If you have to play fast to sound good, you are using speed to cover up other flaws i

**sgcim** · 04-24-2025, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by supersoul

It's turned out to be not such a bad thread after all. For one thing, it's solved a question that I've had for a long time, which is the origin of "502 Blues (Drinkin' and Driving)" by Jimmy Rowles. It's on Wayne Shorter's album Adam's Apple; I've always liked it but could never find any other versions.
I went down a Frank Strozier rabbit hole yesterday and came across the Shelley Manne album Perk Up, which also has the tune, except it's just named "Drinkin' and Drivin'". The arrangements are much different.
The Wayne album was recorded in '66, while the Shelley Manne album was recorded in '67 but didn't come out until '76.

Frank was part of the Miles Davis Quintet when Cannonball left, but for some reason Miles didn't keep him.
The thread still sucks.

**nevershouldhavesoldit** · 04-24-2025, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by sgcim

The thread still sucks.

Aw, gee whiz! It was started with a lemon, but we made lemonade.

**sgcim** · 04-24-2025, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit

Aw, gee whiz! It was started with a lemon, but we made lemonade.

You made it lemonade.

**Greywolf** · 04-25-2025, 05:13 AM

In my early days I wanted to be able to play fast flowing Charlie Parker lines, then an early Mentor pulled me aside and said " I really like your playing , but if you played 1/4 as many notes I think the audience would like it a lot more ..."

It was a bit painful at the time , but I learned to adopt the BB King approach and play what's needed ..

I now play to the tempo that fits the composition the best , rather that try to impress with chops.

**Hep To The Jive** · 04-25-2025, 05:35 AM

usually if you can play fast you can always scale back to play slow, it's just a matter of taste and mindset. But if you can't play fast it's a phisycal limitation and you have to default to playing slow, it's not like you got a choice! It might work for some styles, but def not for jazz. So what to do? You can work on your chops, or you can take to the forum and make yourself feel better by starting 'speed debate' threads. But I think the first one works better in the long run.

**ragman1** · 04-25-2025, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive

usually if you can play fast you can always scale back to play slow, it's just a matter of taste and mindset. But if you can't play fast it's a phisycal limitation and you have to default to playing slow, it's not like you got a choice! It might work for some styles, but def not for jazz. So what to do? You can work on your chops, or you can take to the forum and make yourself feel better by starting 'speed debate' threads. But I think the first one works better in the long run.

And if anyone thinks this guy doesn't know what he's talking about, he does. Take note!

**Dean_G** · 04-25-2025, 03:44 PM

If you need to play fast to sound good, play fast.

**Jimmy blue note** · 04-25-2025, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Dean_G

If you need to play fast to sound good, play fast.

If you need to play fast to keep the gig and stay off the streets, play fast and marry the waitress.

**Christian Miller** · 04-25-2025, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by Greywolf

In my early days I wanted to be able to play fast flowing Charlie Parker lines, then an early Mentor pulled me aside and said " I really like your playing , but if you played 1/4 as many notes I think the audience would like it a lot more ..."

It was a bit painful at the time , but I learned to adopt the BB King approach and play what's needed ..

I now play to the tempo that fits the composition the best , rather that try to impress with chops.

Clearly an era before Instagram