanent tonic chords in a song, and then learn how to reharmonize the song around those tonics.

    4. Once you have your reharmonization, learn the allowed tensions and the avoid tones for each chord.

    5. Learn various tricks for strongly (versus weakly) establishing the harmony at the chord change (the downbeat)

    6. Don't transcribe anything until you have a solid understanding of harmony

    7. First strive to imitate a "cocktail-piano" style of playing, then strive to imitate a "standard jazz" style of playing (such as Beegie Adair), BEFORE you try imitating bebop, Charlie Parker, or more "advanced, avante guard" jazz players.
    Last edited by mwtzzz; 07-08-2013 at 02:25 PM.

  17. #41

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    The best tip anyone ever gave me for improvisation - listen for melodies in your head, and try to play them!

  18. #42

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    Improvisation means hearing an original melody in your head (against a set of chord changes) and playing it by ear on your instrument. So, rather than just working on lines that you can plug in during performance, I recommend:

    practicing your scales, arpeggios, etc, both to build up your technique and to create a repository of sounds in your imagination AND

    spending time dreaming up ("hearing") melodies in your head that are jazz solos
    AND

    developing your ear so that you can play the melodies you hear in your head on your guitar.

  19. #43

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    Hey guys,

    Just wanted to give a big shout out to everyone who offered their own input or was part of the entertainment on this thread, everything was pretty awesome! I realized transcribing solo's is really crucial and also just being able to keep track of the changes!

    Thanks again!

    Tyler

  20. #44

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    I think what you are doing with transcribing and forming your own lines is great but make sure you are always practicing your lines and transcriptions with a metronome (I'm guilty of not doing this as much as I should) because your feel and time are just as or more important than the notes you play. Also, try incorporating motifs and chordal ideas to make things interesting. To practice phrasing, try singing along with the notes you play when you practice soloing so that you are forced to eventually breathe along with your lines and this will force you to incorporate some space. Also, listening to jazz a lot is very important if you feel like you could be listening more. Hope this helps

  21. #45

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    What is improvisation? I think it is some form of creatively interpreting a melody within the context of harmonic and rhythmic relationships. But of course, there are different approaches depending on the context and style of music.

    Last night I was wandering around on YouTube playing through various versions of particular songs. I happened to be looking at the song, Besame Mucho. A relatively simple song that is certainly not in the bebop camp, but fun to play and quite lyrical. So I was listening to a couple of solo versions and group versions. One guitarist played a solo version in an almost flamenco style, but he kept putting so many 'fills' in between the melody lines that it was a bit off putting. Now, another played an almost 'classical' solo arrangement that articulated the melody beautifully with excellent harmony. That was very well played and beautiful, but was it improvisational? Not so sure, but a great arrangement. Then I heard Jeff Linsky's version that had an almost bossa but still Latin style approach which strayed a bit from just straight melody and harmonization. Were any of these approaches improvisation? I'm not too sure. Maybe Jeff's was most creative.

    Once you start throwing substitutions into the straight chord progression and getting a little creative with the melody, that seems to me to be more improvisational. On the other hand, I listened to Derek Bailey, too. Now that was too much "deconstruction". That I just don't dig. I feel the same way about real 'avant-garde' pianists. Give me Bill Evans any day. And he could play the keys off the piano and twist a melody around like crazy. When you can do that and the listener can still understand what the song is, that's the sweet spot for me. Or as some like Joe Pass have said, 'the melody is a good place to start..."

    I know I sound anti-intellectual, but I play the melodies and harmonies I hear in my mind, especially if I close my eyes and just get into the flow. I know what modes are and substitutions and when Dorian scale sounds good over the iim7 or Locrian over maj7 chords and ninths, etc..... but instead of thinking about my phrasing as 'what tones should I use here', I just play the phrase as I want to hear it. If I hear a Cmaj7 - Dbdim7 - Dmin7 - Ebdim7 - progression like Bewitched, then I just play the notes and rhythms as I hear them. In all honesty sometimes I just think about target tones in a phrase and focus on a rhythmic pattern, letting my subconscious make the chromatic and approach notes in-between. And sometimes I take the approach of playing the vocal melody as a phrase and expand the 'fills' in between as a call/response thing. I'm always aware of the harmonic relationships but I really don't want to be 'thinking' about it when I'm actually playing in the flow. If I play a b5, b9, a !3th it's because that's the note I hear, not because it's part of a treatise on modes.

    Maybe I'm too lazy... If I analyze what I'm doing, sometimes I'm thinking about the Vm7 or V7 of the chord root I'm playing over, which is also related to the chord a minor third above it or a major second below. If I'm playing over a C chord in a progression, I might be thinking playing the Gm7 notes or the Eb7 notes or Bb7 notes. I do that especially in the "response" phase of the call and response sequence. Anyone else do that? I suspect so. What about that approach, Reg?

  22. #46

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    Hey to all... hope things are well,

    So improve is basically a very simple concept, maybe somewhat difficult to do well, and becomes even more difficult when other musicians are involved etc...

    I play for audiences... at least generally, personally whether the audience leaves early aspect is not so much about what your playing.... generally I use the 80-20% guideline...anyway it's usually how well you play what your playing.

