The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #376

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    Hey! I had this thread bookmarked from years ago. Glad to see it's still going, I'm gonna have to sit down one night and read from the beginning. Herb's my favorite guitar player not named Wes.

    I updated my transcription of Herb's "When Lights Are Low" : WHEN LIGHTS ARE LOW INTERACTIVE TAB by Herb Ellis @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com

    There's a link in the tab description to a YouTube video of the song. One of my favorites, and some really great major scale licks to learn. Next up: It Might As Well Be Spring.

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  3. #377

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnzo

    I updated my transcription of Herb's "When Lights Are Low" : WHEN LIGHTS ARE LOW INTERACTIVE TAB by Herb Ellis @ Ultimate-Guitar.Com
    Nice! I love that tune.



    (Herb's solo starts around the 1:00 mark, but it's all good. Great groove here.)

  4. #378

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    Nice! I love that tune.

    (Herb's solo starts around the 1:00 mark, but it's all good. Great groove here.)
    I've been looking for this trio's version of "It Might As Well Be Spring". I can't find it anywhere, and I don't just mean on YouTube, I mean a copy anywhere. It's like it no longer exists. It's on the album "Triple Treat 2" I'd love to be able to listen to it before I decide with version of that tune I want to tackle next.

  5. #379

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnzo
    I've been looking for this trio's version of "It Might As Well Be Spring". I can't find it anywhere, and I don't just mean on YouTube, I mean a copy anywhere. It's like it no longer exists. It's on the album "Triple Treat 2" I'd love to be able to listen to it before I decide with version of that tune I want to tackle next.

    It's on the "Triple Scoop" CD, a 2-CD set containing Triple Treat I, II, and III. 25 tracks total.
    Monty Alexander/Ray Brown/Herb Ellis - Triple Scoop - Amazon.com Music

  6. #380

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    It's on the "Triple Scoop" CD, a 2-CD set containing Triple Treat I, II, and III. 25 tracks total.
    Monty Alexander/Ray Brown/Herb Ellis - Triple Scoop - Amazon.com Music
    I honestly don't know how I missed that. Because I saw that, but..oh well. Problem is, the only CD player I have is for PC and in a box somewhere.

    Edit: ahh the hell with it, bought it anyways. I'll take it to the library or something and rip it if need be. This is a great album for $12.

    And to keep this on track, I dusted off my "Swing Blues" book. I never took to any of these "shapes" ideas, but maybe I'll give it another try.

  7. #381

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnzo

    And to keep this on track, I dusted off my "Swing Blues" book. I never took to any of these "shapes" ideas, but maybe I'll give it another try.
    Herb used 'em. Joe Pass did too.

  8. #382

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    I expanded on some of the work Mark did earlier in this thread (and maybe later, I've only read the first three pages so far) with a PDF of the shapes, the shapes connected, and then a series of scales with the shapes outlined with the rest of the notes shown. I also did a page with the Dom7 scales in the keys of C, F and G (for the Blues in C).

    The link is to my google drive.
    HerbEllisShapesScales.pdf - Google Drive

    I listened to the Blues in C last night, and learned the first few measures. I'm working on trying to visualize the shapes along with the chord changes, which is something I've never really done, so it's an old dog/new trick sort of deal. One thing tho, I really find the solo that Herb plays for this a little "stilted" maybe. What I mean is it doesn't sound to me like a Herb solo that flows. It's like he composed this solo, and I'm having a hard time getting the feel of it.

  9. #383

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    Thanks Mark and Bahnzo for the work here -- much appreciated by me, and I'm sure others.
    I agree the Blues In C is a bit stilted but it has enough interesting lines in it to have proved fairly durable for me. I learned it a couple of years back and seem to have incorporated parts of it into regular blues progressions when I jam. I returned to the book recently prompted by discussions here and realized I'd totally moved away from the lines as presented and somehow made them my own (for better or worse!). In a way, that's the idea, right? So I've been trying to get the original back under my fingers without thinking and it's fun the second time around. Definitely need to move onto the next one in the book...You guys keep me motivated - thanks.

  10. #384

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    I don't want to spend $60 (?) for all three Herb books. Which is best?

  11. #385

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    Quote Originally Posted by tomems
    I don't want to spend $60 (?) for all three Herb books. Which is best?
    If you only want one, "All the Shapes You Are" is the best. But "Swing Blues" may be the best one to start with.

  12. #386

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    I'm about 4 pages into the thread, and 2 choruses into the C Blues. I notice what some people were talking about, re: either the transcription being off in places, or some fingering stuff. Not a big issue tho.

    One thing that helps immensely, is using a DAW (Reaper, it's free!) and using that to slow, loop, etc, the solo. Plus I can load in an amp sim and use that to play along. Still trying to "see" the shapes. It's going to take some doing however.

  13. #387

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnzo
    ... the transcription being off in places, or some fingering stuff. ... Still trying to "see" the shapes..
    I slowed down & looped some sections, either to hear the actual Vs transcribed line, or because I could't always hear what he was doing rhythmically - he always lands on his feet but sometimes sounded as if he stumbled along the way, my bad I know. Looping those bits helped.

    I've found it a lot easier to see the shapes once I could play the solos without the book...keep on keepin' on they're all fun to play/steal from.

  14. #388

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    Quote Originally Posted by dot75
    I've found it a lot easier to see the shapes once I could play the solos without the book...keep on keepin' on they're all fun to play/steal from.

    That's what I normally do. Sometimes I check the book if I forget something. (Usually with the longer phrases in the "All the Shapes" book.)

