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I'm really clumsy at switching from picking to fingerpicking, so I decided to multitask that with playing the arpeggios. Also, I think it's good to once in a while include the chords in the exercise to get that chord to arpeggio connection going.
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05-20-2012 01:29 PM
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Way to go, dude! That's hard to do - congrats.
Originally Posted by gersdal
Well.. first ... this is a major technical breakthrough ...
I've taped a video ... I've created a youtube account ... and I managed to upload the video 
The content is just me doing one of the arps ... It's getting better, nowhere close to perfect... You playing a Gibson there?
Kojo
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Nice work gersdal! YouTube account, video content! Next stop...Facebook! Originally Posted by gersdal
Well.. first ... this is a major technical breakthrough ... I've taped a video ... I've created a youtube account ... and I managed to upload the video
The content is just me doing one of the arps ... It's getting better, nowhere close to perfect...
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Ouch! Don't remind me Originally Posted by onetruevibe
Nice work gersdal! YouTube account, video content! Next stop...Facebook!
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Yes. Gibson Herb Ellis model. Originally Posted by Kojo27
Way to go, dude! That's hard to do - congrats. You playing a Gibson there?
Kojo
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That"s how I'm doing them, Kojo. I'm glad I came late to this party because I got the book from Amazon for fifteen bucks, less than five days after I ordered. (Friday night to Tuesday morning, I think it was.) Originally Posted by Kojo27
I'm nowhere near as fleet as fep on this exercise! But I sense its value and will will work on this lesson daily until I'm pretty good at it before going to the next chapter (-3, I think.)
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Doing arpeggios in all patterns at 150 bpm was a goal of mine:
Last edited by fep; 06-18-2012 at 07:30 PM.
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Way to go Frank!!! Well-played, and I dare say most guitarists in the world couldn't pull that one off. Originally Posted by fep
kj
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Great work Frank on both recent videos! Originally Posted by fep
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Got the book this morning and I'm working through it at the moment. I'm moving through it pretty fast since I thought it'd be beneficial for me to learn all the arpeggio inversions a couple months ago. One part I'm concerned is where in chapter two the book tells me to use alternate picking. I used to alternate pick until about a year where I switched to economy picking (the idea of picking in the direction of the next string). With economy picking it reduces movement in order to reach a higher speed. I've finally felt comfortable with it over the last couple on months and I'm hesitant about switching back to alternate picking. To those of you further in the book and generally more advanced in the study of jazz, is strict alternate picking absolutely necessary?
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fep- I noticed that you seem to economy pick down but alternate while moving up. Is there a specific reason for that?
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I have added this too my study regimen.
Thanks a lot for this thread. I am already earning dividends on this subject. I found inspiration in the videos posted. I don't want to leave this chapter until I really have the arpeggios down cold but I will be following the trail you have collectively blazed for the rest of us.
This forum has brought me so, so far.
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Keep plugging away, folks! I am working on learning the pattern 3 Major/ 4 pattern 4 Minor Arpeggios right now.
I have played around a little working in the Locrian #2 and the Altered Scale and I like the two tonalities. I was struck by the sounds in that they sounded very familiar to me. There are probably countless songs harbored deep in my memory that have used that approach of using the altered scale on the V7 chord. It just felt good.
It was good to know I have a feeling for more that just pentatonic type soloing, as I had at first feared.
Best of luck to you both!
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I am hoping to receive the book next week but in the meantime I have been using FrankLearns worksheets and can now play the Major Pattern 1 arpeggios in sequence. I'll try to post a video later today. Originally Posted by fep
Edit: It would be cool if there was a bunch of us working through the book together so if you've been thinking of buying the book do so now and join me on this exciting journey.
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Hi!! Great forum. I got the book yesterday. Pretty exciting. Is anybody starting the book too? I am practicing chapter 2 now
I hope to post videos too Let's see if doing this I am able to complete a guitar method book hehehe.
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I'm not working through the book anymore per se, but Steve Herberman has me shedding what basically amounts to the connecting game every day, with a couple of differences:
- Rather than focus on positions or shapes, instead, I think about note names and/or whether the note in question is the R, 3, 5 or 7. This gets me out of typical guitar "shape" territory and really solidifies my knowledge of the intervallic makeup of each arpeggio type.
- I do not specifically working the 11 chord progressions, like Elliot has you doing; but instead just take various standards and jazz tunes and play through those changes. At first I stuck to "slow-moving" standards (like You Stepped Out Of A Dream), where there are only chord changes every bar or two. But lately, as I get better, I seek out difficult songs with lots of modulations and other weird harmonic devices (like Giant Steps; Ceora; Windows; Dolphin Dance; and a lot of ballads like Yesterdays or Body & Soul).
It is a really steep learning curve and it is taking a long time, but I am seeing definite progress.
The next thing I will be tasked with sort of extends the connecting game to include not only arpeggios, but scales. Essentially, a chord-scale approach to things. This is actually a lot harder for me, because there are more note choices, and you sometimes have to make executive decisions about the underlying scale based on the beat you're playing on and whatever scale degree you're on. You need to suggest the underlying scale so for instance, starting a major scale on the 4th scale degree doesn't quite sound right, so either you repeat a note and play the third (assuming you're ascending), or skip the 4th and play the 5th. (Or, sharp the 4th for a Lydian sound!)
