The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    Any of you guys fans of the guitar/sax duo? Who are your favorites and what do you see as the challenges when you do it? For me, the biggest issue has always been the energy level drop after the sax solo, leaving the guitar just there by itself. Lenny Breau certainly had no trouble with it, but for mere mortals it's another story.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

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    Zoot Sims/Joe Pass was great Duo.

  4. #3

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    I think the "Tears in Heaven" version with Pat Metheny and Joshua Redman from the "Wish" album is one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard.

    Agreement on the energy drop. I play with a sax duo a lot, and generally just forgo soloing. If I do solo, we usually put it before his, or I handle the fun stuff on intro/outro.

  5. #4

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    yeah, listinging to "Blues for Two" right now! OMG, Joe just dropped time we wee bit.... Human!

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecj
    I think the "Tears in Heaven" version with Pat Metheny and Joshua Redman from the "Wish" album is one of the most beautiful things I've ever heard.

    Agreement on the energy drop. I play with a sax duo a lot, and generally just forgo soloing. If I do solo, we usually put it before his, or I handle the fun stuff on intro/outro.

    I like the approach with intros and endings too, but sometimes its got to be traditional.....here is one of my recent attempts

    http://db.tt/EpNXNhCf

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecj
    ...Agreement on the energy drop. I play with a sax duo a lot, and generally just forgo soloing. If I do solo, we usually put it before his, or I handle the fun stuff on intro/outro.
    Me too. Sometimes, we'll play a short section with 2-part harmony or counterpoint, or I'll play faux bass. My duo partner also plays keyboard, so I get to solo then.

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Kleinhaut
    I like the approach with intros and endings too, but sometimes its got to be traditional.....here is one of my recent attempts

    http://db.tt/EpNXNhCf

    That sounded great! The only "drop" in level that I could hear was in volume. That's one thing that I often complain about when a guitar player does a solo - ie I have to struggle to actually hear what he is playing. What is that? I never have to stuggle to hear a sax or a piano or a trumpet- only guitars and basses.

    This doesn't apply to you Mark - I could hear you and you sound awesome - but don't you find in general that guitar players tend to play very quietly in comparison to other instruments?

  9. #8

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    thanks for checking that out Colin. Here is another from the same session with a long intro
    http://db.tt/7UXntBTC

  10. #9

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    I went to a guitar /sax concert with two very good players from toronto with a crowd of a hundred and fifty or so in the audience.

    It might have just been my reading into it, but the guitar guy looked like he was sweating bullets. finally he relented, started using a looper, and looked a lot more relaxed.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Kleinhaut
    I like the approach with intros and endings too, but sometimes its got to be traditional.....here is one of my recent attempts

    http://db.tt/EpNXNhCf
    This is really lovely, Mark. Do you hybrid pick, or are you pocketing the pick while you comp then shifting to it?

    Here's me playing with my sax guy as a duo:

    https://soundcloud.com/evan-cj/04-black-orpheus-manha-de


    I'm the singer/guitar. I'm not brave enough to handle a lot of the more dynamic stuff that you are doing, yet. I'm working on keeping things really simple and focusing on groove right now.

    Nice to have you on the forum. I used to lurk on RMMJG back in the day and have always enjoyed your playing.

  12. #11

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    The only ones I have played with over the years blasted me out of my seat...

    Not a very good time...glad someone else made a good go of it..

    Played with a few trumpet players..had a much better time...

    It does take two to make a duo...

    time on the instrument..

    BTW Mark...I grew up in Columbia County,NY...near the Mass border....great winters there man...I miss them..

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by ecj
    This is really lovely, Mark. Do you hybrid pick, or are you pocketing the pick while you comp then shifting to it?

    Here's me playing with my sax guy as a duo:

    https://soundcloud.com/evan-cj/04-black-orpheus-manha-de


    I'm the singer/guitar. I'm not brave enough to handle a lot of the more dynamic stuff that you are doing, yet. I'm working on keeping things really simple and focusing on groove right now.

    Nice to have you on the forum. I used to lurk on RMMJG back in the day and have always enjoyed your playing.
    It's great that you can sing....it really makes you a trio. Don't you just love when the sax players whip off those fluid lines, build all this energy and then turn it over to you, like....ok, here ya go.... at least when you can sing you have a place to keep it going at the same benchmark of two instruments voice/guitar vs. sax/guitar.

