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I've found that for me, learning jazz from books is not very effective. Most the things I 'know well' I've either learned from others directly, from records or by figuring them outmyself. I also find that the 'hardest' part about practicing is devising and choosing what to practice on at any given time. Does that make any sense? But books that put the onus on me to work on stuff by giving me sort of a trail map and exercises to work on work seem to work well...by essentially forcing me to teach myself but giving me a framework to work within.
(e.g. a couple of months ago I purchased "The Tao of Improvisation" by Sheldon Zandboar. The basic premise is that it gives you a two-bar ii-V melody, written in C, and then you mentally transpose it and take it through the cycle of 4ths by playing along with the CD at increasingly fast tempos. I spend about 20 - 30 minutes a day on this and it has really improved my fretboard knowledge, transposition skills, technique and ability to recover from flubbing up!).
I'm looking for a good method book to improve my improvising skills, which are really lacking - definitely the weakest link in my playing. I happened on Tony DeCarlo's book "Gateway to Guitar Improvisation - The Fourth Note Principle" and I was intrigued. I haven't bought it...I'm thinking about it. Any thoughts on his method? Particularly from those with experience with it? It's not a big book - it seems to place the focus on the player to put in the work, which I think is a good thing. I hate that the book has Tab in it, but I can live with that.
There are more established books like Hal Crook's "Ready, Aim, Improvise" that others seem to have good things to say about, but I just want to choose one book and focus on it for a good year or so, maybe longer. I'd like to choose wisely.
One of my concerns is that Tony DeCaprio's books may be too advanced for me; one Amazon reviewer suggested it's for "advanced players" - but I'm not sure whether that means "advanced jazz improvisers" or just "advanced" versus the average rock-and-roller type...
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10-21-2012 10:37 PM
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You can contact Tony on the RMMGJ Usenet forum. You'll be able to discuss one on one with him once you contact him. He appears to be very approachable.
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After reading a few of Tony's columns in JJG mag a few years back, I stopped reading Tony's columns in JJG mag. We all learn in different ways, maybe books are not the BEST way for you, and while I think
Mr DeCaprio's methods would likely be wrong for you, I'd say at the same time that it could be short sighted to eschew books outright without exploring a few. I'm always quick to suggest Garrison Fewell's Melodic Approach to Improv. Let a few others chime in and research the one s that look like they might be something you'd use.
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I have known Tony for a long time, and in my opinion, he is a first-rate musician, teacher, and all around good guy. To get a feel for what he is like in teaching, take a look at these video lesson snippets:
Jazzitalia - Lezioni
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I got in touch with him. I think I may try the book together with some on-line lessons from him.
Regarding eschewing books altogether, I assure you that is not the case. I do question the utility of most jazz books but I know there are some good ones out there.
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**I had heard that you stopped reading my articles, so I decided to cease writing them. As for my method book being the "wrong" book for the gentleman, I am quite lost for words.
Originally Posted by Gertrude Moser
Tony DeCaprio
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Originally Posted by jseaberry
Thank you, James.
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Just based on our preliminary discussions, Tony seems to be a natural teacher. I also perused some of his JJG articles that I found online yesterday - much of it is over my head (which says more about me than the content of the articles), but a lot of it got me thinking and was useful. Everyone learns differently. I'm sure the Fewell book is good too, but I don't think it's for me. In any event, studying a method book in conjunction with lessons with the author seems to be a good way to go.
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I have Tony's Fourth Note Principle, I find it an advanced book with a ton of ideas. real chops builder, too. It assumes you can navigate ii V Is in your sleep, that's not what it's about. Excellent book - when I thinned my shelves it was one that I kept.
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If you didn't like Tony's articles in JJG you won't like his book. Chacun a son gout.
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I'm sorry my post offended you, and with (just) what's written, I can see why it would. Let me say that my comments say much more about me, rather than you or your teaching methods. I have what could be described as zero tolerence for talk of chord scales and modes. To me, there's nothing but chord tones and passing tones, I don't don't care a bit what mode the passing (or altered passing) tones come from. I just don't think in those terms at all when playing and for better or worse, I pretty much tune out when I see or hear "mode speak". FWIW, if I could play as well as you play thinking in those term, I certainly would! At any rate, give the OP's initial statement: Originally Posted by Tony DeCaprio
"I've found that for me, learning jazz from books is not very effective"
I felt your methods (albeit successful and widely followed) would not be right for how he learns. I expressed an opinion based on my experience and preferences. I did not intend to offend or insult you and I appologize that it came off that way.
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** Yes, thank you. Of course, I responded on how it reads. By the way, I do not think or hear in scales or modes, personally (*especially in performance). I have taught utilizing such criteria or referred to it accordingly ( have intently studied)...meaning I have taught several Berklee grads and pre-Berklee enrolleess, for example, in order to speak the language understood by both types. This is akin to being able to travel and live abroad (other languages) and understand and be understood. Again concerning my book? You, evidentally do not own a copy of my book, because my book not only turns the student away from scales and modes, it breaks the spell of only utilizing chord form, position playing (improvising within such possible confines). If you studied my book (really study), I would more than guess that you would actually like it. Originally Posted by Gertrude Moser
As an aside, it is true that many students miss the mark due to the pressure academic pressures involved in getting all that theory under the belt. This is because many do not take the time to develop ear-training abilities. The negotiating factor lays in the balance. Be able to sing the scales and modes without the instrument in hand. Only then can real assimilation begin to blossom.
