The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4thstuning
    Does anyone have an update on their experiences with this book yet?

    I received it two days ago and will share my experiences so far. It's painfully obvious this material has a huge learning curve and really taxes the memory. It will require a LOT of work to incorporate this my playing. I'm on page 2 and haven't yet mastered the triad/no3,no5 stuff yet. I refuse to move further until I can get each line of pg 2 incorporated - should take about a year at my current rate. Page 3 is far over the horizon.

    Moving forward into all the modes and scales (20 triad pairs x 7 modes x 5 scales = 700 triad pairs) will be daunting unless some great revelation occurs. ...well that's a bit of an exaggeration as I mainly use the major and melodic minor scales so my more modest ambition will reduce the total to only 280 pairs of hell.

    It's very tempting to give up...and I would but the CD sounds are too enticing. What torture!

    Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong. Shout out if anyone can guide me to the light.
    Yes, that would be the "overwhelmed after having the book for two days" stage; there are several other stages, including bargaining ("someone please explain this to me!"), denial ("I know all I need to know about music, so I don't need this!"), anger ("damn Mick and his tricks!"), and of course, acceptance ("hmm, maybe I'll just try playing one page of the etudes").

    Work through these stages, and hopefully you'll play a few new chords along the way.

    Marc

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Like the advancing guitarist, it's not a book you'll "finish." Just take whatever you can from it!

    For me personally I have other goals with my playing for the moment so I don't feel bad letting it sit on the shelf for a while.

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4thstuning
    I'm on page 2 and haven't yet mastered the triad/no3,no5 stuff yet.
    I wouldn't look at it as a front to back linear exercise. I'd listen to the CD and find one that says "THERE! I want THAT in my playing" and I'd find out where in the book it is.
    I'd listen to the CD, look through the book to get an overview, read the blurb at the back, try to see how this fits into my world view of the instrument and then pick one place to "stake out my base camp."

    You don't say where you are in the journey up the mountain.
    Can you play Stella by memory?
    Are you familiar with the tune by functional chords and not as a line of chords?
    How do you normally approach finding chords? Can you play Stella with chords voiced in different places around the fingerboard?

    These questions are not particularly necessary ones, but ones that can mark a point on the map where you'd be asking questions, questions that the book points the answers to. They also point to how urgent it is to embrace a new approach to get new sounds.
    If it's important for you to be able to find grabs easily and chain them together by memory to get through a tune, then this material will be much steeper. If you're kicking yourself each time you play the same approach to a bVII7 turnaround and wish somebody would suggest a melodic way to create movement, then you're going to have some real fun.

    I think everyone can get something, but I think the juicy zone is going to be when your foundational harmony is strong but frustrating. When you know how the building blocks work but you find them cumbersome and getting in your way, then this approach is a way to take them apart into smaller molecular pieces and build something more interesting.

    That's how I see it. Anyone else's take? Any one else taking an approach that is getting some reaction (good, bad or Arrrrgh!)?
    It's getting to a point when some sprouts should be appearing.
    Hey, spring!
    David

  5. #54

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    @TruthHertz

    I understand your idea of taking pieces from the book, and I've done things that way before. Nowadays however I really prefer to absorb the concepts, not just some particulars so it can be made "mine".

    That bravely said, with this material, I may just have to lower my ambitions, abandon my principles, and settle on one pair per scale mode and move on chastened but alive. This would reduce it to 2 pair forms (closed and open) per 7 scale modes times the number of scales I use the most (2 but maybe 3) for a grand total of 28 (maybe 42) sets of pairs ...Of course this has to be done in all 12 keys up, down, and across the fretboard

    Here's one approach that seems to help me absorb this material a little bit. Treat a triad pair like a scale and add a root triad to complete the scale. Start on 1 with a root triad and move to 2nd, 3rd, ...all the way to 7 using a set of triad pairs. For some reason adding the root triad makes the information stick better.

