Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing Chapters 2 and 3

**Frank67** · 05-07-2012, 01:31 PM

I had a moment today and took a quick take on the Autumn leaves arpeggio study.

It is five choruses, one for each position. It is fun to do!
Have a nice day everybody!

**Frank67** · 05-07-2012, 01:36 PM

PS: fep - hope we'll have a sundowner together some day :-)

I actually was in San Diego in march for a conference and *loved* it there. I was at the Croce bar with my wife and a real nice band was playing and i was chatting a bit with the guitar player - a very nice guy (Steve Wilcox is his name if I remember correctly. He had a nice old Gibson Barney Kessel). Won't get there too often though as i am based in germany.

**pantz** · 05-07-2012, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by FrankLearns

I had a moment today and took a quick take on the Autumn leaves arpeggio study.

It is five choruses, one for each position. It is fun to do!
Have a nice day everybody!

Great clip! I aspire to shift arps that fluidly.

**fep** · 05-07-2012, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by FrankLearns

I had a moment today and took a quick take on the Autumn leaves arpeggio study.

It is five choruses, one for each position. It is fun to do!
Have a nice day everybody!

Cool Frank,

You definitely have this down beyond what the chapters ask for. And that is a good exercise, doing all the patterns in one exercise.

I'd like to point out to everyone, Frank played all the arpeggios in every minor pattern in under 2 minutes. Once you have learned these patterns it really doesn't take much time to do maintenance practice. 5 minutes a day should be enough.

**Frank67** · 05-08-2012, 04:42 AM

many thanks for the friendly comments!

I admit that the sound clip was pieced together from two takes. I am getting more fluent but still make mistakes. I agree that just a few minutes every day during warmup helps a lot. I noticed that it would be difficult for me to change direction midway through the arpeggio and do the next one properly. I guess that is the point of the ercersizes in the next chapters

I took a look this morning into what is following next in the book. I guess we would again treat two chapters at the same time?! This more or less looks like a very central part of the book and one probably should, as Elliot proposes, spend significant time on the connecting game for the standard progressions. Looks like a very useful practice assignment!

**Kojo27** · 05-08-2012, 05:14 AM

Hey guys, I can't find the Autumn Leaves exercise in the book.

My vision is getting better (love those morning shots in the stomach!), but print as small (looks small to me) as that in the Elliot book is at least a month away, so I'm making use of my accidentally-purchased 2nd copy, taking off the spine and scanning the pages for screen reading.

Anyway, a page # will help big time.

kj

**Frank67** · 05-08-2012, 05:26 AM

Originally Posted by Kojo27

Hey guys, I can't find the Autumn Leaves exercise in the book.

no oversight on your end - that exercise is not part of the book (and hence also not part of anybody's assignment at this time). I think it came up when someone here, if I remember correctly it was Jeff, mentioned that he found it too mechanical to just do the arpeggios one after the other. He suggested that practicing with the AutumnLeaves chord progression instead is more fun and more musical. Several others liked that idea and that is how it came up.

To some extent we are jumping ahead of ourselves because the Autumn leaves chord progression already contains the 2-5-1 (Major) and 6-2-5-1 (Minor) "standard situations" that Elliot is talking about in the next chapter. Playing these arpeggios in the way we practiced them is already part of the "connecting game".

**fep** · 05-08-2012, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by FrankLearns

PS: fep - hope we'll have a sundowner together some day :-)

I actually was in San Diego in march for a conference and *loved* it there. I was at the Croce bar with my wife and a real nice band was playing and i was chatting a bit with the guitar player - a very nice guy (Steve Wilcox is his name if I remember correctly. He had a nice old Gibson Barney Kessel). Won't get there too often though as i am based in germany.

Cool Frank, A sundowner sounds good. Let me know when you're coming to town.

**FatJeff** · 05-08-2012, 11:52 AM

FrankLearns is right, the "Autumn Leaves" exercise is not in the book. I "invented" it by taking the minor shapes through the cycle of fourths, rather than diatonically ascending and descending. I did this because I was using my ear to hear my way through the changes, rather than knowing the shapes and using that knowledge to play the arps. When I did that, I discovered that AL is simply a diatonic journey though the harmonized natural minor scale.

I've also horsed around with other progressions: ascending fifths, descending whole steps, etc. These take the ear out of the equation and force me to recognize shapes and scale degrees, rather than relying on my hearing a familiar progression.

**Kojo27** · 05-08-2012, 09:53 PM

Originally Posted by FrankLearns

no oversight on your end - that exercise is not part of the book (and hence also not part of anybody's assignment at this time). I think it came up when someone here, if I remember correctly it was Jeff, mentioned that he found it too mechanical to just do the arpeggios one after the other. He suggested that practicing with the AutumnLeaves chord progression instead is more fun and more musical. Several others liked that idea and that is how it came up.