TD
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I have not only Tony's book but a typed draft he sent me long ago, so I was lucky enough to see its evolution, and in my opinion, his book is just as good as they come. The ideas are not on modes/chord-scales, but on emphasizing certain notes at certain points in the line to make the overall line sound appropriate even if the notes in between don't match the particular chord-of-the-moment. I think it is a refreshing approach and I have used his book to my personal gain.
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I knew nothing of Tony and his teaching method (until I read this thread).....but he does have some heavy cats giving him/it props....
“Tony DeCaprio has found a totally unique and revolutionary concept for teaching improvisation. There is nothing even remotely similar on the market. The approach is both refreshing and brilliant. I highly recommend this book to both students and teachers.”
Jimmy Bruno
Tony DeCaprio - Jazz Guitarist Maestro
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Yeah, I saw that too. Bruno is a no-nonsense kinda guy, so I take his thumbs-up seriously. Sid Jacobs and Joe Diorio also gave the book high praise, as did Steve Lukather. Quite a fab foursome of endorsers! I put Tony's book on my Amazon want list. It'll be the next book I buy. Originally Posted by djangoles
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I have only taken one lesson with Tony so far, but it is clear that he is a very good jazz educator. I picked up his book as well. It is not easy stuff, but I think the methodology is sound.
After spending the last year focusing on learning "licks" via transcription, I think it is time for me to focus on more spontaneous improvising (not to judge one approach against another...but I just want to go in this direction), and this book is well-suited for that. Of course "licks" will still be a part of my routine, but connecting what I hear to what comes out is where I now want to focus.
The coolest, hippest line I ever came up with is very similar to the sort of playing that I think this book is going to take me towards - to quote an excerpt from Tony's book, making consonance from dissonance.
I also highly recommend lessons with Tony. He is a very good 'coach' (my term, not his).
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Awesome. totally awesome. Stick with TD and you'll do fine.
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Does anyone have any comments with regard to how TD's Fourth Note Principle compares with Galper's Forward Motion? In terms of consecutive eighth notes, the former targets focus notes (e.g. 3rd and 7ths) on the 4th and 8th notes of the measure, while the latter targets resolution on the 1st and 5th notes (beats 1 & 3) of the measure. Galper's book has a cogent argument for his approach, but Tony's doesn't spend much time explaining why he advocates his approach. However, Tony's book has a detailed plan on how to implement his ideas, which I appreciate.
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As a teacher you get taught in "teacher school" that there are three basic ways students learn. Seeing, reading, and doing. This is the basic 101 of teaching - there 's a whole lot more to read about this from educationalists and each expert will add some more ways than the basic three.
This all means, that you learn best in the way best suited to how your brain processes new material. Either from charts, diagrams, visual cues. Or from reading text and notation. Or from being shown tunes whilst you sit side by side and go through a song note by note. We are all a combination of all of these, but one will be your preference. I love charts, diagrams, and visual cues.
You need to work out what works most effectively for you - it will be the fastest way you learn, the best way to remember, the best way you gain insight. If you are a 'Reader' and you opt for a DVD course, you'll feel like sometthing is missing and it didn't work for you. Having a personal teacher really gets around these rpoblems because the teacher does the work to find out how you learn best and tunes their teaching to your style of learning.
In summary, for the solo learner, this is all about learning to learn. Finding your focus on personal preferences to learning.
Try this...if you and I were going to meet at a bar, how would you like me to give you instructions to get there? Take you along your ruite there a few days earlier to show you the way. Draw you a map showing your location and the map between you and the bar? On a list of directions starting at your house and telling you to go left and right at various landmarks until to get there. The answer indicates whether you are a reader, visual learner or kinesthetic (a show and do). Being a visual, I will always choose the map.Last edited by ChrisDowning; 01-04-2014 at 05:52 AM.
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If I may interject Mr. DeCaprio, what is the title of your book? I'd like to buy one for myself. Originally Posted by Tony DeCaprio
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His book is entitled: Gateway to Guitar Improvisation (A Guitarist's Guide to the Revolutionary "Fourth Note" Principle), published by Hal Leonard.
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Tony concept not clear to me
In the 4/8 notes concept the focus notes is on the and of two and four. I thought that the target note should be on three and one.
Can any help me to better understand Tony concept?
Thanks, Ronen
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I see my son practicing this way, and feel awed, and frankly, inadequate! He's got his mother's passion and his father's intelligence. I comfort myself that I've got an ear for melody and phrasing, and can convey emotion. I'm old enough to accept my limitations....and to be grateful for my gifts! You're an awesome teacher and player. Best wishes and welcome to California, where everyone is so happy that they are sincerely nice a lot. (I'm from NJ. I'm only nice once in a while.)
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Hello fellow guitarists...
I am now teaching private lessons utilizing ZOOM as my new venue. ZOOM permits the learner to video record direct. Each lesson is an hour and a half long and I don't hold back.
Cheers,
Tony DeCaprio
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