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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by onetruevibe View Post
    I realize I don't always know what chord I'm actually playing...it was just another shape. This scared me - I'm afraid I won't be able to grab one of these arps in context and only in the sequence I've been practicing them.
    This is exactly what I'm trying to get away from. Divesting myself from a shape-oriented approach to the fretboard, and thinking more in terms of note names, chord names, harmonic function, etc. is my holy grail. And I'm also working hard on not always playing the arps from the root note.

    What I've been doing to try to subvert thee tendencies is to pick a fret position on the neck (e.g. 5), and use that as my "base" as I work all the possible shapes from that area. So, assuming I'm doing the diatonic major exercise, I might first use my middle finger on the 5th fret as "home," and work Amaj7-Bm7-C#m7-Dmaj7-Em7-F#m7-Gm7b5-Amaj7 from there. Then, staying within the vicinity of the 5th fret, I move the "root" of the exercise to the 7th fret (B), and go off that fret with my pinky. So now I work Bmaj7-C#m7-D#m7-Emaj7-F#m7-G#m7-A#m7b5-Bmaj7 from that position. Next I move the "root" of the exercise to the A string, the 5th fret (D, middle finger), then to the A string 7th fret (E, pinky), then finally to the D string 5th fret (G, middle finger). In that way, I've covered what I think are all 5 positions in one area of the fretboard. There is a little bit of shifting required to accommodate all the notes but I stay within the general vicinity of the 5th fret. This is like the idea Jimmy Bruno talks about on his site of using the "front" and "back" of the hands to base runs off of.

    The specific thing I'm doing to get me away from thinking about starting on the root during this exercise, is to start as far down as I can within the chord-of-the-moment on the low E string, and as high as I can on the high E string. So, let's say for the sake of example I'm doing the one with the "root" of the exercise on the 7th fret of the A string (E, using my pinky). This is position 1 as Elliot would call it, right? So instead of starting my exercise on E, I would start it on the 4th fret of the low E string (G#, the 3rd of Emaj7, using my index finger). This not only frees me from having to put my hand into another position to accommodate Position 1 in the key of E, but it also frees my mind and ears from having to hear a maj7 arp from the root. Instead, I ascend from the 3rd. And, I'm training myself to recognize diatonic intervals in various places on the fretboard. My brain sees the E on the 7th fret of the A string, and I then say to myself "Ah! I can reach the 3rd of E, a minor 6th below it, on the next string down."

    I anticipate that this methodology of recognizing intervals is going to eventually allow me to accommodate other "flavors" of chords (e.g. dom7#11, min-maj7, etc), and will become a natural stepping stone into chord-scale playing, which is something I want to get into at some point in the not-too-distant future. If I can recognize all the intervals of the chord tones, then filling in between them (and thereby realizing a full scale) should not be too difficult.

    I don't have any idea if this makes sense to anyone else.

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  3. #52

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    Hey fep, I'm back in town and I got my book, so I'm going to be catching up to you guys soon. Are you planning on one chapter per week? What is the pace? Maybe you said somewhere else. If so, sorry to ask again.
    Favorite Musician: Pythagoras

  4. #53

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    Slow going on the arp practice for me too, although I've already started looking ahead at some of the situational playing, to mix it up a bit. Right now I'm also in two new bands, learning a lot of music, so my time for other study is pretty tight. Nonetheless, I've been going through the arp practice as much as possible. I'll definitely post some tracks at some point.

    things I've learned:

    I'm stronger in the natural major than the natural minor.
    Although I'm getting better at it, like Jeff mentioned, my habit is also to practice arps starting on the root and going to the root (whether that be one, two, or three octaves). I'm trying to break that bias.

  5. #54

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatJeff View Post
    So instead of starting my exercise on E, I would start it on the 4th fret of the low E string (G#, the 3rd of Emaj7, using my index finger). This not only frees me from having to put my hand into another position to accommodate Position 1 in the key of E, but it also frees my mind and ears from having to hear a maj7 arp from the root. Instead, I ascend from the 3rd. And, I'm training myself to recognize diatonic intervals in various places on the fretboard.
    This is EXACTLY what I stared doing for that exact reason. Hopefully I can transfer into my playing. We'll see.