To some extent we are jumping ahead of ourselves because the Autumn leaves chord progression already contains the 2-5-1 (Major) and 6-2-5-1 (Minor) "standard situations" that Elliot is talking about in the next chapter. Playing these arpeggios in the way we practiced them is already part of the "connecting game".

Ah - I see. "Autumn Leaves" is dear to me. Not so crazy about Clapton's version, but even it is tolerable. Eva Cassidy's version? WHOA!!!!!! Those are vocals (though Clapton solos GREAT, in his style - and I mean GREAT.)

Anyway, good job, FrankL. I can't do them all in a seamless row without screwing up, but I'm working on it. Very impressive.

Originally Posted by FatJeff

FrankLearns is right, the "Autumn Leaves" exercise is not in the book. I "invented" it by taking the minor shapes through the cycle of fourths, rather than diatonically ascending and descending. I did this because I was using my ear to hear my way through the changes, rather than knowing the shapes and using that knowledge to play the arps. When I did that, I discovered that AL is simply a diatonic journey though the harmonized natural minor scale.

Yeah, it is a "...journey through the harmonized natural minor scale." Cool. And a very good exercise for the Elliot book. Good job, Jeff.

**FatJeff** · 05-09-2012, 12:45 AM

OK since fep has been hounding us to upload videos of us playing, here's a half-assed attempt. Major arps, Elliot's Patterns I and IV (Shapes 3 and 7 according to Bruno).

**Kojo27** · 05-09-2012, 04:21 AM

Originally Posted by FatJeff

OK since fep has been hounding us to upload videos of us playing, here's a half-assed attempt. Major arps, Elliot's Patterns I and IV (Shapes 3 and 7 according to Bruno).

Great job, Jeff! Smooth and even; I'd say you have them down pretty well. And it's tough work... so congrats.

Also, I dig your right hand. I've recently switched to "floating," and to picking mostly from the elbow (everybody groan together) as Django did (now everybody stop groaning.)

Are you holding your pick with two fingers?

kj

**onetruevibe** · 05-09-2012, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Kojo27

Super, Brian! Good job. I'll use this a LOT. I use Leavitt's fingerings, and while they work well, the book's examples are all CAGED-derived. So I'm trying to become comfortable with those fingerings, too. (God, how many scale fingerings can one guy know? I know a 2-octave bebop scale fingering that's awesome, but I don't yet know how to share it... time, time.)

Anyway, it's a great tool Brian - thanks a million.

kj

Thanks Kojo - I appreciate the feedback! I hear you about the number of patterns/shapes/fingerings - totally overwhelming for me. I have a penchant for new things, so often I'll move on to new ideas and concepts too quickly - without taking the time to really apply deeply what I've learned. So, after this book I think I'll take a break from learning about soloing and really dedicate myself to this approach. Considering where I am in this journey-o-jazz, there is plenty here to get by on for a couple years, I think. We'll see if I have the discipline.

Originally Posted by FrankLearns

Very nice Brian, thanks a lot! That must have been quite a bit of work.

Thanks Frank. It is a lot of work, but building things really helps me internalize what I'm learning about. So, it's all good. Besides, it was either build that or cut the grass...

**onetruevibe** · 05-09-2012, 08:44 AM

Originally Posted by FatJeff

OK since fep has been hounding us to upload videos of us playing, here's a half-assed attempt. Major arps, Elliot's Patterns I and IV (Shapes 3 and 7 according to Bruno).

Thanks for posting, Jeff. Nice work on the arps!

Also - nice tort pickguard. Dig that look.

**FatJeff** · 05-09-2012, 10:05 AM

Originally Posted by onetruevibe

Also - nice tort pickguard. Dig that look.

Thanks ... it's a Godin 5th Avenue (acoustic). I think the pick guard is plastic. :-) I like the guitar quite a bit, despite my initial reticence towards it. I'm thinking of getting a Kingpin II with dual P90s.

Originally Posted by Kojo27

Also, I dig your right hand. I've recently switched to "floating," and to picking mostly from the elbow (everybody groan together) as Django did (now everybody stop groaning.)

Are you holding your pick with two fingers?

Yes, two fingers, except I also have a habit of gripping with my middle finger when things get tricky/fast/tough. I tried to do the GB picking thing and it just didn't work for me. I've also tried the Paul Gilbert cinch-down-on-the-pick thing and I can't get that to work well either. So I'm just trying to see how far I can take my "default" pick holding style. It does break down at faster speeds (like when I'm doing my Frank Gambale workouts) but maybe that just needs more practice.

**fep** · 05-09-2012, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by FatJeff

OK since fep has been hounding us to upload videos of us playing, here's a half-assed attempt. Major arps, Elliot's Patterns I and IV (Shapes 3 and 7 according to Bruno).