After I get more facility in the scales, I will be combine the two approaches, with rhythmic variety and some substitutions and alterations, and the result starts really sounding like an actual jazz solo.
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I play lead guitar in a classic rock cover band but have finally decided to really learn jazz guitar. I played trumpet in high school and loved jazz band the best and have always listened to jazz music, but found the idea of learning jazz guitar overwhelming. Originally Posted by JazzCladdagh
Hi!! Great forum. I got the book yesterday. Pretty exciting. Is anybody starting the book too? I am practicing chapter 2 now I hope to post videos too Let's see if doing this I am able to complete a guitar method book hehehe.
So I've started Mickey Baker Vol. 1 and I've decided to add this Joe Elliott book to my practice routine as well. My book is still in the mail, but I've already memorized the pattern 1 arps and am running through them a bit every day to get them under my fingers. I think I'll start working on pattern 4 next.
I would like to give a special thanks to fep for all he has done for both the Joe Elliott and Mickey Baker material. I have enjoyed watching your videos and using your backing tracks on Mickey Baker.
I would like to add that I was a ways into "Chord Tone Soling" by Barrett Tagliarino before deciding to switch to this Joe Elliott book. It looks like they are similar in many ways, but this one is jazz-specific which better suits my goals at this point. Barrett's book is great though and has really improved my playing.
Okay, I'm off to arpeggio hell...
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Don't you mean "arpeggio heaven?"
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Ask me again in a few weeks. Originally Posted by FatJeff
Don't you mean "arpeggio heaven?"
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Not to derail the thread, but I checked out Steve's sight after reading your post. Sounds intriguing, although I am sticking to using this book to guide. Originally Posted by FatJeff
Thanks for the tip.
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I got my book in the mail a few days ago and I can see this is exactly what I've been looking for. I've read through most of the book already and have had light bulbs going off left and right in my head as gaps in my knowledge were filled or concepts that I vaguely understood were explained simply and clearly. Getting this stuff into my fingers is another matter and I can see how this could easily take me two years or more to get through. But that's fine, I hopefully have many years ahead of me.
I now have patterns I maj., II min., and III maj. memorized. I think I'll get pattern IV min. down then stop learning new patterns for a while. I've been working on the connecting game with situation 1 for the last few days and it's coming along more quickly than I expected, but it was a real brain-buster at first.
One challenge I had was figuring out what fingering to use on pattern III maj. with the position shifts. I found a website that shows fingerings for the arpeggios and some I used but others seemed uncomfortable to me so I chose a different fingering. Is there a standard accepted fingering method for these arpeggios with position shifts? I assume everybody does whatever works best for them as I have now done. But as a beginner to this style, I can't clearly see what's ahead and I don't want to choose a fingering method that's going to make things more difficult for me later on.
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No, as far as I know there are no accepted fingerings. Some people prefer shifting, some prefer stretching. For me it depends - I sometimes prefer one, sometimes the other. I guess it is a good idea to have both available.
Enjoy practice!
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Originally Posted by FrankLearns
Thanks for the response, it confirms what I had guessed. I know that on the piano I think about what key I want to hit, not which finger I'm hitting it with. But practicing the "correct" fingering patterns in the beginning gave me good habits even though I'll often play a line where I have to break those rules. And I suppose that will become the case on the guitar as I get more fluent at this style. But at this stage I definitely need to set up a rigid fingering system for myself when playing these arpeggios.
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Ok guys I've just received the book and I've began to work on it.
My background is as follows : I started out by using a key center approach, then ditched it completely to base my improvisations on arpeggios only, with chord shapes as a basis. I really love that approach because for each shape I use, I know where all the chord tones are and I can alter them easily. But I have to move around a lot when I do this so it's not optimal.
Now what is presented in this book is kind of weird for me because I must go back to visualize the key centers like when I first started out *but* think in terms of arpeggios.
So when I practice the arpeggios, should I make an effort to know what are the exact chord tones I'm playing (knowing where is the 3rd, the 5th and the 7th for each one of them) ? This looks like a real headache because even though I'm playing in one single pattern, the position of the chord tones is always different : the root of one arpeggio for example is in the same place as the third of another one.
Oh and another question concerning the strict alternate picking : do you really think this is important ? There are several melodies that require you to sweep 3 or 4 strings and they are impossible to play with alternate picking, so why do we need to be strictly using alternate picking ? Or maybe this is one of those "do it like that in the beginning then ditch it" things ?
Note that I'm not being judgmental about the method here, I just want to understand.Last edited by Nabil B; 05-12-2013 at 05:11 PM.
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Cool PJ, I'm glad you are posting with this group.
I can't remember if the author said to know the scale degrees of the arpeggios but I think it's real useful if you do.
The alternate picking is really for those that haven't already developed the technique. It's really not what the course is about. I believe there is a post somewhere where someone wrote to the author regarding the alternate picking, it's not important. I believe the alternate picking was designed to help students feel the eighth notes and feel the 8 notes to a bar more easily.
I just watched the youtube video I posted above, I'm not using alternate picking on that one. It looks to be economy picking.
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