    Quote Originally Posted by FatJeff View Post
    I anticipate that this methodology of recognizing intervals is going to eventually allow me to accommodate other "flavors" of chords (e.g. dom7#11, min-maj7, etc), and will become a natural stepping stone into chord-scale playing, which is something I want to get into at some point in the not-too-distant future. If I can recognize all the intervals of the chord tones, then filling in between them (and thereby realizing a full scale) should not be too difficult.
    Jeff - check out this website I built to help me better "see" the layout of an intervallic fretboard. For me to learn new things, I usually have to build a physical representation of my understanding (which is also why I asked gersdal how he made his patters worksheet). That's what this is - it may be helpful to others and it might not. YMMV. It's set up using the Major Mode names, because that was my original approach, but now that I'm staring to see things more a just a big pool notes/intervals, I may change it. Just click on the mode name and drag the intervals onto the fret board. This was inspired by conversations I was having with TruthHertz.
    Don't practice until you get it right. Practice until you can't get it wrong.

  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by gersdal View Post
    Frank, I'll try to make a recording when I'm relatively pleased with my playing. I'm not yet.

    I've made myself some worksheets for the arpeggios. Hope that they can be useful for others as well. Please let me know if you find errors in them.
    I believe I found two errors.

    MPV Imaj7 arp - starting on the third string

    MPIV iim7 arp - missing the b7 on the 6th string.

    That being said, these worksheets are very helpful! I made a few of my own with the same idea of diatonic arps in position. Here are my notes.

  7. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by JBallMusic View Post
    I believe I found two errors.

    MPV Imaj7 arp - starting on the third string

    MPIV iim7 arp - missing the b7 on the 6th string.

    That being said, these worksheets are very helpful! I made a few of my own with the same idea of diatonic arps in position. Here are my notes.
    Thanks a lot. The similar minor arps had the same errors (copy and paste). I'll update when I've played carefully through them all.

  8. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by onetruevibe View Post
    Jeff - check out this website I built to help me better "see" the layout of an intervallic fretboard. For me to learn new things, I usually have to build a physical representation of my understanding (which is also why I asked gersdal how he made his patters worksheet). That's what this is - it may be helpful to others and it might not. YMMV. It's set up using the Major Mode names, because that was my original approach, but now that I'm staring to see things more a just a big pool notes/intervals, I may change it. Just click on the mode name and drag the intervals onto the fret board. This was inspired by conversations I was having with TruthHertz.
    That's quite helpful and pretty slick, thanks for sharing! Not sure if you're interested in putting any more work into it, but one idea to extend it would be allow the positions to overlay the intervals, so that you can see how the position fits into the whole. You could change the shape and/or color of the position overlay to differentiate from the intervals.

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankLearns View Post
    Hi Fep,

    here is a recording of my pathetic attempts at these arpeggios. It is only an audio.



    I figured out how to to the video (thanks again!) but i made too many mistakes :-( So this audio is pieced together From five separate takes, one for each position. Admittedly some of these positions took a few trials before it was kind of ok - there still mistakes, inconsistencies, timing issues etc but I figured I should get over myself and finally start posting. If I'm perfectly honest, I haven't managed so far to get through all five positions consecutively without screwing up somewhere.

    I don't know about you guys, but I have a much easier time when i don't have to play straight eight notes because it leaves me with the little time I still need to organize my thinking of which one comes next. I guess at the end of the day it all got to be fully automatic but it hasn't happened yet.
    Great job Frank. Like you said, doing straight eighth notes from one arp to the next is much harder than pausing between arps. So I'd say you definately past that 1st level. This sounds really good.

    And, I like your tone and that major 6 chord at the end, brings to mind a fruity rum cocktail (and I don't even drink anymore).
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  10. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by onetruevibe View Post
    Thank for taking the time to build these worksheets - looks like a tremendous resource! May I ask what program you used to build the shapes?

