Anyone tune all 6 strings to 4ths?

[pamosmusic]

@Christian Miller

I would agree, Ant Law is a monster player. He can do insane tapping/shred guitar things, in addition to the Jazz albums he puts out. His YT channel has a lot of interesting collaborations with artists across the musical spectrum.

Along with Ant. and previously mentioned, Tom Quayle, Stanley Jordan, and Alex Hutchings, P4 guitar definitely piqued my interest in exploring the tuning from the perspective of writing my own music. Seeing, and hearing them play has been truly inspiring.

Worth mentioning that that's a series of extremely gifted and also idiosyncratic players.

I don't doubt that perfect fourths tuning makes Stanley Jordan's music easier, for example. Doing the two hand tapping is probably much easier with the symmetry and makes some of the impossible stuff he plays marginally less impossible. But I'm not sure that's a reason to switch unless you want to play Stanley Jordan's music.

[GuyBoden]

@GuyBoden

I certainly can appreciate what you're saying. Playing for decades, in standard tuning myself, it's familiar, and what's ingrained in your mind and muscle memory, which can be difficult to let go initially.

While P4 guitar isn't for everyone, given that guitar instruction and repertoire is heavily based on standard tuning. However, if the goal is to develop your own voice on the instrument, perhaps tuning in fourths allows one a different path forward in learning, creating, and expressing their musical ideas.

Although resources are rather sparse at the moment, I have been able to find videos and written information on all fourths tuning to warrant further investigation.

I gathered a lot of info about P4 over 15 years, but Graham Young from Leeds, who taught Tom Quayle P4 Tuning is a good teacher.

Below are my original CAGED type fingering patterns for P4 tuning. They're two 'One Octave Scale Patterns' linked together. (I also use 3NPS patterns too, but CAGED are best for adding chromatics.)

My advice is still, Don't change to P4.

[Christian Miller]

@Christian Miller

I would agree, Ant Law is a monster player. He can do insane tapping/shred guitar things, in addition to the Jazz albums he puts out. His YT channel has a lot of interesting collaborations with artists across the musical spectrum.

Along with Ant. and previously mentioned, Tom Quayle, Stanley Jordan, and Alex Hutchings, P4 guitar definitely piqued my interest in exploring the tuning from the perspective of writing my own music. Seeing, and hearing them play has been truly inspiring.

Nice! More people should watch Ants channel. Hard to get people to listen to original music on YouTube tho.

I know Ant IRL a bit, jammed with him over the years. Good bloke. Massive respect for him.

He can certainly shred but that’s not so much what impresses me about him. I mean he could do all that stuff fifteen years ago when he first arrived in London. He’d recently moved over to playing jazz at the point I think when I met him. I think he was getting more interested in composing over the years.

Years later showed me some of the charts he plays with Trio HLK and they are absolutely bobbins. He’s an excellent musician, and he works incredibly hard and gigs a lot. His guy is Ben Monder.

He’ll play what’s right for the song and the gig, and he’ll do his homework, just like Ben.

So I’d say he is a very dedicated contemporary jazz guy on a deep level. He’s not just blowing legato licks on Sunny or whatever (not that there’s anything wrong with that.)

He can swing too.

Another great Scot - Kevin Glasgow. Bass player, used to be in a band called Kam’s Palace with Alex H. Virtuoso who can groove! Also a great straight ahead guitarist and another P4 guy (makes sense if you play bass).

Plays with Nick Meier’s band if you know him. And Dave Preston who’s another beast, the band Glasgow Preston Lowe you might know. I think Dave’s in standard though haha.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[meurglys]

@Christian Miller

I live to discover new sounds and artists. I have the album "Something About Rainbows", by Preston Glasgow Lowe. Very nice indeed! I also, enjoy your YT channel Jazz Guitar Scapbook. Lot's of cool, useful tips

[meurglys]

@GuyBoden

Because we all tend to view the guitar visually, by shapes and patterns; the way I think of it, is that basically, the bottom four strings are the same as in standard tuning, and the notes on top two strings are lowered a semitone in P4. Which, in of itself, may trip up those used to seeing the major scale (or any scale), chord shape, pentatonics, arpeggios vertically in standard tuning.

[rodolfoguitarra]

I changed to P4 tuning about 15 years ago. After about 30 years of standard tuning.

My advice is don't use P4 tuning. Change back to standard tuning now or (like me) you'll regret it in the long term.

Why do you regret it? Why don’t you go back to standard tuning again?

[GuyBoden]

Why do you regret it? Why don’t you go back to standard tuning again?

Why do you regret it?
All standard guitar tutorials/books/methods/lessons etc have to be transposed to P4 tuning. Learning most standard Guitar lines for the treble strings are more difficult in P4. Stretch Chords are too difficult in P4 compared to standard.

Why don’t you go back to standard tuning again?
I've invested too much time into P4 and it's become instinctive, I'm aged in my 60's, I'm getting too old to change, I feel there's not enough time left for me to change back to standard tuning (10+ years would be needed).

