The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clouds

    1-I picked one of the ten pairings and decided to work with it with a different mode every day. For instance, the first day I would choose to work with the 4th pairing (sus4 +sus4) and with the lydian mode; I would record a loop with the 12 roots (or use a play-along) and work on being able to play all those little cadencies starting from each inversion in all keys, both with close and spread voicings. Then the following day I would work with a different mode until I could use that paring to describe (at least) Lydian, Ionian, Mixolydian, Altered and Lydian b7. I think I did this kind of workout for 3-4 pairings I really liked (probably # 4-5-7-8 in the book, I can't remember exactly);
    I like that approach (#1). That gives me hope so I'll start on that tomorrow.



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  3. #77

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    Quote: Hi guys,

    I've been lucky to study privately with Mick at Berklee for 2 years. He showed me this approach way before the book came out. He asked me to write one chorus of Stella for each of the 10 pairings (like it's in the book). At the end he asked my to write a final chorus including all 10 pairings. He called this final etude "Stella: the movie". Writing the movie was extremely difficult, because you pretty much have to try out every possibility for every bar in order to choose the best solution; also, you have to voice-lead your way through the different chord families and the entire chord progression.

    I wrote my "Stella the movie" back in January 2009 and Mick really liked it.

    When the book came out, it inspired me to go back to that etude and learn to play it in time. I decided to record it and posted it on Youtube. Here it is:!

    You can find the link to the transcription in the video info. Hope you like it and find it somehow useful.


    Claudio End Quote

    Good stuff Claudio, I am also working with some of Micks' material. Thanks for sharing.


  4. #78

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    Do you guys think that maybe there's some sense in becoming very fluent with more conventional triad pairs and hexatonics before diving into this material? That seems logical to me.

  5. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by JakeAcci
    Do you guys think that maybe there's some sense in becoming very fluent with more conventional triad pairs and hexatonics before diving into this material? That seems logical to me.
    Conventional triads? Sure, I guess.

    Hexatonics before this? No, not necessary.

  6. #80

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    In my post I intended the term "triad pair" and "hexatonic" to mean more or less the same thing. In a sense, all the material in the book is dealing with hexatonic scales, just exploring all possible three-and-three groupings rather than just pairs of triads.

    There are more conventional (and at this point somewhat standard) uses of triad pairs in modern jazz, I wonder if Tim and Mick think the player ought to be pretty familiar with that material before diving into this book.

  7. #81

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    Mick Goodrick covered triads and 7ths voiced at all diatonic interval cycles in volume I of his 3 book Goodchord series.

  8. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by bako
    Mick Goodrick covered triads and 7ths voiced at all diatonic interval cycles in volume I of his 3 book Goodchord series.
    Isn't that series now unavailable due to licensing issues? What a pity. I'd love to own it for a reasonable amount of $$$.

  9. #83

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    I understand the concept of the book, compressing a 7 note scale into various pairings of 6 notes and the root of the scale in the bass, but in the real world, in a playing situation, the bass player will do a lot more than just play the root of the chord scale ( you would hope so) So if the bass plays a tritone sub for example and you dont expect it then you will probably end up either not defining the harmony properly or doubling one of the notes. Do you think this invalidates the concept or weakens it somehow? Will it still define the tonal centre strongly if you dont have all seven notes present? if the bass note is not what you expect it to be? Would it be valid of thinking of the triad pairs as defining a tonal centre instead of the chord of the moment eg for a two bar ii-V-I could i play dmim and emin triads to define a tonal area of C maj instead of just the chord of the moment?

    I guess im trying to convince myself on making the commitment. I understand that you will make wonderful discoveries down the road. In the short term, your not going to be making your self more employable ( imagine busting these out at your next wedding gig, Ha Ha)

    An observation i had was this book makes a case for the Lydian mode as the first scale of choice for major chords, cuz i cant see the point of using a triad pair based on the Ionian mode and emphasing the 4th/11th. In a major scale its more easily handled as a passing note. Im trying to get my head around Dmin and Emin triads defining the sound of a C maj chord. My traditional upbringing i guess.

    Sorry for my ramblings, just a few ideas going through my head as i try to figure out how im going to tackle this stuff
    Last edited by Jazzism; 03-18-2013 at 07:46 AM.

  10. #84

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    Good question. If you have the book, though, listen to the CD with the examples. John Lockwood is NOT just playing roots, so you hear a "real world" sound, and I think it works well.