    Thanks again! I'll be using these for sure.
    +1

    Quote Originally Posted by onetruevibe View Post
    So, I'm making progress on the major arps using Pattern 1, but I'm nowhere near grabbing them clean and "at speed." I'm thinking getting all patterns dialed-in will take me a lifetime.

    Also - while I continue working with these arps, I realize I don't always know what chord I'm actually playing...it was just another shape. This scared me - I'm afraid I won't be able to grab one of these arps in context and only in the sequence I've been practicing them.

    So I started saying the chord names aloud as a played each arp. This seems to be helping.

    Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
    Quote Originally Posted by FatJeff View Post
    This is exactly what I'm trying to get away from. Divesting myself from a shape-oriented approach to the fretboard, and thinking more in terms of note names, chord names, harmonic function, etc. is my holy grail. And I'm also working hard on not always playing the arps from the root note.
    +1

    In the back of my mind is the chord I'm playing and the chord I'm going to, both while doing Elliott's arpeggio exercises and when I'm playing music. I prefer to think of the chord "numbers' as opposed to the actual chord names.

    For instance, when doing an Elliot exercise I'm thinking in the back of my mind, "the next arpeggio is over the iii chord".

    I think this is a great tip: While playing an arpeggio think in the back of your mind what the next arpeggio is in terms of chord Roman Numeral numbers

    Quote Originally Posted by jster View Post
    Hey fep, I'm back in town and I got my book, so I'm going to be catching up to you guys soon. Are you planning on one chapter per week? What is the pace? Maybe you said somewhere else. If so, sorry to ask again.
    Yep, maybe about a chapter a week. We'll move foward next week. We are hanging back right now giving some the chance to get their book delivered.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by gersdal View Post
    I tend to play the minor arpeggios over the Autumn Leaves progression for variation. It feels a little more like making music...
    I gave it a try. I started with straight 1/8th notes.

    Then I just played around a bit but still sticky 99% to the arpeggios (I played a couple chromatic connectors). It took me a little bit of fumbling before I got rolling on the playing around bit.

    This is a fun way to practice the arpeggios.

    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by onetruevibe View Post
    Jeff - check out this website I built to help me better "see" the layout of an intervallic fretboard. For me to learn new things, I usually have to build a physical representation of my understanding (which is also why I asked gersdal how he made his patters worksheet). That's what this is - it may be helpful to others and it might not. YMMV. It's set up using the Major Mode names, because that was my original approach, but now that I'm staring to see things more a just a big pool notes/intervals, I may change it. Just click on the mode name and drag the intervals onto the fret board. This was inspired by conversations I was having with TruthHertz.
    That's really cool, although it took me a little while to figure out that all those positions and intervals were hyperlinked! At first I was like ... uhhh ... OK, those are the names of the notes on the fretboard... :-)

    I agree with Reggie...what would be really cool would be able to select a key or fret position, and have those notes overlay on the fretboard diagram. Also, melodic minor scales, whole-tone, diminished, blues and harmonic minor!

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    In the back of my mind is the chord I'm playing and the chord I'm going to, both while doing Elliott's arpeggio exercises and when I'm playing music. I prefer to think of the chord "numbers' as opposed to the actual chord names.

    For instance, when doing an Elliot exercise I'm thinking in the back of my mind, "the next arpeggio is over the iii chord".

    I think this is a great tip: While playing an arpeggio think in the back of your mind what the next arpeggio is in terms of chord Roman Numeral numbers
    Absolutely. That's easy to do when you're counting up and down from I to VII and back. But start moving through the progression by fourths or fifths, and things start to get squirrely fast. :-)

    I also had something of an epiphany about Autumn Leaves the other day. I was working the minor patterns through the CoF (cycle of fourths) and suddenly a lightbulb went off - Autumn Leaves progresses by fourths in a minor key. I've been told that before, but this time I really got it. Duh.

