The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by docbop
    You look at his lines and he's got tons of minor and dominant vocabulary. A lot of his dominant approach you see in his books is his variation of Barry Harris approach seeing relationships between chords (Barry tends to look from diminished POV, and Pat dominant.
    So if the tune is stating a dom7 chord - does Pat still sometimes outline a dom7 shape/arpeggio in the solo, not just a minor sub all the time?

    I was thinking about this minor sub approach and it's relatively straightforward when playing over min or maj, but applying it to all chords including dom7's seemed to be the unique aspect to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    Are we just talking min7 arpeggios here? I'm referring to Bminor lines over CMaj7. B-D-F#-A is okay, but C#? G#? Should I assume this is B Phrygian?
    I was wondering about this too - even though it's easy to say 'just play all minor shapes', it does get a bit tricky over certain chords - so you're still considering the original chord and its function. So then the concept goes from a 'simplified' approach to a complex one because you've got to consider the original progression in regards to chord function/appropriate mode then work out the minor sub on top.

    my 2c - it seems like a good approach if you already know the original modes and arps for a tune really really well (which Pat did before he developed this concept: crucial bit of info there), then you use these minor subs as a way of applying different target notes so you get a more 'upper extension' sound to your lines - such as A-7 being a sub for D-7: you avoid the tonic (D) which makes the line sound more modern.
    Last edited by 3625; 05-26-2013 at 08:38 PM.

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  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDaddyLoveHandles
    Are we just talking min7 arpeggios here?
    No, in Linear Expressions are some chapters included called "Line Studies":
    In These Chapters he demonstrates some lines connecting all 12 keys. From first position to the 12th fret.
    These Line Studies are more or less some ideas/Licks to demonstrate how to play through chord changes.
    But in these Line studies a lot is going on! These lines are packed with chromatics, Arpeggios, octave displacement... very intelligent composed lines.

    I think it is difficult to tell how this concept works as a whole in an internet thread, best option is to work through the book!
    It is cheap and gets you playing.
    Last edited by redwater; 05-27-2013 at 03:52 AM.

  4. #28

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    Where the heck is the octave displacement in Linear Expressions?
    You're the second person to mention it.

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by redwater
    No, in Linear Expressions are some chapters included called "Line Studies":
    In These Chapters he demonstrates some lines connecting all 12 keys. From first position to the 12th fret.
    These Line Studies are more or less some ideas/Licks to demonstrate how to play through chord changes.
    But in these Line studies a lot is going on! These lines are packed with chromatics, Arpeggios, octave displacement... very intelligent composed lines.

    I think it is difficult to tell how this concept works as a whole in an internet thread, best option is to work through the book!
    It is cheap and gets you playing.
    .
    Last edited by ASATcat; 05-27-2013 at 11:41 AM.

  5. #29

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    The first time it shows up in line study 2A at Ebm7 line, first two notes.

    The second time is Line Study 2B at the first of the two Cm7 lines, also first two notes.

    Third Time 3A at Am7 first two notes.

    Hope I could help you.

  6. #30

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    In my opinion that is a skip or leap, not octave displacement. As I understand it 1/2 step and whole step is called step or stepwise movement, anything larger is called a skip or a leap.

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by redwater
    The first time it shows up in line study 2A at Ebm7 line, first two notes.

    The second time is Line Study 2B at the first of the two Cm7 lines, also first two notes.

    Third Time 3A at Am7 first two notes.

    Hope I could help you.
    Last edited by ASATcat; 05-27-2013 at 03:30 PM.

  7. #31

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    Here is a Joe Diorio octave displaced line. #28 in his REH hotline book

    Am7b5
    -5--3------------------
    -----------4-------------
    ------------------5--3---
    --------4-----------------
    ---------------5----------
    -------------------------5

    And here it is undisplaced

    Am7b5
    -5--3--2-----------------
    -----------4--3-----------
    ------------------5--3--2-
    ---------------------------
    ---------------------------
    ---------------------------
    Last edited by ASATcat; 05-27-2013 at 04:16 PM.

  8. #32

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    And here is a Martino line straight

    Gm
    ------------------------
    ------------------------
    ------------------------
    --------------------3---
    ----------3--4--5-----5
    -3--5--6---------------

    Displaced

    Gm
    -------------------------
    --------------2--------3
    ----2--3----------------
    ---------------------3---
    -----------3-----5------
    -3-----------------------

    The difference between octave displacement and skipwise movement is that in displacement there are many more shifts. Skipwise is more like one shift.

  9. #33

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    Don`t want to argue your observations, but I think OD must not necessarily be overdone to be OD.
    Anyway, it is just a kind of definition...
    Last edited by redwater; 05-27-2013 at 05:43 PM.

  10. #34

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    I have Martino's "Creative force" part 1 and 2. He shows his conversion thing (already covered in this thread) and plays/tabs lines over all sorts of chords.
    He seems to like minor because he really knows how to create the interesting chromatic/jazzy lines that he is famous for when thinking in dorian.
    But once you get the hang of his ideas it's possible to move them to major and other modes yourself with the minor conversion concept.
    Like the famous line he uses several times in A dorian over his version of Impressions, if you play it enough over a C maj7 and an F#alt and you won't need the conversion thing anymore for that line, and so on.

    His lines are really cool though

  11. #35

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    I say just stop wasting your time with his unnecessary crap.

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by RyanM
    I say just stop wasting your time with his unnecessary crap.
    Wow! Tell us what you really think

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irishmuso
    Wow! Tell us what you really think
    He’s had 10 years to reconsider...

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by sjl
    Hi pals.
    I am asking about an example where the activities showed in Martino's Linear Expressions are played in a musical context.
    Do you know any example?
    Yes, wouldn't that be nice :-)

    His book references his solos but his solos don't reference his book.

  15. #39

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    After working on these lines for over fifteen years now, I can hear fragments of 'em in nearly all of his solos...