    You can play background and safe jazz, don't push anything. Somewhat what I believe gersdal is referring to. Not a knock... be prepared... no train wrecks etc... But what happens is there are different levels of being prepared, I'm prepared for...improvisation. Could be as I said before..."spontaneous creation from experimentation and discovery...interaction and reaction within a framework or "FORM", and that form may also develop, change. This within relationships between members of the band, or even a solo setting"... I'm very comfortable not knowing where the music is going at any given moment. I'm well prepared for that type of improvisation, like someone said...It's not rocket science.

    And I believe the thinking and being aware of what and where your going aspects of improve are very relative to how well you understand jazz theory and how well you play. You can somewhat understand everything theoretically and still not be able to play... (that may be the norm). Or you can understand no theory and play very well.

    Generally the understand nothing approach has limitations and will show up in your playing... even if you don't hear it.

    I mean... who really cares during performance... you can either play.... or your working towards being able to play.

    I don't need to think while I'm playing... I trust my instincts. But I'm also very comfortable thinking or making conscious choices of what I want to play in reaction to what's going on musically or because I want to go somewhere musically.

    There are lots of approaches to improve... some work better than others. Some music requires higher levels of performance than others.

    I like to relate to how well I play something I don't know or haven't played before as more of a reflection of my improve skills. But again who cares... performance is performance....

    But if your trying to develop improve skills... why would you ignore different approaches, concepts and applications?

    Developing improve skills is different than developing performance practice of those improve skills.

    Again with jazz it's usually... Melodic or Harmonic approaches... within a framework... The "Form".

    Yea... rhythmic applications, dynamics etc...


    Hey targuit... thanks, I always dig this forum and it's members.

    I like that... "creatively interpreting"... that's a lot, interpreting generally involves a reference... right? How many references. I see interpreting... melodies, harmonies as being aware of references... then the improve begins. Once you define the reference(s)... you can create relationships and develop etc... You can go through this process consciously or not. But there are common practice jazz standard references.

    Personally the starting reference... camouflage game is fun, whether melodic, harmonic or both.

    But I always begin with "Form". the framework, that in it's self will organize improve. Your use of call and response or any Form of organizing sections of the improve is basically how I approach most of my playing.

    Call and answer is one version.... how you organize the improve within that form is what can become complicated... or not, blues etc... So you like to establish the call as a pedal or (tonal) reference for the response. Very classic approach and one I employ all the time during performance. Great way to keep an audience on board.

    Anyway... again general comment about improve... become aware of Forms, the frameworks for all the different approaches for improve. Your playing will fall naturally into place...

    Or just play and see what happens...

    I need to shorten my posts. Sorry Reg

  23. #47

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    Your posts are always great, Reg. No need to shorten them.

    I think my idea of preparing is similar to yours, and probably a little more in order to take into account that I'm an amateur and not a pro like yourself.

  24. #48

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    Hm. Start. Take a song and learn the melody and the chord changes. Memorize them. Then map the changes out modally or by locating the tonal centers. Also very important - locate the arpeggios and guide tones. Those are your primary reference points.

    Improvise through the chord changes of the song going very slowly and without any accompaniment, at least at first, using those guide tones and arpeggios. Break it down into sections. The A section or even the first half of the A section or a turn around until you can hear it and find the notes. 3rds are your friends.

    Don't get frustrated. It's all a process. Have fun. The more you do the better you get. Remember it's all in the phrasing.

  25. #49

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    The only theory you absolutely need to know is what scale goes with what chords. And at that point asking "how do you practice improvisation?" becomes much like asking "how do you practice walking?". The answer obviously is: IMPROVISE. I've improved my improvisational skills so much by just sitting for hours improvising and trying every possible creative idea I could think of. All the advanced techniques that we use like chromaticism, arpeggios, super-imposition, enclosures, etc...blah blah, don't mean shit if you can't just improvise creatively with a given set of notes over a given set of changes. And I've heard more than a few players who knew tons of theory, had a degree in music, could shred up and down the neck, and yet their playing was boring and lifeless. If I give you 4 notes to work with, and you can learn how to play those 4 notes in every possible creative way (by experimenting), and how to make those 4 notes interesting and beautiful to the ear, you will sound better than someone using 12 tones who knows every bit of theory and every trick in the book, but who doesn't know how to be creative or use their ear. There seems to be a common misconception amongst guitarists that there is some elusive piece of theory or information that will make their improvisation finally sound good. And the truth is, there isn't such a thing. It all comes down to you struggling with the notes in the "woodshed" and learning how to hear, think & play melodically. Then all the advanced techniques will just be the icing on the cake.

  26. #50

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    Jazz improvisation is play the changes.

    So the first step, you need to learn arpeggios :
    - Mimi Fox : arpeggio studies on jazz standards.
    - Don Mock : artful arpeggio.
    Second step, understand what is the guide tones :
    - Bert Ligon : Connecting Chords with a linear harmony.

    After that, copy the solos you like, get articulation, phrasing, ...

    The Aebersold volume1 has a lot of good advices.