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by JazzReggie View Post
    That's quite helpful and pretty slick, thanks for sharing! Not sure if you're interested in putting any more work into it, but one idea to extend it would be allow the positions to overlay the intervals, so that you can see how the position fits into the whole. You could change the shape and/or color of the position overlay to differentiate from the intervals.
    Quote Originally Posted by FatJeff View Post
    That's really cool, although it took me a little while to figure out that all those positions and intervals were hyperlinked! At first I was like ... uhhh ... OK, those are the names of the notes on the fretboard... :-)

    I agree with Reggie...what would be really cool would be able to select a key or fret position, and have those notes overlay on the fretboard diagram. Also, melodic minor scales, whole-tone, diminished, blues and harmonic minor!
    I'm always open to new ideas and ways to improve - so thanks for the ideas!
    You've offered plenty to keep me busy for, oh, the next couple years.

    To keep this thread on track with chapters 2 & 3, I'll link back to the original thread on this - you can check there for updates.

    And now back to our regular programming...all Joe Elliott, all the time.
    Don't practice until you get it right. Practice until you can't get it wrong.

  15. #64

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    I will be following along, I have been working on this book for a few months, and just finished it.
    Going to go thru it again to solidify some things,,,,
    Great post,,,,thanks fep

  16. #65

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    My copy of the book has finally arrived! Not sure if I'll be able to keep up with the pace of the study group (existing private lessons, other activities, etc), but I'll definitely be digging into the book and following these threads.

  17. #66

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    For Sale: CHEAP...


    Long story short, I ended up with two copies of the text book for this thread -- the Joe Elliot _Introduction to Jazz Guitar Soloing_. I have a copy that's still in the unopened Amazon box, pristine and fresh off the press.

    Anybody need a new copy? Send me a PM and we'll work it out ( basically, just PayPal me $11 and its yours.)

    KJ

    Send me a PM for my email

  18. #67

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    My book arrived yesterday, too! I'll tell you what, though, this has already improved my playing. Before starting this book, my improvisation was primarily playing arpeggios starting on the root as the lowest note and running around on scale patterns. Noodling basically.

    By working the Pattern I Maj arpeggios into playing tunes I has already made things sound more interesting. Especially when playing the arpeggios using Pattern I and starting on the low note (or any note other than the root.) Sure, it' probably still classified as noodling, and the changes aren't as obvious, but it sounds more interesting - to me anyhow.

    I'm really excited about where this is taking me!
    Don't practice until you get it right. Practice until you can't get it wrong.

  19. #68

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    I've been working on chapter 2&3 major and minor arps. I believe I am doing them as the prescribed in the book. I noticed that most of the changes from one arp to the next fall on the off beat or and of the beat. When seems a little awkward. But I forge on.

    Anybody have any comments? Is that not the intention of the author?

  20. #69

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    I don't think the intention at this point is to make strong melodic statements, but to get the arpeggio shapes under your fingers. The music making comes later.

  21. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmsmarr View Post
    I've been working on chapter 2&3 major and minor arps. I believe I am doing them as the prescribed in the book. I noticed that most of the changes from one arp to the next fall on the off beat or and of the beat. When seems a little awkward. But I forge on.

    Anybody have any comments? Is that not the intention of the author?
    +1 to what Jeff said in the previous post

    If you want to forge on after that step then check out the videos I did and posted to this thread. I showed some other ways to practice the arps.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  22. #71

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    Thanks for all responses! I am definitely enjoying this practice! Actually I told my guitar teacher about the forum and the study group and he liked the idea (I don't think that it is potentially harmful for his business. Nothing substitutes for the look of a teacher who turns on the metronome in response to your latest attempts :-)) . Next time I'll bring him the book.

    In response to another comment - I thought our assignment is to play the arps for a given number of measures and not change between them on offbeat or odd times.

    I also fooled around with the Autumn Leaves changes and I agree that it is more fun because the changes are much more along the lines we meet all the time in playing standards. But I also think that we would probably jump too far ahead of ourselves if we would try to make strong melodic statements at this point in time ... I know we all do this to eventually be able to do this and to do it in proper time and without awkward notes. For this assignment I suppose we stick to the mechanical part of running these arps up and down. It'll get sufficiently complicated soon enough :-)

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankLearns View Post
    I also fooled around with the Autumn Leaves changes and I agree that it is more fun because the changes are much more along the lines we meet all the time in playing standards.
    Cool. Any idea for a major type tune? Hey Jude wouldn't be to far off, but kinda not jazz...

