Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing Chapter 13, 14 & 15

**fep** · 09-26-2012, 03:05 PM

I wrote a few more:

**stevebellinger** · 09-27-2012, 04:32 AM

Hi Fep,

Great set of Licks with the blues feel and nice sound.

I'll take a look at the music score site, thanks for the tip.

If it's easy to use I'll give it a go, but it's time! Licks, repertoire

modern method book 2 which is getting a bit hard for me at the moment.

melodic studies, scales arps ect you know how it is.

but great job fep

Steve

**stevebellinger** · 09-27-2012, 06:57 AM

Hi again,

It seems that my Logic has some sort of score editing built in

so I'll give it a try!

Steve

**Frank67** · 09-28-2012, 12:06 AM

Hi Steve,

Is Logic worth it over GarageBand? i use GB for a while and was always happy with it.

I found Musescore relatively easy to use as well but i have no reference point as I never tried to write music before.

I also wrote a couple of licks finally but did not get to record them due to business travel. Probably over the weekend.

Have a nice day everybody and enjoy practice!
Frank

**stevebellinger** · 09-28-2012, 12:40 AM

Hi Frank,

Look forward to the licks, as for logic, I like it, I think it has a few more features than gb but i haven't used gb so can't really comment, if it,s worth the extra cash. Managed to score my licks, but when i insert them on this forum you need binoculars to read them! bit more playing around.

Steve

**stevebellinger** · 09-28-2012, 12:56 AM

Just got me licks posted, and the size is ok Lol

**Frank67** · 09-30-2012, 07:00 AM

Dear friends,

I got myself pretty sick with a flu on my business trip but since the fever has went down today, I figured I might as well do something useful and record a few licks (but I missed a few notes as I'm not quite on top of it today).

Here are a couple of Situation 1 licks that I wrote (and I also took the liberty to play one from Steve and one from Fep as well that I both liked a lot).

The Score for the licks is attached (how do I actually manage to have it shown inside the post?).

{Unfortunately I played the licks in a different order than they are notated - apologies! The score also has a few mistakes where I decided more or less spontaneously to play something different (that's me and licks - no discipline...) - and then I ran out of energy to change to notation - i hope you don't mind.}

EDIT: score got fixed. (but probably I still screwed up on the correct use of the # and b's, right fep?)

I must confess that I have not been overly analytic in doing these licks - just fooling around and stopping for writing writing it down when it happened to sound acceptable to me.

On the II chord the notes come from the Dm7 and Fmaj7 arpeggios (with one exception where I deliberately started from a non chord tone to create a bit of tension). I also used sequences from the dorian mode on this chord.

On the V chord I guess it is mostly the altered scale, but lick 8 has a diminished arpeggio and lick 6 a Em7b5 arpeggio. looking at the score, I guess my favorite color tone is the b9 which occurs much more frequently than any other. There also is a bit of chromaticism.

When I don't pay attention to it, I guess I would nearly always resolve to the 3rd of the I chord which seems to result in the greatest tension relieve. So some of these licks resolve deliberately on another note.

... that's it for today .... now more tea.

**stevebellinger** · 09-30-2012, 09:41 AM

Hi Frank,

well played, plenty of cool licks.

Less of the tea, get yourself a hot toody!

steve

**fep** · 09-30-2012, 08:16 PM

Hi Steve,

I just played through your licks that you notated. It is a lot of fun to play those licks. I think it's another level of appreciating them to actually get them under my own fingers. I really like that you notated them, this is really a cool idea.

**fep** · 09-30-2012, 08:30 PM

Hi Frank,

Sounds great. I want to pull up your pdf and play through them a bit later. I see you are all over the neck, setting the bar again. Thanks for playing my lick, that was fun.

I hope you are feeling better soon.

**stevebellinger** · 10-07-2012, 10:01 AM

Hi Guys,

Here's my attempt at some min 251 licks. Sit 2 I think?

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

**Frank67** · 10-07-2012, 10:28 AM

Dear Steve

That was very impressive and sounded really great! Great chops too. Any chance you write the licks down? I also noted that you were moving into the "disguising" part - really well done!

I have been working on the chapter 14 assignment and tried to incorporate our major 251 licks into songs. Hopefully I manage to record and post later today.

Cheers,
Frank

**Frank67** · 10-07-2012, 01:57 PM

Dear friends,

I had a little time to practice using the licks over an actual song (as recommend by Elliot in chapter 14). The song of choice is "Tune up" from Miles Davis - frankly speaking I don't like to much but it fits the bill in consisting of basically four consecutive 2-5-1's in major (D-major, C-major, Bb-Major, D-major). The only differences is that in the fourth bar of the Bb-Major there is the IV (Eb-major) and the final D-major set of four bars resolves into Bbmaj7 and a Em7-A7 turnaround. The only place where the licks needed to be adjusted is that bar 15.

Since I wanted to be able to do 48 bars without repeating myself I made two more simple licks. The updated and corrected score for all the licks (except those two that I borrowed from fep and Steve) is in the attachment.

