The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBallMusic
    I believe I found two errors.

    MPV Imaj7 arp - starting on the third string

    MPIV iim7 arp - missing the b7 on the 6th string.

    That being said, these worksheets are very helpful! I made a few of my own with the same idea of diatonic arps in position. Here are my notes.
    Thanks a lot. The similar minor arps had the same errors (copy and paste). I'll update when I've played carefully through them all.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankLearns
    Hi Fep,

    here is a recording of my pathetic attempts at these arpeggios. It is only an audio.



    I figured out how to to the video (thanks again!) but i made too many mistakes :-( So this audio is pieced together From five separate takes, one for each position. Admittedly some of these positions took a few trials before it was kind of ok - there still mistakes, inconsistencies, timing issues etc but I figured I should get over myself and finally start posting. If I'm perfectly honest, I haven't managed so far to get through all five positions consecutively without screwing up somewhere.

    I don't know about you guys, but I have a much easier time when i don't have to play straight eight notes because it leaves me with the little time I still need to organize my thinking of which one comes next. I guess at the end of the day it all got to be fully automatic but it hasn't happened yet.
    Great job Frank. Like you said, doing straight eighth notes from one arp to the next is much harder than pausing between arps. So I'd say you definately past that 1st level. This sounds really good.

    And, I like your tone and that major 6 chord at the end, brings to mind a fruity rum cocktail (and I don't even drink anymore).

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by onetruevibe
    Thank for taking the time to build these worksheets - looks like a tremendous resource! May I ask what program you used to build the shapes?

    Thanks again! I'll be using these for sure.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by onetruevibe
    So, I'm making progress on the major arps using Pattern 1, but I'm nowhere near grabbing them clean and "at speed." I'm thinking getting all patterns dialed-in will take me a lifetime.

    Also - while I continue working with these arps, I realize I don't always know what chord I'm actually playing...it was just another shape. This scared me - I'm afraid I won't be able to grab one of these arps in context and only in the sequence I've been practicing them.

    So I started saying the chord names aloud as a played each arp. This seems to be helping.

    Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
    Quote Originally Posted by FatJeff
    This is exactly what I'm trying to get away from. Divesting myself from a shape-oriented approach to the fretboard, and thinking more in terms of note names, chord names, harmonic function, etc. is my holy grail. And I'm also working hard on not always playing the arps from the root note.
    +1

    In the back of my mind is the chord I'm playing and the chord I'm going to, both while doing Elliott's arpeggio exercises and when I'm playing music. I prefer to think of the chord "numbers' as opposed to the actual chord names.

    For instance, when doing an Elliot exercise I'm thinking in the back of my mind, "the next arpeggio is over the iii chord".

    I think this is a great tip: While playing an arpeggio think in the back of your mind what the next arpeggio is in terms of chord Roman Numeral numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by jster
    Hey fep, I'm back in town and I got my book, so I'm going to be catching up to you guys soon. Are you planning on one chapter per week? What is the pace? Maybe you said somewhere else. If so, sorry to ask again.
    Yep, maybe about a chapter a week. We'll move foward next week. We are hanging back right now giving some the chance to get their book delivered.

  5. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by gersdal
    I tend to play the minor arpeggios over the Autumn Leaves progression for variation. It feels a little more like making music...
    I gave it a try. I started with straight 1/8th notes.

    Then I just played around a bit but still sticky 99% to the arpeggios (I played a couple chromatic connectors). It took me a little bit of fumbling before I got rolling on the playing around bit.

    This is a fun way to practice the arpeggios.


  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    In the back of my mind is the chord I'm playing and the chord I'm going to, both while doing Elliott's arpeggio exercises and when I'm playing music. I prefer to think of the chord "numbers' as opposed to the actual chord names.

    For instance, when doing an Elliot exercise I'm thinking in the back of my mind, "the next arpeggio is over the iii chord".