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    I gave it a try. I started with straight 1/8th notes.

    Then I just played around a bit but still sticky 99% to the arpeggios (I played a couple chromatic connectors). It took me a little bit of fumbling before I got rolling on the playing around bit.

    This is a fun way to practice the arpeggios.

    Thanks. Enjoyed listening to your take.

  25. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by gersdal View Post
    Cool. Any idea for a major type tune? Hey Jude wouldn't be to far off, but kinda not jazz...
    Pick a tune that modulates, changes modes, or uses non-diatonic chords, like All Of Me or All The Things You Are. I'm thinking a standard jazz blues would also be excellent fodder. Pick any key. :-)

  26. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatJeff View Post
    Pick a tune that modulates, changes modes, or uses non-diatonic chords, like All Of Me or All The Things You Are. I'm thinking a standard jazz blues would also be excellent fodder. Pick any key. :-)
    Sunny? <big edit here>Ooops! Sunny isn't in a major key. : (

    Sweet Georgia Brown, however, is.
    Last edited by Kojo27; 05-04-2012 at 06:14 PM.

  27. #76

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    Hi

    Gersdal :
    Thanks a lot. The similar minor arps had the same errors (copy and paste). I'll update when I've played carefully through them all.
    Did you updated the charts allready? they are very usefull.

    Here is my try on Arps Pattern 1 Major

    https://www.box.com/s/ce6e87007ad261ecf639

    Thx
    Miguel
    Last edited by MGranada; 05-05-2012 at 08:09 AM.

  28. #77

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    OK, I am catching up to you guys. I am enjoying this quite a bit. I am not sure whether I am going to put up any mp3s for a while. I tune in 4ths and so I have a somewhat different set of issues to address. In particular, in addition to the arpeggios within the scales, there are other (more musical and riffy) forms that fly out of the scale forms. So I have choices about how I want to tweak Elliott's exercises. But, it seems I should be able to work through Elliott's exercises with all my scale patterns systematically and pretty quickly.

    For the Chapters 2 and 3 exercises, I am going through them with pauses just as Elliott does on the CD. But looking forward to the connecting game, I have a question for you guys. Elliott has you run up/down the arpeggios and then connect them with the nearest note. A bit later on he tells the student to switch directions and mix it up a bit. But here is my question. Leaving Elliott and his pedagogy aside for the moment, and leaving aesthetics aside for the moment, how much jazz is there that is roughly like that? I.e., that is going up (down) one arpeggio and then connecting by means of the nearest note to the next one arpeggio at the next bar? Is there a bunch of bebop like that? I can appreciate using arpeggios. I can appreciate changing them as the chords change. I can appreciate swinging eighth notes. I can appreciate running a bit up or down in them. I can appreciate connecting them smoothly. But I am having trouble appreciating the importance of going straight up and then connecting to the mathematcially nearest note. Anybody have any thoughts on that? The reason I am asking has to do with the options I have for tweaking Elliott's exercises. Any videos of highly mathematical arpeggio work from the history of jazz would be appreciated!
    Last edited by jster; 05-05-2012 at 03:35 PM.
    Favorite Musician: Pythagoras

  29. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by jster View Post
    Elliott has you run up/down the arpeggios and then connect them with the nearest note. A bit later on he tells the student to switch directions and mix it up a bit. But here is my question. Leaving Elliott and his pedagogy aside for the moment, and leaving aesthetics aside for the moment, how much jazz is there that is roughly like that? I.e., that is going up (down) one arpeggio and then connecting by means of the nearest note to the next one arpeggio at the next bar? Is there a bunch of bebop like that? I can appreciate using arpeggios. I can appreciate changing them as the chords change. I can appreciate swinging eighth notes. I can appreciate running a bit up or down in them. I can appreciate connecting them smoothly. But I am having trouble appreciating the importance of going straight up and then connecting to the mathematcially nearest note. Anybody have any thoughts on that? The reason I am asking has to do with the options I have for tweaking Elliott's exercises. Any videos of highly mathematical arpeggio work from the history of jazz would be appreciated!
    I'd say I have not heard bebop players that run up and down arpeggios so mechanically as the Elliott exercises. They will play a few notes of an arpeggio, then some scale or chromatics, target a chord tone, add some silence, motifs etc.