To make it a bit more interesting there is a comping section in the beginning - I hope you don't mind. I didn't really get into the "disguising" part. That is on the practice lick.

I wanted to share a sentiment here - in doing this exercise I honestly felt a bit awkward. When we just practice scale and stuff all is fine - it is not meant to be music. Here we come to a place where it *is* music. Normally in a solo what should happen is to express the emotions that one has with respect to the melody and the overall feel of the song. Now in using the pre-made licks that were made with a totally different mindset I felt greatly detached from the song. I can recognize that the notes kind of fit but they don't mean anything in the context - I guess a listenener must scratch his head and think "is that really what that guy was associating with that song?"

I feel like, perhaps, a japanese (or for that matter any other foreign) person speaking three sentences of english which might be taken from, say, Shakespeare. Now it will be real-life comedy when that person tries to figure out which bus to take at a bus stop and only has has these three sentences as his/her disposal.

For the task at hand the licks are our little sentences. Eventually one may know enough of them or can adjust them on the fly to arrive at things that actually mean something. So do we have to know thousands of those licks to be able to be fluent in jazz ... boy, that may take a long time :-) Is that how you think about it? If I ask myself how I learned english it might not have been too different ...

sorry for the rant ... it continues to be big fun!

Have a nice sunday everybody.
Cheers,
Frank

**stevebellinger** · 10-08-2012, 12:07 AM

Hi Frank,

Well done, nice sound, like the lick disguise. Especially liked the comping

at the beginning as well.

Will try and get my licks on paper this week.

Need a bit of a favour if it,s possible? off to India in a couple of weeks

for about 5 Months, and not sure of the internet. Would really like to

complete the study group any chance of a pdf or something like that of

the last chapters we will be covering if it,s a problem don,t worry.

Steve

**fep** · 10-11-2012, 06:47 PM

**stevebellinger** · 10-11-2012, 10:51 PM

Hi Fep,

Great set of licks again, we are getting a lot of tools for our song study.

Fep, last note of lick 4?

Seems what i thought was sit 2 on my previous set of licks, was not

Oh well!

Will get round to scoring my last set of licks asap. and put up some

sit 2 licks.

Steve

**Frank67** · 10-12-2012, 02:01 AM

Hi Fep,

Very nice! It is the next thing I have on the schedule as well to make licks for situations 2-4 (yours was sit 3 Steve) and then go more systematically into disguising and more songs. It will take much more practice for me before these licks will come out naturally during improvisations on actual tunes.

Take care,
Frank

**fep** · 10-12-2012, 09:20 AM

Steve and Frank, Thanks for listening.

Steve, the last note of lick 4, yes you are right. I played an A note instead... when I went to record that sounded like the note the lick wanted to go to.

It is the next thing I have on the schedule as well to make licks for situations 2-4 (yours was sit 3 Steve) and then go more systematically into disguising and more songs. It will take much more practice for me before these licks will come out naturally during improvisations on actual tunes.

Frank, I like that plan.

**fep** · 10-12-2012, 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by stevebellinger

Hi Guys,

Here's my attempt at some min 251 licks. Sit 2 I think?

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.

Wow Steve,

That sounded great. These constant eighth note licks really come to life at faster tempos. The ending part, were you played thru the Imaj7 chord, really nice. Were there licks in that last bit?

And playing thru the licks you wrote out, I really like them. I like that they aren't way out there, rather they play well, sound good, and seem like they'll easily become part of your vocabulary (maybe they already have).

Thanks for posting.

**AlsoRan** · 10-12-2012, 09:34 AM

Good, good stuff, man. You had my head bopping from side to side.

**fep** · 10-12-2012, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by FrankLearns

Dear friends,

I had a little time to practice using the licks over an actual song (as recommend by Elliot in chapter 14). The song of choice is "Tune up" from Miles Davis - frankly speaking I don't like to much but it fits the bill in consisting of basically four consecutive 2-5-1's in major (D-major, C-major, Bb-Major, D-major). The only differences is that in the fourth bar of the Bb-Major there is the IV (Eb-major) and the final D-major set of four bars resolves into Bbmaj7 and a Em7-A7 turnaround. The only place where the licks needed to be adjusted is that bar 15.

Since I wanted to be able to do 48 bars without repeating myself I made two more simple licks. The updated and corrected score for all the licks (except those two that I borrowed from fep and Steve) is in the attachment.

To make it a bit more interesting there is a comping section in the beginning - I hope you don't mind. I didn't really get into the "disguising" part. That is on the practice lick.

Sorry, I'm so late listening to this. I've been procrastinating on some non music to-dos and had to get those done and behind me.

The bass line with the occasional chord stabs, really well done. You might want to try some half step approach tones on that bass line. Are you familar with those? You place them occasionally on the last beat before the next chord and it's 1/2 step above or below the root of the next chord and resolves to the root of the next chord (more often a 1/2 step above the next chord root).

The octaves sound great as does the tone of the guitar. (I'm weak at octaves myself, I need to work on it.)

I imagine it's a bit of a task placing all those licks in the tune, a task and a good learning exercise. Well done.