Nice job Jeff, good time, good technique.

You gave me an idea. My forum name should be 'HoundDog', that's much better than fep (fep = my initials).

**fep** · 05-09-2012, 10:23 AM

This Study Group is really going good.

Gersdal's worksheet, Brian's interactive arpeggio tool, all the ideas of variations on practicing the arpeggios, the recordings. I think this is what it's all about.

Thanks everyone.

**gersdal** · 05-09-2012, 01:23 PM

Here's a corrected version of my pdf. I think (hope) it's all correct now ... Let me know if you find something that has skipped my check.

**onetruevibe** · 05-09-2012, 01:26 PM

Originally Posted by fep

This Study Group is really going good.

Gersdal's worksheet, Brian's interactive arpeggio tool, all the ideas of variations on practicing the arpeggios, the recordings. I think this is what it's all about.

Thanks everyone.

I agree completely - I'm really enjoying this group. Lots of knowledgeable members with a good variety of experience. And thanks to you fep for facilitating for us. It certainly is a gift we all appreciate.

FYI - I blew off weed-wacking the back yard yesterday and added an intervalic fretboard option to the arpeggio tool instead.

When I think about the character of a chord/arpeggio, I think in terms of intervals, not note names.

So, yeah...this makes more sense to me.

**gersdal** · 05-09-2012, 01:27 PM

Originally Posted by fep

This Study Group is really going good.

I'd say mostly thanks to you, Frank!

**Oldern** · 05-11-2012, 11:06 AM

"This is one of the best jazz guitar sites I've ever seen. It might be THE best, in many ways. Matt Warnock's site is awesome, too. In tandem with this one right here, a jazz guitarist shouldn't need much else." - Kojo27.

Based on your comments here, I presume you would not bother to look at Dave’s site and that it would be unproductive for others to do so?

Kojo27, I'm not putting this site down in any way-at least that was not my intention. I spent several months reading the Theory and Getting Started sections and now have worked my way into the Improvisation section. I think this is a great site. However, unlike what you appear to believe, I find nothing wrong with referencing other work if it adds to our body of knowledge, saves us time, helps us learn more, or supplements a course we are taking. Much of the value in this site (jazzguitar.be/forum) lies in the vast world of additional knowledge it references on a daily basis.

If you prefer not to use the site I listed, that is certainly your prerogative. If you find fault with it, I would love to hear your analysis, perhaps in a private message or another forum. I am a novice with jazz guitar music but my ears perk up when someone seems to suggest that we have all that is necessary and that nothing else is needed. This site wouldn’t be here if that were the prevailing attitude of its many contributors.

**Kojo27** · 05-11-2012, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by Oldern

"This is one of the best jazz guitar sites I've ever seen. It might be THE best, in many ways. Matt Warnock's site is awesome, too. In tandem with this one right here, a jazz guitarist shouldn't need much else." - Kojo27.

Based on your comments here, I presume you would not bother to look at Dave’s site and that it would be unproductive for others to do so?

Kojo27, I'm not putting this site down in any way-at least that was not my intention. I spent several months reading the Theory and Getting Started sections and now have worked my way into the Improvisation section. I think this is a great site. However, unlike what you appear to believe, I find nothing wrong with referencing other work if it adds to our body of knowledge, saves us time, helps us learn more, or supplements a course we are taking. Much of the value in this site (jazzguitar.be/forum) lies in the vast world of additional knowledge it references on a daily basis.

If you prefer not to use the site I listed, that is certainly your prerogative. If you find fault with it, I would love to hear your analysis, perhaps in a private message or another forum. I am a novice with jazz guitar music but my ears perk up when someone seems to suggest that we have all that is necessary and that nothing else is needed. This site wouldn’t be here if that were the prevailing attitude of its many contributors.

Hi Oldern,

I meant that Dave's site, which you linked me to, is "...one of the best jazz guitar sites I've ever seen. It might be THE best, in many ways." "This" is one of the best.... meant "this one mentioned in the post I've quoted." I can see how it was confusing.

So, this is YOUR suggested site I'm talking about. I went on to say that Matt Warnock has a great jazz site, too, and that Dave's site, together with Matt's, might be all a body needs for learning jazz guitar. (Besides listening, practice, a good teacher, etc. I meant all you need for instructional material.)

I'm at Dave's site right now, actually - reading his insightful essays ("read this first...) - sorry if the post above was unclear.

kj

**Oldern** · 05-11-2012, 12:01 PM

Thank yew, Kojo27! I thought tentatively and briefly you may have meant that Dave's site was good. I will be extemely interested in any comments you have about Dave's site. I have a ton of stuff I downloaded when he began to shuck old stuff to make room for new stuff.

Take a look at his analysis of You Stepped Out Of A Dream. Even I could learn that tune if I would take the time.

Oldern