    And I think some of us may find as we are learning these new "pathways" that we will sound too mechanical for a while.

    I also think that this is a good stepping stone to really get our hands/mind/ears around these arpeggios. It's also helping me think ahead and keep track of what chord is coming next.

    I'm planning on following the book really closely. Get comfortable doing these exercises Elliott's way first. After that, I think it's fine to get creative and try other things. Just like the variations we have come up with in this thread. But, I repeat, I'm going to get it down Elliott's way first.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  30. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    I'm planning on following the book really closely. Get comfortable doing these exercises Elliott's way first. After that, I think it's fine to get creative and try other things. Just like the variations we have come up with in this thread. But, I repeat, I'm going to get it down Elliott's way first.
    Yep, when it's a "methodical approach" to something as vast and as sprawling as how to play jazz, you've clearly wasted your money and time if your approach is to pick and choose elements of a concise, specific way of doing this thing. Especially when this "way" is allegedly proven to work.

    Whether we're satisfied with *how* it works... we'll see.

    So I'll try my best to follow Elliot's method. So far I've abandoned only his insistence on alternate picking, and his scale fingerings.

    kj

  31. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kojo27 View Post
    So I'll try my best to follow Elliot's method. So far I've abandoned only his insistence on alternate picking, and his scale fingerings.

    kj
    Ha ha, that's funny to me. That's exactly how I feel too.

    As you know I'm working on a new picking technique that includes economy picking when moving from a lower to higher adjacent string. It's easy to fall back into long-time-ingrained old picking habits. So I'm not about to abandon economy picking for these exercises.

    But I'm good with alternate picking and don't need to work on that. That suggestion by Elliott, while a good suggestion, is not really what this book is about.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  32. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    That suggestion by Elliott, while a good suggestion, is not really what this book is about.
    I agree completely, however his patterns do seem to be foundational to his approach. I'll be interested to learn as we go along how useful his book is for those who don't use his patterns and if the different fingerings used provide any additional efficiencies. Elliott's patterns seem pretty stinking efficient to me, but I'm a complete noob. I could be off track.

    Update on my practice - I've started with the Minor Patter II arpeggios. I have them dialed in pretty well, but still have to pause at each change for a couple beats to remember what comes next. I'm going to start using fep's suggestion of thinking always thinking about what's coming next.
    Don't practice until you get it right. Practice until you can't get it wrong.

  33. #82

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    In the interest of not spending 90 minutes a day just on this material, I'm going to pare down my practice to just using Elliot's shape 1 and shape 4. (Shape 3 and Shape 7 in Bruno parlance.) Those are shapes that don't require any shifting and they cover the fretboard fairly well, so it should be a good compromise for me.

  34. #83

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    I had a moment today and took a quick take on the Autumn leaves arpeggio study.



    It is five choruses, one for each position. It is fun to do!
    Have a nice day everybody!

  35. #84

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    PS: fep - hope we'll have a sundowner together some day :-)

    I actually was in San Diego in march for a conference and *loved* it there. I was at the Croce bar with my wife and a real nice band was playing and i was chatting a bit with the guitar player - a very nice guy (Steve Wilcox is his name if I remember correctly. He had a nice old Gibson Barney Kessel). Won't get there too often though as i am based in germany.

  36. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankLearns View Post
    I had a moment today and took a quick take on the Autumn leaves arpeggio study.



    It is five choruses, one for each position. It is fun to do!
    Have a nice day everybody!
    Great clip! I aspire to shift arps that fluidly.

  37. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankLearns View Post
    I had a moment today and took a quick take on the Autumn leaves arpeggio study.



    It is five choruses, one for each position. It is fun to do!
    Have a nice day everybody!
    Cool Frank,

    You definitely have this down beyond what the chapters ask for. And that is a good exercise, doing all the patterns in one exercise.