    There's a great bit of advice in Herb's earlier book / tape (now out of print) called "Blues Shapes." Terry Holmes is talking about how it's not necessary to get the solos exactly right. (For one thing, it's hard to notate all the nuances of what Herb plays.) The main thing is the FEEL of it. Herb had a great time feel. (Freddie Green remarked on how good Herb's time was.) I like to play them without backing. If they hang together solo, I figure I'm doing something right, even if it's not exactly what Herb did. And it's good to 'sing' them while playing them. (Or grunt / hum, as Herb does.) They seem to hang together better that way.

    I think for each of us, the way we get them to hang together is the way we most naturally play. That could vary for each of us and still be good. That's how we find our own voices.

  15. #389

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    Messing with my new Focusrite iTrack Pocket. Thought I'd take a stab at the chorus from memory. I do like it, though I don't do it justice here. I think the second pass is better than the first.


  16. #390

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    Terry Holmes is talking about how it's not necessary to get the solos exactly right. (For one thing, it's hard to notate all the nuances of what Herb plays.) The main thing is the FEEL of it. Herb had a great time feel.
    I can very much agree with that. From transcribing "When Lights Are Low" and now combing thru "Swing Blues", what Herb plays is really dependent on how he plays it. He has a certain way of playing that I can only describe as "weaving" around. The Blues in C really shows that.

    One thing I've noticed so far, is how shape 3's (the "D shape") dominant scale meshes really well with shape 5 (the "G7") since they are both really the same, just using slightly different areas of the fretboard.

    I made a diagram.

  17. #391

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnzo
    One thing I've noticed so far, is how shape 3's (the "D shape") dominant scale meshes really well with shape 5 (the "G7") since they are both really the same, just using slightly different areas of the fretboard.

    I made a diagram.
    Nifty! Thank you.
    I'll work with that later today.
    I think all of the greats found some way of getting around their instrument so they didn't have to think about it while playing. (Duh!) The 'shape system' for guitar makes a lot of sense to me, though I haven't made as much of it as I could have. Part of it is the sense that "it can't be that simple!".

  18. #392

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    Hey Mark -- off topic a little but that Focusrite thing...I never knew it existed and now I see they're being cleared out as Focusrite seems to have moved on. Is it the little thing that you slip your phone into? I think even I could use one of those and at $20 or so, I might just grab one.

  19. #393

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    Quote Originally Posted by odel
    Hey Mark -- off topic a little but that Focusrite thing...I never knew it existed and now I see they're being cleared out as Focusrite seems to have moved on. Is it the little thing that you slip your phone into? I think even I could use one of those and at $20 or so, I might just grab one.
    Yeah, they're around $20. Focusrite has moved on to bigger and better (and more expensive) gadgets, but this is a real bargain.

    For starters, you can plug your guitar into it and record video without getting room sound. (You can get room sound too if you want. But you have the option to record guitar direct and nothing else.) The picture is good too. It has some amp simulations you can use too. (You download--free--software called Impact and it has a few amp models, Twin, Brit, AC-30, I think, in addition to Clean.)

    What I'll do later is some of my old songs, plug the guitar in and sing and that's that.

    One thing I don't care for is that a) you have to take your iPhone out of the case to fit it in the ITrack Pocket slot and b) it's easy to tip the thing over. Not dealbreakers, by any means, but factors.

    I'm happy with it.

  20. #394

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    Quote Originally Posted by pants
    Can't say about Herb for sure, but almost all the conventional wisdom on jazz instruction ever puts the blues at the beginning.
    Herb was drenched in the blues. I think it's probably the best place to start. That said, if one was going to buy only one of his books, "All the Shapes You Are" would be my choice. For one thing, it contains shapes that aren't in "Swing Blues".


  21. #395

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnzo
    Here's a video of one of Herb's instructional video's. I see it was posted in page #5 of this thread, but that link is dead.
    I have that on DVD. Great stuff.

  22. #396

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    I have that on DVD. Great stuff.
    Have you watched it recently? Any idea on how/if it fits in with his books?

  23. #397

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bahnzo
    Have you watched it recently? Any idea on how/if it fits in with his books?
    He plays out of shapes. It's much more interactive. He goes over several basic changes and will play four bars and leave four bars open for you to play. Ray Brown plays bass. He gives some good advice, and as is usual, there's not a lot of theory or in-depth explanation.

    He does do some comping and shows the main shapes he uses. There's a booklet with the DVD that contains a transcription of what he plays. There's a LOT of material there.

    I'm about to post the first three choruses of Herb's "Two Shapes Blues" from an old (out of print) book called "Blues Shapes."
    Last edited by MarkRhodes; 01-22-2019 at 09:30 PM.

  24. #398

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    Flubby but what the hell. Making a lot of short videos with my new iTrack Pocket just to get used to it.


  25. #399

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    Alright, I "finished" Blues In C. I'm not going to the trouble of hooking up a web cam I might or might not have in a box somewhere, so here it is with a backing track, mistakes and all. I did take more than a few liberties with the tune and did my own thing where I didn't like what Herb plays.

    Edit: Backing Track on my Google Drive is anyone wants to have it.


  26. #400

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    Flubby but what the hell. Making a lot of short videos with my new iTrack Pocket just to get used to it.
    Mark, what is the model of your Ibanez? Looks like a nice guitar. I used to have a 70's guild hollowbody that I regret selling, but if I get another hollowbody, it'd probably be one of the Ibanez line.