  11. #85

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    Hey there Jazzism, as marcwhy suggests, do listen to the CD and do read the section at the end of the book.
    A couple or thoughts I'll share in passing: This approach is very likely a different approach than you're used to using on changes, ie. it's not chord tone/approach tone oriented. It provides melodic ideas for very effectively "painting" chord scales. Don't think of it as "I've got to play these notes because it's the #5 and that's not an avoid note..." or anything like that. You might think of it as the bass player giving the framework for the change (that's their job) and you're providing the full colour spectrum in an elegant way. The groupings help you build a toolbox you might want to work with.

    As far as the issue of whether to commit, well, if you're curious, take one grouping and work with it. It's not going to subtract from your knowledge base and I assume you're not close to the end of your life with a terminal disease or on death row. Certainly immersion in the exercises will reveal more about the material's potential than anyone can explain.
    Mick's books have always been designed for the player that possesses the initiative to take the lumber and tools, design and then build something with it.
    You might find that this material will be used as a spice to create a colour wash for 6 bars during the second chorus, the rest of the time you're playing like Paul Desmond. Very effective application. You might find that as you play in a more traditional arpeggiated way you establish a rhythmic motiv and you want to extend that rhythmic approach into new melodic material. Well the triads approach in the book gives you 6 notes in the measure to do that in. There's a huge number of options to explore but you should have an open mind, an imagination, the ability to use your ears AND your fingers and yes, commitment.
    If nothing else, it's a good attitude expansion exercise. But if you're worried whether it will give you a ready made set of licks that you can just fall into that will automatically fit into your own "colour scheme", or an out of the box plug in that will be guaranteed to make your own personal style better, I'd say it might be better to wait until you're really wanting and needing a new way of seeing and hearing.
    There is a learning curve and assembly required. But it's a gateway into sounds you may not have come across on your own.

  12. #86

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    Thx guys,
    Wise words.
    How do you guys go about assimilating the material? Eg Mick goodrick gives a choice for learning chord scale recognition as being either parallel or derivative thinking, as in Cmajor= C lydian (parallel) or G Major (derivative)

    Any thoughts on a method for getting this stuff down? after you have selected some pairings that you like the sound of

  13. #87

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    Need to check out this book, Mick Goodrick's Advancing Guitarist is excellent

  14. #88

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    ah crap, thanks david. Just reading this now at 8:45...hope the AC is blasting there. Rats, would have been cool to see them all, I was thinking of going to see Bergonzi anyway. Let me know who is playing bass and drums. Will Slater?

    Any chance they are doing it again next monday?

  15. #89
    hi sam
    i was looking for the mick goodrick articles
    from guitar player magazine,
    for some reason i couldnt find them just a small paragraph
    about the advancing guitarist
    do you have any idea how can i get them.
    since you have mentioned you have them

  16. #90

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    Ok, I've had this book a few months and started learning the first few examples back then but got busy with other stuff.

    I've just spend the last 2 hours reading the threads, listening to the audio examples and watching Tim on YT to see if I should get into this book deeply at this moment.

    The opening track sounds a lot like Holdsworth at the start I think, maybe those Sus4/7th no 5 triads? It's lovely anyway.

    It's a well organised book with all variety of triads played in closed and open examples. As David says that makes it easy to pick out which sound you like.

    This is deep jazz and maybe to advanced for my busking publics ear but it's the kind of stuff that I really like (as can be seen on my YT channel having written pieces in Double Harmonic Major, Lydian Diminished, Harmonic Minor, Ionian #5 etc).

    I'll do a few minutes each day and will see where it leaves me. I've listened to Mick a good bit in the past especially the Live at the Jazz Standard album but I see that Tim has a few very tasty pieces on YT. I think privately that's a path that I'd like to explore more.


  17. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liarspoker

    This is deep jazz and maybe to advanced for my busking publics ear but it's the kind of stuff that I really like (as can be seen on my YT channel having written pieces in Double Harmonic Major, Lydian Diminished, Harmonic Minor, Ionian #5 etc).
    Wow it's been a LONG time since this thread was active. A lot has gone on. When I was last on this thread I was using the TruthHertz nom de plum but now I thought I'd add some commentary since returning to the forum.
    Almost a year ago to the day, Berklee closed down for spring break never to reopen for several semesters. It was also the last time Mick set foot on that campus as he ended his teaching career and connections with Berklee at that point.
    Somewhere during that time I visited Mick and I asked him to look back on his career, his music and his musical world as he saw it. I asked him how he saw the guitar change during his time there and how he sees the theoretical and practical guitar in relation to what is now the Berklee "method". The answer surprised me.
    It speaks to this book directly.