    I'd like to point out to everyone, Frank played all the arpeggios in every minor pattern in under 2 minutes. Once you have learned these patterns it really doesn't take much time to do maintenance practice. 5 minutes a day should be enough.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  38. #87

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    many thanks for the friendly comments!

    I admit that the sound clip was pieced together from two takes. I am getting more fluent but still make mistakes. I agree that just a few minutes every day during warmup helps a lot. I noticed that it would be difficult for me to change direction midway through the arpeggio and do the next one properly. I guess that is the point of the ercersizes in the next chapters

    I took a look this morning into what is following next in the book. I guess we would again treat two chapters at the same time?! This more or less looks like a very central part of the book and one probably should, as Elliot proposes, spend significant time on the connecting game for the standard progressions. Looks like a very useful practice assignment!

  39. #88

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    Hey guys, I can't find the Autumn Leaves exercise in the book.

    My vision is getting better (love those morning shots in the stomach!), but print as small (looks small to me) as that in the Elliot book is at least a month away, so I'm making use of my accidentally-purchased 2nd copy, taking off the spine and scanning the pages for screen reading.

    Anyway, a page # will help big time.

    kj

  40. #89

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kojo27 View Post
    Hey guys, I can't find the Autumn Leaves exercise in the book.
    no oversight on your end - that exercise is not part of the book (and hence also not part of anybody's assignment at this time). I think it came up when someone here, if I remember correctly it was Jeff, mentioned that he found it too mechanical to just do the arpeggios one after the other. He suggested that practicing with the AutumnLeaves chord progression instead is more fun and more musical. Several others liked that idea and that is how it came up.

    To some extent we are jumping ahead of ourselves because the Autumn leaves chord progression already contains the 2-5-1 (Major) and 6-2-5-1 (Minor) "standard situations" that Elliot is talking about in the next chapter. Playing these arpeggios in the way we practiced them is already part of the "connecting game".

  41. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankLearns View Post
    PS: fep - hope we'll have a sundowner together some day :-)

    I actually was in San Diego in march for a conference and *loved* it there. I was at the Croce bar with my wife and a real nice band was playing and i was chatting a bit with the guitar player - a very nice guy (Steve Wilcox is his name if I remember correctly. He had a nice old Gibson Barney Kessel). Won't get there too often though as i am based in germany.
    Cool Frank, A sundowner sounds good. Let me know when you're coming to town.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  42. #91

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    FrankLearns is right, the "Autumn Leaves" exercise is not in the book. I "invented" it by taking the minor shapes through the cycle of fourths, rather than diatonically ascending and descending. I did this because I was using my ear to hear my way through the changes, rather than knowing the shapes and using that knowledge to play the arps. When I did that, I discovered that AL is simply a diatonic journey though the harmonized natural minor scale.

    I've also horsed around with other progressions: ascending fifths, descending whole steps, etc. These take the ear out of the equation and force me to recognize shapes and scale degrees, rather than relying on my hearing a familiar progression.

  43. #92

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    As part of the learning process, I created an interactive model for the arps in chapters 3-4. It's still very much a work-in-progress, but I figured I would post them up in case others might find them useful.

    Brian
    Last edited by onetruevibe; 05-08-2012 at 02:19 PM.
    Don't practice until you get it right. Practice until you can't get it wrong.

  44. #93

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    Quote Originally Posted by onetruevibe View Post
    As part of the learning process, I created an interactive model for the arps in chapters 3-4. It's still very much a work-in-progress, but I figured I would post them up in case others might find them useful.

    Brian
    Check the IV chord in major and the VI chord in minor. Looks like there is an extra note (G).

  45. #94

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    Awesome! Thanks for catching that. I'll remove it straight away.
    Don't practice until you get it right. Practice until you can't get it wrong.

  46. #95

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    Quote Originally Posted by onetruevibe View Post
    As part of the learning process, I created an interactive model for the arps in chapters 3-4. It's still very much a work-in-progress, but I figured I would post them up in case others might find them useful.

    Brian
    Super, Brian! Good job. I'll use this a LOT. I use Leavitt's fingerings, and while they work well, the book's examples are all CAGED-derived. So I'm trying to become comfortable with those fingerings, too. (God, how many scale fingerings can one guy know? I know a 2-octave bebop scale fingering that's awesome, but I don't yet know how to share it... time, time.)