    To answer your question about where I am in my "journey up the mountain", I'm still in the foothills. FWIW, below is one example of a solo improvisation on Stella and some other tunes so you can make your own assessment:



    I'd sure like to hear how others are coping.

  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stephani52
    I'm on a waiting list for it at the Berklee book store. Interested to see its content, but I've never been much of a book guy.

    Some people are certainly excited about it!
    .
    Plenty of them in the store-always have been.

  7. #56

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    My copy should be getting here today-pretty pscyched! I still have to get those GP articles from Mick to you guys-lots of great stuff there as well. I love when you get those concept-expanding influences every once in awhile!

  8. #57

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    Hey guys, I talked about uploading those guitar player magazine articles from Mick... here they are:
    Mick Goodrick Guitar Player Magazine Article
    enjoy!

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by bako
    Two ways I am practicing the raw material involved in the book (page 2 and 3)

    Derivative-Each 2 chord sequence moving through chord scales (4 scales, all keys)

    C Major
    I---BEF-ADG
    II--CFG-BEA
    III--DGA-CFB
    IV--EAB-DGC
    V---FBC-EAD
    VI--GCD-FBE
    VII--ADE-GCF

    ...........etc
    Maybe this was already mentioned, but in this example the idea is to take two sus chords or stacks of 4ths with no common notes and use that?

    Just an observation that might make it easier to apply. Sorry if it's already been mentioned.

    Jens

  10. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by samrsmiley
    Hey guys, I talked about uploading those guitar player magazine articles from Mick... here they are:
    Mick Goodrick Guitar Player Magazine Article
    enjoy!
    Those are very cool, thanks for posting.

  11. #60

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    Thanks for the Goodrick articles!

  12. #61

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    Yea sure thing guys-they are a big inspiration, as is all of Mick's material!

  13. #62

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    hi everybody,
    I just got the book yesterday, and had only the time to peek the first pages, but I'd like to share some thoughts anyway...

    I notice quite a "mathematic" approach to harmonic material, like in the previous "Almanacs". Something like "let's take these elements and let's see how many combinations we can obtain." Some sound good, some okay, some are bad... but the choice is completely up to the reader.

    Almost the same here, with the three-note-group couples. Let's see how many combinations we have, how they sound, and then decide whether use them or not.

    The main advantage I see in this kind of approach is that harmony is there, because everything comes from scale tones, but not tighly bind to the "chord-scale-arpeggio rails", so that in the end you find yourself using unusual colors. And having the examples CD helps a lot to figure out what these colors are... indeed.
    One trap i see in this approach is that everything is more "blurred", and it's easy to play tunes that sound the same...

    Seems to me that much of the new "modern" guitarsim relies on this strategy to "break the rules" and sound different... Wayne Kranz method is another example of "explore all the combinations..." approach.
    That's very interesting, indeed, but I think that if someone wants to really dig this stuff, sooner or later he will have to abandon the usual harmony paths for a while, and this new style has to become his main focus...
    I think it will be difficult to keep the foot in both camps.. sooner or later a choiche have to be made wether to go "modern" or "traditional".
    Both ways have lots of material to study and take more than a lifetime... not to speak about phrasing and rhythm! :-)

    I wonder what more experienced player (more than me, at least) think about it...

  14. #63

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    Hi guys, I got the book a few days ago, slowly working through page 2. How I'm approaching it is in a dabbling but front - to - back manner.... As in I personally feel that I need to get the 10 pairings down in major, MM, HMin, HMaj before I move on. Especially as page 5 references stuff that just isn't written out in the book. The throwaway line ' Write out similar charts for yourself for all modes of major, MM, HMin, Hmaj' on page one has turned into a beast of an exercise. I'm looking at 80 pages of sib files in standard notation once I've finished. Would be happy to share, if theres the interest. Could easily add tab to it if people wanted. I know it might be seen as cheating, but I'm not sure cheating is always bad???
    Best, Mark