    When he wrote the Almanacs, he broke open the very concept of what could be done on the guitar. Things that were thought to be impossible were laid out in a way that invited every guitarist to revolutionize harmony, voice leading, guitar voicings and the navigation of harmony on the fingerboard in ways that connected the improvising guitarist with a thread that tied back to Bach.
    Volume three was especially revolutionary.

    Mick told me that when he wrote volume three, he opened up the intervallic DNA of western harmony beyond tertiary harmony, harmony built on thirds. He believed the next chapter in sonic harmony was the recognition and facility with 3 and 4 part harmony in NON tertiary harmony. There were sonic possibilities that were just skipped over. They didn't have names in the conventional way, but they could be codified, voice led, applied to conventional harmonic structures but the sounds would be profoundly different.
    So instead of harmony built in 3rds, how about in 4ths. Cool. Some players have already begun to explore that a lot, McCoy Tyner, Ed Bikert, Holdsworth, and others.
    And you can build harmony in other ways too, with structures that included clusters, or 3 adjacent scale steps and added note. Don't treat these as a triad built with a passing note (the conventional way of seeing it) but as a structure in and of itself, to be voice led and systemized to retain this unique character.
    There are spread clusters, there are rootless chords, even more unique intervallic shapes that manifest themselves as sounds never heard before.

    So far this harmony as complete and understandable as it is has been untapped. Berklee would not incorporate this into their harmony curriculum, and he was left to share and teach this only with students who studied with him individually. The only one I know of who uses Mick's volume 3 materially freely and as an integrated concept is Ben Monder. He's just written a composition based on volume 3 material.
    Other than that, he and Tim Miller put the Creative Chordal Harmony book together. It's the "Almanacs volume 3 in practical use or Applied Harmony beyond the way everyone else sees it."

    So it really helps if you don't see these pages as stretching triadic harmony, but rather the system wherein you use non triadic harmony as a complete alternative to Western Harmony since polyphony. Appreciate the difference in approach and keep your ear open to what this really means.
    Then live with and immerse yourself in a small niche until the sounds become second nature. That's where the "stella" etudes help. THen you'll find some sounds begin to creep into your playing, and you'll start playing differently.

    Honestly, it's not hard, because the system has been worked out by Mick, but it will be time consuming. No way it's beyond you. It's a new tree, unimagined by musicians up to this point, and the longer you water that tree, the taller it will grow, the more solid it will feel and the closer you come to being able to hold and eat a completely new fruit.

    Maybe this can give you some insight into the scope of the book. By the way, there were almost 40 more pages to that book but Berklee Press puts a cap on how many pages can be in their books. Maybe there's a future in that material if there's any interest in the Creative Harmony material.
    It's pretty cool stuff.


  18. #92

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    Great to 'see' you again. It's been a while since we exchanged messages.

    I've been spending a little time with the book and I find it great. Some if those sounds really resonate with me as when I hear them I get this feeling in my gut and the sound is so beautiful. I'll definitely keep going with it though probably not daily due to having to practice my repertoire which takes time.

    I'll definitely write some stuff which will be influenced by the book too.

    Also thanks for bringing Ben Monder to my attention. Lovely fingerstyle solo guitar. I've been transcribing some of his stuff. Very tasty.

    I'd love to hear some pieces that you've written. Would you mind sharing them (even privately).

    Thank you,


  19. #93

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    I found that good old fashioned pressure helped me use quartal harmony. In other words, a chord melody/solo guitar class. I really didn’t know diddly squat about guitar arranging but I’m a quick learner.

    When there was a melody line in which a tertial structure either didn’t sound too hot or was tough to grab, I simply turned into fourths man. As long as the chord was a passing chord in particular, it was perfect.

    So it’s as you say, Jimmy. We can just go for it.

  20. #94

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    We'll I took a break from this book and took a deep dive into the almanacs towards the end of last summer.

    I looked into this book again today and wrote out the E harmonic minor scale ( E drone ) and am applying it.

    Such sublime beautiful music. I think I'll write all night

    Is anyone else still working with this book?
    Last edited by Liarspoker; 02-04-2023 at 06:30 PM.