    Anyway, it's a great tool Brian - thanks a million.

    kj

  47. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by FrankLearns View Post
    no oversight on your end - that exercise is not part of the book (and hence also not part of anybody's assignment at this time). I think it came up when someone here, if I remember correctly it was Jeff, mentioned that he found it too mechanical to just do the arpeggios one after the other. He suggested that practicing with the AutumnLeaves chord progression instead is more fun and more musical. Several others liked that idea and that is how it came up.

    To some extent we are jumping ahead of ourselves because the Autumn leaves chord progression already contains the 2-5-1 (Major) and 6-2-5-1 (Minor) "standard situations" that Elliot is talking about in the next chapter. Playing these arpeggios in the way we practiced them is already part of the "connecting game".
    Ah - I see. "Autumn Leaves" is dear to me. Not so crazy about Clapton's version, but even it is tolerable. Eva Cassidy's version? WHOA!!!!!! Those are vocals (though Clapton solos GREAT, in his style - and I mean GREAT.)

    Anyway, good job, FrankL. I can't do them all in a seamless row without screwing up, but I'm working on it. Very impressive.

    Quote Originally Posted by FatJeff View Post
    FrankLearns is right, the "Autumn Leaves" exercise is not in the book. I "invented" it by taking the minor shapes through the cycle of fourths, rather than diatonically ascending and descending. I did this because I was using my ear to hear my way through the changes, rather than knowing the shapes and using that knowledge to play the arps. When I did that, I discovered that AL is simply a diatonic journey though the harmonized natural minor scale.
    Yeah, it is a "...journey through the harmonized natural minor scale." Cool. And a very good exercise for the Elliot book. Good job, Jeff.

  48. #97

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    Quote Originally Posted by onetruevibe View Post
    As part of the learning process, I created an interactive model for the arps in chapters 3-4. It's still very much a work-in-progress, but I figured I would post them up in case others might find them useful.

    Brian
    Very nice Brian, thanks a lot! That must have been quite a bit of work.

  49. #98

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    OK since fep has been hounding us to upload videos of us playing, here's a half-assed attempt. Major arps, Elliot's Patterns I and IV (Shapes 3 and 7 according to Bruno).


  50. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by FatJeff View Post
    OK since fep has been hounding us to upload videos of us playing, here's a half-assed attempt. Major arps, Elliot's Patterns I and IV (Shapes 3 and 7 according to Bruno).

    Great job, Jeff! Smooth and even; I'd say you have them down pretty well. And it's tough work... so congrats.

    Also, I dig your right hand. I've recently switched to "floating," and to picking mostly from the elbow (everybody groan together) as Django did (now everybody stop groaning.)

    Are you holding your pick with two fingers?

    kj

  51. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kojo27 View Post
    Super, Brian! Good job. I'll use this a LOT. I use Leavitt's fingerings, and while they work well, the book's examples are all CAGED-derived. So I'm trying to become comfortable with those fingerings, too. (God, how many scale fingerings can one guy know? I know a 2-octave bebop scale fingering that's awesome, but I don't yet know how to share it... time, time.)


    Anyway, it's a great tool Brian - thanks a million.

    kj
    Thanks Kojo - I appreciate the feedback! I hear you about the number of patterns/shapes/fingerings - totally overwhelming for me. I have a penchant for new things, so often I'll move on to new ideas and concepts too quickly - without taking the time to really apply deeply what I've learned. So, after this book I think I'll take a break from learning about soloing and really dedicate myself to this approach. Considering where I am in this journey-o-jazz, there is plenty here to get by on for a couple years, I think. We'll see if I have the discipline.

    Quote Originally Posted by FrankLearns View Post
    Very nice Brian, thanks a lot! That must have been quite a bit of work.
    Thanks Frank. It is a lot of work, but building things really helps me internalize what I'm learning about. So, it's all good. Besides, it was either build that or cut the grass...
    Don't practice until you get it right. Practice until you can't get it wrong.