  15. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by iiVI
    Hi guys, I got the book a few days ago, slowly working through page 2. How I'm approaching it is in a dabbling but front - to - back manner.... As in I personally feel that I need to get the 10 pairings down in major, MM, HMin, HMaj before I move on. Especially as page 5 references stuff that just isn't written out in the book. The throwaway line ' Write out similar charts for yourself for all modes of major, MM, HMin, Hmaj' on page one has turned into a beast of an exercise. I'm looking at 80 pages of sib files in standard notation once I've finished. Would be happy to share, if theres the interest. Could easily add tab to it if people wanted. I know it might be seen as cheating, but I'm not sure cheating is always bad???
    Best, Mark
    Mark, that sounds very good. I'd be very interested in cheating ;-)

  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by iiVI
    I'm looking at 80 pages of sib files in standard notation once I've finished. Would be happy to share, if theres the interest. Could easily add tab to it if people wanted. I know it might be seen as cheating, but I'm not sure cheating is always bad???
    Best, Mark
    Interesting for sure!
    Useful maybe a bit less...
    To me the real deal in this kind of things is to actually do the work, spending time playing and internalizing...
    And writing stuff is a smart way to avoid rushing through the already written pages...
    But anyway, I cheated so many times (in music!) that one more won't hurt.. :-)

  17. #66

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    I like this book but sadly I don't have time currently to get absorbed into it. Count me in..!

  18. #67

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    Hi guys,

    I've been lucky to study privately with Mick at Berklee for 2 years. He showed me this approach way before the book came out. He asked me to write one chorus of Stella for each of the 10 pairings (like it's in the book). At the end he asked my to write a final chorus including all 10 pairings. He called this final etude "Stella: the movie". Writing the movie was extremely difficult, because you pretty much have to try out every possibility for every bar in order to choose the best solution; also, you have to voice-lead your way through the different chord families and the entire chord progression.

    I wrote my "Stella the movie" back in January 2009 and Mick really liked it.

    When the book came out, it inspired me to go back to that etude and learn to play it in time. I decided to record it and posted it on Youtube. Here it is:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=U...ayer_embedded#!

    You can find the link to the transcription in the video info. Hope you like it and find it somehow useful.

    Best,

    Claudio

  19. #68

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    Claudio, that sounds great!

    I have to be honest, while the rewards of the approach are undeniable, I had to put that book on hold because it seems too difficult to integrate into my improvisation - there's an infinite number of permutations to learn it seems....so I moved on to another of my glaring weaknesses.

    Are you able to do this smoothly yet? ...or is it an exercise?

    I hope you can give this member of the unwashed masses some hope.

    Thanks.

  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4thstuning
    Claudio, that sounds great!

    I have to be honest, while the rewards of the approach are undeniable, I had to put that book on hold because it seems too difficult to integrate into my improvisation - there's an infinite number of permutations to learn it seems....so I moved on to another of my glaring weaknesses.

    Are you able to do this smoothly yet? ...or is it an exercise?

    I hope you can give this member of the unwashed masses some hope.

    Thanks.
    +1!

  21. #70

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    Thanks, Claudio - much appreciated

  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clouds
    Hi guys,

    I've been lucky to study privately with Mick at Berklee for 2 years. He showed me this approach way before the book came out. He asked me to write one chorus of Stella for each of the 10 pairings (like it's in the book). At the end he asked my to write a final chorus including all 10 pairings. He called this final etude "Stella: the movie". Writing the movie was extremely difficult, because you pretty much have to try out every possibility for every bar in order to choose the best solution; also, you have to voice-lead your way through the different chord families and the entire chord progression.

    I wrote my "Stella the movie" back in January 2009 and Mick really liked it.

    When the book came out, it inspired me to go back to that etude and learn to play it in time. I decided to record it and posted it on Youtube. Here it is:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=U...ayer_embedded#!

    You can find the link to the transcription in the video info. Hope you like it and find it somehow useful.

    Best,

    Claudio
    Claudio,
    That was most impressive. Bravo! I could hear the melody in my head as you were playing as well as the references to the original harmony. This is definitely pushing me toward buying the book.

