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I sort of thought that might be what you meant. I just don't normally try to switch keys and think of individual modes for each chord. I like to generalize - sort of pick a key center for a group of chords and make alterations from there. For most of the standard standards that'll work. For a tune like "Wave" ( first for bars go Dmaj7, Bbdim, Am7, Gmaj/ Gmin6) then your hand is sort of forced and you have to really know how to go in and out of your modes because there really is no key center to speak of. I guess what I'm trying to says is - make sure you know your modes extremely well because sometimes these tunes will test you, but don't get caught up in trying to make it more complicated then it is. Again, this is the same as everything else. The right answer is totally up to you. As far as a mental approach goes, it's whatever floats your boat. I personally just like to look at something in its simplest terms and then add in the jazzy stuff as a become more comfortable.
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07-04-2008 05:41 PM
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That's true, too. That's one reason that I absolutely love Jerry Garcia. He knows how to take the simplest chord progressions and make them sound crazy. "Fire on the Mountain" is that way. The entire song is just a jam over a Bmaj and an Amaj. When you think about the possibilities that leaves you, your head can start spinning. You could play in Emaj over the whole thing if you wanted, but Jerry likes to dance between keys a lot. In the little intro riff that he does before he starts singing, he uses B Lydian (F# maj). That would be a situation where the modes could come in handy. Jam rock sort of stuff that has three or four chords in it. You can really spice some stuff up if you know how to throw different modes in different spots. Over functional chord progressions with changes on every two beats like a typical standard, I would simplify everything as much as possible until your totally comfortable.
Originally Posted by Claudi
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Dmathews that is what I am thinking exactly. When I see a ii -v- I I play in the key of the I. It seems like most of the standards I play are based almost entirely in the major key of the song with some chromatic color. I just don't want it to sound like one poster who said he was "turned off from jazz because it sounded like scales over chords."
Thanks to you and Claudi
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Alright, I get what your saying. I just think one of the most frustrating things in the world is seeing people who get annoyed with and/or turned off to improv because they start hearing the theory and get overwhelmed because they think it's too complicated. It's really not. I was just making sure. haha...
by the way....
I don't know who that poster was, but I just got two CDs today. Charlie Christian - The Original Guitar Hero, and Paul Desmond - Desmond Blue. Desmond has Jim Hall playing with him. If you can listen to either one of those and think that jazz sounds like scales over chords, then I give up. haha.
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Dmathews - Thanks for the response. I heard Joe Pass interviewed once and he said he doesn't play scales or modes, just pretty melodies. This led me to think that if you play a great sounding solo there may be a "mode" for each chord but more likely , what you were saying, probably a scale over a few chords or tonal area. I also wonder if practicing modes all over the neck generates less creative melodies than just listening to the harmony and generating arps and melodies based on chord movement. How much does theory follow practice rather than the reverse??
Sailor
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Sorry, but I'm not sure I understand the question. I like the Joe Pass quote though. Sounds like something he would say. He always struck me as pleasantly arrogant. Not narcissistic or arrogant in any bad way, but had just enough swagger to be funny and entertaining. When I first heard him, I was impressed but didn't really enjoy him all that much. He's grown on me, though. Definitely among my favorites now. Entertaining person too.
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Melody should come first. You can't go wrong trying to create melodies and appealing phrases without over analysing their structure. A good melodic phrase will have its own force and will flow over a chord progression, often defying analysis. Having said that, I will quickly add that for every string of notes you play there will exist someone who will feel the need to assign some exotic scale to fit it inside some theory... but if the melody stands alone, what's the point. I'm not saying that theory and analysis is wrong ...it is an essential vehicle to communicate and instruct music but it is not a necessary prerequisite to playing melodies. Here's a quote that might help shape your viewpoint. Originally Posted by Sailor
'The whole idea of soloing from a scale is wrong. It's like putting a cart before a horse. A scale maybe technically appropriate for a given key but most great players don't use scales to improvise, and jazz musicians never have. Improvisation comes from melody not from scales'.
- John Scofield
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I think that the scales are a necessary part of improvisation but they shouldn't be everything. They're the most basic foundation that I use when I improvise. I actually like that word... I think foundation's a good word. They're like the foundation of the house, they allow you a great basic starting point, but if all you have is that foundation, then you really don't have much of a house to live in. For me scales are great for organizing my options, reference points, arpeggios are sort of the same way. They're great to visualize and they're incredibly useful to USE for soloing, but not to RELY ON. If you find yourself running up and down scales or arpeggios, no matter how creative the choice of mode or chord is, it's going to sound like an excercise.
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Hi, everyone!
In a Joe Pass' instructional video he says he doesn't like scales. Yeah, alright! For someone who has been playing jazz his whole life that can be true but for someone who's starting the scale is a very useful guide. Every scale I play now can sound very jazzy by simply adding some chromatics. Sometimes I mix scales with chromatics or go from one scale to another one with chromatics until I have played all the scales I know. I'm just experimenting things and they all sound jazzy.
What i mean with this is that I'm playing all the scales but altogether is NO scale but I have to have something to guide me to play like this. This guide is called "scale". Possibly in future I won't need to think of scales but now I do.
Dmatthew is right: we don't have to sound like an exercise.
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