    I think this is a great tip: While playing an arpeggio think in the back of your mind what the next arpeggio is in terms of chord Roman Numeral numbers
    Absolutely. That's easy to do when you're counting up and down from I to VII and back. But start moving through the progression by fourths or fifths, and things start to get squirrely fast. :-)

    I also had something of an epiphany about Autumn Leaves the other day. I was working the minor patterns through the CoF (cycle of fourths) and suddenly a lightbulb went off - Autumn Leaves progresses by fourths in a minor key. I've been told that before, but this time I really got it. Duh.

  7. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by JazzReggie
    That's quite helpful and pretty slick, thanks for sharing! Not sure if you're interested in putting any more work into it, but one idea to extend it would be allow the positions to overlay the intervals, so that you can see how the position fits into the whole. You could change the shape and/or color of the position overlay to differentiate from the intervals.
    Quote Originally Posted by FatJeff
    That's really cool, although it took me a little while to figure out that all those positions and intervals were hyperlinked! At first I was like ... uhhh ... OK, those are the names of the notes on the fretboard... :-)

    I agree with Reggie...what would be really cool would be able to select a key or fret position, and have those notes overlay on the fretboard diagram. Also, melodic minor scales, whole-tone, diminished, blues and harmonic minor!
    I'm always open to new ideas and ways to improve - so thanks for the ideas!
    You've offered plenty to keep me busy for, oh, the next couple years.

    To keep this thread on track with chapters 2 & 3, I'll link back to the original thread on this - you can check there for updates.

    And now back to our regular programming...all Joe Elliott, all the time.

  8. #57

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    I will be following along, I have been working on this book for a few months, and just finished it.
    Going to go thru it again to solidify some things,,,,
    Great post,,,,thanks fep

  9. #58

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    My copy of the book has finally arrived! Not sure if I'll be able to keep up with the pace of the study group (existing private lessons, other activities, etc), but I'll definitely be digging into the book and following these threads.

  10. #59

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    For Sale: CHEAP...


    Long story short, I ended up with two copies of the text book for this thread -- the Joe Elliot _Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing_. I have a copy that's still in the unopened Amazon box, pristine and fresh off the press.

    Anybody need a new copy? Send me a PM and we'll work it out ( basically, just PayPal me $11 and its yours.)

    KJ

    Send me a PM for my email

  11. #60

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    My book arrived yesterday, too! I'll tell you what, though, this has already improved my playing. Before starting this book, my improvisation was primarily playing arpeggios starting on the root as the lowest note and running around on scale patterns. Noodling basically.

    By working the Pattern I Maj arpeggios into playing tunes I has already made things sound more interesting. Especially when playing the arpeggios using Pattern I and starting on the low note (or any note other than the root.) Sure, it' probably still classified as noodling, and the changes aren't as obvious, but it sounds more interesting - to me anyhow.

    I'm really excited about where this is taking me!

  12. #61

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    I've been working on chapter 2&3 major and minor arps. I believe I am doing them as the prescribed in the book. I noticed that most of the changes from one arp to the next fall on the off beat or and of the beat. When seems a little awkward. But I forge on.

    Anybody have any comments? Is that not the intention of the author?

  13. #62

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    I don't think the intention at this point is to make strong melodic statements, but to get the arpeggio shapes under your fingers. The music making comes later.

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmsmarr
    I've been working on chapter 2&3 major and minor arps. I believe I am doing them as the prescribed in the book. I noticed that most of the changes from one arp to the next fall on the off beat or and of the beat. When seems a little awkward. But I forge on.

    Anybody have any comments? Is that not the intention of the author?
    +1 to what Jeff said in the previous post

    If you want to forge on after that step then check out the videos I did and posted to this thread. I showed some other ways to practice the arps.