This next comment is subjective and just my opinion and is something I've been thinking about. Most of your licks sound a bit outside. I think it's natural and more interesting for us to write that way, it's more interesting to use the altered scale or the diminish scale, or unusual intervals. They sound cool. I'm drawn to that approach myself.

But, hearing it in the context of the tune got me thinking. I think we need to have inside or more vanilla licks along with these more spicy licks. A little bit of spice goes a long way.

**fep** · 10-12-2012, 10:13 AM

Originally Posted by FrankLearns

I wanted to share a sentiment here - in doing this exercise I honestly felt a bit awkward. When we just practice scale and stuff all is fine - it is not meant to be music. Here we come to a place where it *is* music. Normally in a solo what should happen is to express the emotions that one has with respect to the melody and the overall feel of the song. Now in using the pre-made licks that were made with a totally different mindset I felt greatly detached from the song. I can recognize that the notes kind of fit but they don't mean anything in the context - I guess a listenener must scratch his head and think "is that really what that guy was associating with that song?"

I feel like, perhaps, a japanese (or for that matter any other foreign) person speaking three sentences of english which might be taken from, say, Shakespeare. Now it will be real-life comedy when that person tries to figure out which bus to take at a bus stop and only has has these three sentences as his/her disposal.

For the task at hand the licks are our little sentences. Eventually one may know enough of them or can adjust them on the fly to arrive at things that actually mean something. So do we have to know thousands of those licks to be able to be fluent in jazz ... boy, that may take a long time :-) Is that how you think about it? If I ask myself how I learned english it might not have been too different ...

sorry for the rant ... it continues to be big fun!

Have a nice sunday everybody.
Cheers,
Frank

Well put Frank. I think some 'growing pains' and awkwardness is to be expected. I like your reference to sentences or vocabulary and the comparison to learning a language.

Interesting to think of sentences vs. words. Learn a bunch of words and you can make a much larger number of sentences and an 'infinite' number of paragraphs. It's got me thinking...

Check out post #46 of this thread, this talks of four note cells as being like words and is relevant to what we are studying now:

Approach notes and enclosures anyone?

**Frank67** · 10-12-2012, 10:21 AM

Hi Frank,

thanks a lot for your kind and thoughtful reply. (I actually really liked the sound of your guitar on that latest video too! thanks for the comment!).

I think your comment on the "outside" sounds is spot on and it is a thought that has occurred to me too listening to myself (but it is definitely very useful and I think also the purpose of the group to have that kind of feedback). I guess it was an attempt to sound more interesting and it is probably true that it was at least a bit overdone and I should put in more plain vanilla licks (that are also easier to finger :-)) and only occasionally go for a more outside sound (.... well, listening to Scofield he often sounds very "out" to my ears, yet very classy .... but who am I do draw any parallel :-)).

For the walking bass - there actually is an approach note a half step above or below the root (or, occasionally, an inversion of the original chord). That was the rule that I learned from my teacher - beat one has a chord tone (typically the root), beat 4 has an approach note, the chord stabs are either on beat 1 or beat 1+. I see that I can find the time to write it out tonight to make it more transparent.

Have a nice day!
All the best,
Frank

**Frank67** · 10-12-2012, 12:24 PM

Originally Posted by fep

Interesting to think of sentences vs. words. Learn a bunch of words and you can make a much larger number of sentences and an 'infinite' number of paragraphs. It's got me thinking...

Hi Frank - thanks again

... I think we are thinking similarly. To me quite typically two beats make a "word", 4 bars make a "sentence". And it is entirely true, as you say, that one would enormously enhance once ability to speak by using pre-learned words rather than pre-learned sentences. Like a sentence saying "Oh Dear - this is - a big - damn - MESS" versus "Oh Dear - this is - so sweet - of you" (the '-'s imply two beats) which share the first four words but come to very different conclusions.

It comes down to the question what do we really choose in the end to memorize and internalize to the point of automatism. I always stayed away from licks before because I was never able to use them in a musical way in a musical context (but I always ended up nowhere avoiding them and hence I figured more systematic study is necessary). Now the Elliot book teaches us how to do that in small, recognizable steps. But I am still uncertain whether I'll manage to really incorporate entire licks that stretch over several bars into the music that I'd like to eventually arrive at.

PS: the walking bass line is attached and I hinted at the chords that I used. It is mostly straightforward chords together with a few inversions.

Have a nice day!
Frank

**Frank67** · 10-19-2012, 05:37 AM

Coming back to the discussion with Frank (Fep), I have been doing a bit of study on "plain vanilla" licks. Basically I have reworked 10 licks that I had and avoided practically all colour notes. In the video the 10 licks (2 for each of the 5 positions on the fretboard) are played first in their "vanilla" and then in their more "spicy" version. Sometimes they are pretty different, sometimes more similar. The leadsheet is attached.

Next I'll do situations 2-4, work on disguising and then do a few more songs, where hopefully the awkward feeling of being detached from the music will diminish.

Have a great day everybody!
Frank