    To your question, on this track I'm holding the pick in my mouth and playing fingerstyle until I switch. I hybrid too on many occasions, but not this one.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by pierre richard
    BTW Mark...I grew up in Columbia County,NY...near the Mass border....great winters there man...I miss them..
    Beautiful country side... reminds me of the years I lived in Maine (except no ocean)

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Kleinhaut
    It's great that you can sing....it really makes you a trio. Don't you just love when the sax players whip off those fluid lines, build all this energy and then turn it over to you, like....ok, here ya go.... at least when you can sing you have a place to keep it going at the same benchmark of two instruments voice/guitar vs. sax/guitar.

    To your question, on this track I'm holding the pick in my mouth and playing fingerstyle until I switch. I hybrid too on many occasions, but not this one.
    It's always a special moment at the beginning of an accompanied guitar solo following the sax-jazz-machine feature.

  16. #15

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    I find that I have the same problem as you do. The energy just kinda stops when the sax player stops soloing. It's also pretty tricky for me to play a solo by myself with no one backing me up. on the other hand though every time I do a sax and guitar duo gig I feel like its gets better and I learn alot.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Kleinhaut
    Any of you guys fans of the guitar/sax duo? Who are your favorites and what do you see as the challenges when you do it? For me, the biggest issue has always been the energy level drop after the sax solo, leaving the guitar just there by itself. Lenny Breau certainly had no trouble with it, but for mere mortals it's another story.
    I love the format but it is very challenging unless one is a master guitarist. You and your friend did a very good job.

    The guitar alone can sound pretty thin right after a sax solo accompanied by rich comping from the guitar. I tried with a saxophonist friend but we only had a couple practices. I found it very laborious... It worked better with chord melody than single lines for sure. One way around may be to have the horn play sustained notes or passing tones to support the guitarist harmonically while he's soloing. Maybe find some inspiration by listening to big bands from the swing era and pick up on a couple ideas from the arrangement? The intro and outro solution proposed above is a good one too.

    A thing that plays in my favour is that I don't feel the need to solo all the time and I am very happy with the supporting role of comping and creating the canvas for the soloist.


    There are a few good guitar/sax duos:
    • Bucky Pizzarelli made a couple good albums with Zoot Sims: Elegiac and Summum
    • Bucky also recorded an album with Scott Hamilton: The Red Door
    • Joe Pass with Zoot Sims: Blues For Two
    • Howard Alden and Ken Peplowski: Pow Wow and Concord Duo Series Vol. 3
    • Philippe Petit and Barney Wilen: Flashback
    • Kenny Burrell and John Coltrane playing the song Why Was I Born?


    Not saxophone, but guitar/horn duos:
    • Ed Bickert and Rob McConnell: Mutual Street
    • Jim Hall and Bob Brookmeyer Live At The North Sea Jazz Festival


    Okay, not duos but in the same vein:
    • Jimmy Giuffre (sax, clarinet), Bob Brookmeyer (trombone) and Jim Hall: Trav'lin' Light
    • Bud Freeman (sax) with George Barnes and Carl Kress (guitars): Something Tender
    Last edited by Eddie Lang; 03-05-2013 at 03:21 PM.

  18. #17

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    Bumping this thread. sure is tough, i did a guitar/sax duo last night, no looper. challenge forsure cause im doing it all, chords, walking bass lines, chord soloing, single line soloing, it is great for me but man it some work forsure. maybe i should use a looper, i dont know..but i like the challenge of just being stuck out there with nothing after the sax player takes a couple choruses. anymore tips?

  19. #18

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    Thanks for bumping the thread because I didn't know about it. I have been jamming with my sax playing friend for several years and have wanted to do some open stages, but I struggle to hold it all together when he drops out. I bought a looper but have never put in the time to be proficient at using it. The idea of doing the intros and endings and supporting him through the body of the song is a panacea that never occurred to me. When I was able to get a double bass player to come over and sit in made all the difference in the world. But then we were no longer a duo,

  20. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Easy2grasp
    Thanks for bumping the thread because I didn't know about it. I have been jamming with my sax playing friend for several years and have wanted to do some open stages, but I struggle to hold it all together when he drops out. I bought a looper but have never put in the time to be proficient at using it. The idea of doing the intros and endings and supporting him through the body of the song is a panacea that never occurred to me. When I was able to get a double bass player to come over and sit in made all the difference in the world. But then we were no longer a duo,
    yup, once the bass player jumps in, make all the difference int he world huh..I have a trio gig coming up Saturday, me, sax, upright.. i do like that sound