  15. #64

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    Thanks for all responses! I am definitely enjoying this practice! Actually I told my guitar teacher about the forum and the study group and he liked the idea (I don't think that it is potentially harmful for his business. Nothing substitutes for the look of a teacher who turns on the metronome in response to your latest attempts :-)) . Next time I'll bring him the book.

    In response to another comment - I thought our assignment is to play the arps for a given number of measures and not change between them on offbeat or odd times.

    I also fooled around with the Autumn Leaves changes and I agree that it is more fun because the changes are much more along the lines we meet all the time in playing standards. But I also think that we would probably jump too far ahead of ourselves if we would try to make strong melodic statements at this point in time ... I know we all do this to eventually be able to do this and to do it in proper time and without awkward notes. For this assignment I suppose we stick to the mechanical part of running these arps up and down. It'll get sufficiently complicated soon enough :-)

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankLearns
    I also fooled around with the Autumn Leaves changes and I agree that it is more fun because the changes are much more along the lines we meet all the time in playing standards.
    Cool. Any idea for a major type tune? Hey Jude wouldn't be to far off, but kinda not jazz...

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    I gave it a try. I started with straight 1/8th notes.

    Then I just played around a bit but still sticky 99% to the arpeggios (I played a couple chromatic connectors). It took me a little bit of fumbling before I got rolling on the playing around bit.

    This is a fun way to practice the arpeggios.

    Thanks. Enjoyed listening to your take.

  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by gersdal
    Cool. Any idea for a major type tune? Hey Jude wouldn't be to far off, but kinda not jazz...
    Pick a tune that modulates, changes modes, or uses non-diatonic chords, like All Of Me or All The Things You Are. I'm thinking a standard jazz blues would also be excellent fodder. Pick any key. :-)

  19. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatJeff
    Pick a tune that modulates, changes modes, or uses non-diatonic chords, like All Of Me or All The Things You Are. I'm thinking a standard jazz blues would also be excellent fodder. Pick any key. :-)
    Sunny? <big edit here>Ooops! Sunny isn't in a major key. : (

    Sweet Georgia Brown, however, is.
    Last edited by Kojo27; 05-04-2012 at 06:14 PM.

  20. #69

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    Hi

    Gersdal :
    Thanks a lot. The similar minor arps had the same errors (copy and paste). I'll update when I've played carefully through them all.
    Did you updated the charts allready? they are very usefull.

    Here is my try on Arps Pattern 1 Major

    https://www.box.com/s/ce6e87007ad261ecf639

    Thx
    Miguel
    Last edited by MGranada; 05-05-2012 at 08:09 AM.

  21. #70

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    OK, I am catching up to you guys. I am enjoying this quite a bit. I am not sure whether I am going to put up any mp3s for a while. I tune in 4ths and so I have a somewhat different set of issues to address. In particular, in addition to the arpeggios within the scales, there are other (more musical and riffy) forms that fly out of the scale forms. So I have choices about how I want to tweak Elliott's exercises. But, it seems I should be able to work through Elliott's exercises with all my scale patterns systematically and pretty quickly.

    For the Chapters 2 and 3 exercises, I am going through them with pauses just as Elliott does on the CD. But looking forward to the connecting game, I have a question for you guys. Elliott has you run up/down the arpeggios and then connect them with the nearest note. A bit later on he tells the student to switch directions and mix it up a bit. But here is my question. Leaving Elliott and his pedagogy aside for the moment, and leaving aesthetics aside for the moment, how much jazz is there that is roughly like that? I.e., that is going up (down) one arpeggio and then connecting by means of the nearest note to the next one arpeggio at the next bar? Is there a bunch of bebop like that? I can appreciate using arpeggios. I can appreciate changing them as the chords change. I can appreciate swinging eighth notes. I can appreciate running a bit up or down in them. I can appreciate connecting them smoothly. But I am having trouble appreciating the importance of going straight up and then connecting to the mathematcially nearest note. Anybody have any thoughts on that? The reason I am asking has to do with the options I have for tweaking Elliott's exercises. Any videos of highly mathematical arpeggio work from the history of jazz would be appreciated!
    Last edited by jster; 05-05-2012 at 03:35 PM.