    I would like to hear from you or anyone else who is working with this book regarding how you've progressed at getting these sounds into your ears so that they can be employed intuitively on the bandstand.

    I watched several YouTube videos of Tim Miller playing. His facility with this type of harmony and his soloing are astounding.

  23. #72

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    Monk,

    I tried and stopped.

    The concept is too difficult for me to improvise with - there are simply too many permutations. For each chord and scale there are ten pairs of possible triads and their inversions. For example with just the major scale: 7 chords x 10 triads x 2 pairs x 3 inversions = 420. Multiply by the number of possible scales and it gets daunting indeed.

    How Tim Miller does it is beyond me.

    I hope Claudio replies.

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clouds
    Hi guys,

    I've been lucky to study privately with Mick at Berklee for 2 years. He showed me this approach way before the book came out. He asked me to write one chorus of Stella for each of the 10 pairings (like it's in the book). At the end he asked my to write a final chorus including all 10 pairings. He called this final etude "Stella: the movie". Writing the movie was extremely difficult, because you pretty much have to try out every possibility for every bar in order to choose the best solution; also, you have to voice-lead your way through the different chord families and the entire chord progression.

    I wrote my "Stella the movie" back in January 2009 and Mick really liked it.

    When the book came out, it inspired me to go back to that etude and learn to play it in time. I decided to record it and posted it on Youtube. Here it is:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=U...ayer_embedded#!

    You can find the link to the transcription in the video info. Hope you like it and find it somehow useful.

    Best,

    Claudio
    Very cool, thank you for posting and sharing.

  25. #74

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    Hi guys,

    thanks a lot for taking the time to watch the video and for your questions. I'll try to answer as soon as I can, sorry if it takes a while. I've been working with this kind of harmonic approach for a a few years now and it was definitely beneficial, although I don't think I've even scratched the surface of what one could do with it. Here's what I did to try to incorporate some of those sounds into my playing:

    1-I picked one of the ten pairings and decided to work with it with a different mode every day. For instance, the first day I would choose to work with the 4th pairing (sus4 +sus4) and with the lydian mode; I would record a loop with the 12 roots (or use a play-along) and work on being able to play all those little cadencies starting from each inversion in all keys, both with close and spread voicings. Then the following day I would work with a different mode until I could use that paring to describe (at least) Lydian, Ionian, Mixolydian, Altered and Lydian b7. I think I did this kind of workout for 3-4 pairings I really liked (probably # 4-5-7-8 in the book, I can't remember exactly);

    2-the other thing I did was writing several etudes on different tunes, combining all 10 pairings. The thing that makes this kind of approach sound like an exercise is the fact that you're using two attacks per chord, so mostly half-notes. If you throw in there anticipation, sincopation, different rhythms and alternate chords with single note lines (maybe arpeggiating some of those 3-note structures instead of playing them as voicings), the whole thing will sound much more musical. You can even use this approach to write pretty cool tunes/arrangements to play as a guitar trio. Tim Miller is just a master of this approach. He wrote tons of amazing etudes for himself (not just based on GMC) and would play them for me during lessons. Instead of giving me his etudes to study, he encouraged me to write my own. Maybe I'll record a few and post them on Youtube when I have time.

    I hope this answers your questions.

    Talk to you soon,

    Claudio

  26. #75

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    I've been aware of Mick's approach since The Advancing Guitarist came out in the late 80's. Two of my jazz guitar teachers studied directly with Goodrick. Based on Goodrick's influence, I eventually did 5 years of weekly Classical Guitar lessons (with traditional cats who were not Goodrick disciples) to learn finger style technique and formal music studies.

    I really love Mick's playing with the Greg Hopkins 16 Piece and also the Greg Hopkins Quintet as well as with organist Dan Wall. Mick is the apotheosis of modern ensemble jazz guitar playing in those contexts.

    I have the new book but honestly have not explored it much.