  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by jster
    Elliott has you run up/down the arpeggios and then connect them with the nearest note. A bit later on he tells the student to switch directions and mix it up a bit. But here is my question. Leaving Elliott and his pedagogy aside for the moment, and leaving aesthetics aside for the moment, how much jazz is there that is roughly like that? I.e., that is going up (down) one arpeggio and then connecting by means of the nearest note to the next one arpeggio at the next bar? Is there a bunch of bebop like that? I can appreciate using arpeggios. I can appreciate changing them as the chords change. I can appreciate swinging eighth notes. I can appreciate running a bit up or down in them. I can appreciate connecting them smoothly. But I am having trouble appreciating the importance of going straight up and then connecting to the mathematcially nearest note. Anybody have any thoughts on that? The reason I am asking has to do with the options I have for tweaking Elliott's exercises. Any videos of highly mathematical arpeggio work from the history of jazz would be appreciated!
    I'd say I have not heard bebop players that run up and down arpeggios so mechanically as the Elliott exercises. They will play a few notes of an arpeggio, then some scale or chromatics, target a chord tone, add some silence, motifs etc.

    And I think some of us may find as we are learning these new "pathways" that we will sound too mechanical for a while.

    I also think that this is a good stepping stone to really get our hands/mind/ears around these arpeggios. It's also helping me think ahead and keep track of what chord is coming next.

    I'm planning on following the book really closely. Get comfortable doing these exercises Elliott's way first. After that, I think it's fine to get creative and try other things. Just like the variations we have come up with in this thread. But, I repeat, I'm going to get it down Elliott's way first.

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    I'm planning on following the book really closely. Get comfortable doing these exercises Elliott's way first. After that, I think it's fine to get creative and try other things. Just like the variations we have come up with in this thread. But, I repeat, I'm going to get it down Elliott's way first.
    Yep, when it's a "methodical approach" to something as vast and as sprawling as how to play jazz, you've clearly wasted your money and time if your approach is to pick and choose elements of a concise, specific way of doing this thing. Especially when this "way" is allegedly proven to work.

    Whether we're satisfied with *how* it works... we'll see.

    So I'll try my best to follow Elliot's method. So far I've abandoned only his insistence on alternate picking, and his scale fingerings.

    kj

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kojo27
    So I'll try my best to follow Elliot's method. So far I've abandoned only his insistence on alternate picking, and his scale fingerings.

    kj
    Ha ha, that's funny to me. That's exactly how I feel too.

    As you know I'm working on a new picking technique that includes economy picking when moving from a lower to higher adjacent string. It's easy to fall back into long-time-ingrained old picking habits. So I'm not about to abandon economy picking for these exercises.

    But I'm good with alternate picking and don't need to work on that. That suggestion by Elliott, while a good suggestion, is not really what this book is about.

  25. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    That suggestion by Elliott, while a good suggestion, is not really what this book is about.
    I agree completely, however his patterns do seem to be foundational to his approach. I'll be interested to learn as we go along how useful his book is for those who don't use his patterns and if the different fingerings used provide any additional efficiencies. Elliott's patterns seem pretty stinking efficient to me, but I'm a complete noob. I could be off track.

    Update on my practice - I've started with the Minor Patter II arpeggios. I have them dialed in pretty well, but still have to pause at each change for a couple beats to remember what comes next. I'm going to start using fep's suggestion of thinking always thinking about what's coming next.

  26. #75

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    In the interest of not spending 90 minutes a day just on this material, I'm going to pare down my practice to just using Elliot's shape 1 and shape 4. (Shape 3 and Shape 7 in Bruno parlance.) Those are shapes that don't require any shifting and they cover the fretboard fairly well, so it should be a good compromise for me.