[rodolfoguitarra]

I’ve been using P4 tuning for 8 years now (before that, I spent 15 years in standard tuning). IMHO, it’s perfect for jazz because it’s a style that isn’t reliant on guitar-specific tunings, unlike blues or flamenco. As jazz players, we spend a lot of time learning material from horns and piano. If you enjoy playing music from other instruments on your guitar, improvising, or composing, P4 tuning is ideal. However, if you’re unsure about switching from standard to P4, my recommendation is to stick with standard tuning.

[GuyBoden]

However, if you’re unsure about switching from standard to P4, my recommendation is to stick with standard tuning.

Good advice.

[paulkogut]

I recall Mick Goodrick being asked about P4 tuning. His response "I considered it, there are certainly benefits to the symmetry, but ultimately there was too much meat on that triad (D-G-B strings) to let standard tuning go..."

PK

[mr. beaumont]

I recall Mick Goodrick being asked about P4 tuning. His response "I considered it, there are certainly benefits to the symmetry, but ultimately there was too much meat on that triad (D-G-B strings) to let standard tuning go..."

PK

That triad is pretty fantastic, isn't it?

[GuyBoden]

I recall Mick Goodrick being asked about P4 tuning. His response "I considered it, there are certainly benefits to the symmetry, but ultimately there was too much meat on that triad (D-G-B strings) to let standard tuning go..."

That triad is pretty fantastic, isn't it?

I'd guess that's the reason why standard tuning became the most popular Guitar tuning. Easier for playing chords.

If it wasn't for the Guitar, we could have still been playing the 6 string Bass Viol da Gamba, they are tuned from low to high to: D2 - G2 - C3 - E3 - A3 - D4. (note the triad C3 - E3)


Below:
Instrument: Viol da Gamba
Maker: Ventura di Francesco de' Macchettis Linarol
Date:1582
Place Made: Venice, Italy, Europe





Edit: Length 61.3 cm approx 25inches. Lower bout 34cm approx 13 1/2 inches.

[RJVB]

If it wasn't for the Guitar, we could have still been playing the 6 string Bass Viol da Gamba

Well, no. Firstly, by the end of the viol's career the 7-string bass viol (with an additional low A) had taken over just about everywhere, but it wasn't the guitar that detroned the instrument. Not only because the guitar as we know it is a (late) 19th century instrument, but if anything it's also the successor of the lute family.
Viols and lutes co-existed for centuries. We'll see how long guitar and cello will co-exist but for now it's much more of a LAT relationship

EDIT:
but yes, this would be one hell of a guitar:

[GuyBoden]

Well, no. Firstly, by the end of the viol's career the 7-string bass viol (with an additional low A) had taken over just about everywhere, but it wasn't the guitar that detroned the instrument. Not only because the guitar as we know it is a (late) 19th century instrument, but if anything it's also the successor of the lute family.
Viols and lutes co-existed for centuries. We'll see how long guitar and cello will co-exist but for now it's much more of a LAT relationship

EDIT:
but yes, this would be one hell of a guitar:

Yes, I'd like to try a Viol da Gamba.

[RJVB]

Yes, I'd like to try a Viol da Gamba.

I'd love to play one too, but each time I think that I just remind myself what a set of gut strings would cost... (For a while I tried to settle with a viol-player gf but that didn't work out either )

There's this guy in the US building "guitarviols" though...

[GuyBoden]

I'd love to play one too, but each time I think that I just remind myself what a set of gut strings would cost... (For a while I tried to settle with a viol-player gf but that didn't work out either )

There's this guy in the US building "guitarviols" though...

Yes, and gut strings are always going out of tune with the slightest humidity.

The Arpeggione 1823?

[RJVB]

Yes, and gut strings are always going out of tune with the slightest humidity.

Actually, modern gut strings are pretty reliable, esp. the oiled ones. And it's been almost 20y since I used them... (on a violin, so much thinner strings with proportionally a much larger humidity and temperature exchange surface than the thick strings on guitar or cello/viol).

Yes, the arpeggione was a sort of an attempt to revive the bass viol by a luthier known for his early romantic guitars (Stauffer). Not really certain why, but with its cello-like body it was almost bound to miss a number of the characteristics that make the viol so special.

Hmmm... despite steel strings on nylon frets these sound pretty convincing:
index.html

[Christian Miller]

Yes, I'd like to try a Viol da Gamba.

Why wait?

hire

[jazznylon]

Only reason I keep my standard tuning chops up is because of teaching. I think it would be irresponsible of me to teach them my prefered symmetrical tuning when they're just starting out since its ultimatedly a niche thing.

[rodolfoguitarra]

I recall Mick Goodrick being asked about P4 tuning. His response "I considered it, there are certainly benefits to the symmetry, but ultimately there was too much meat on that triad (D-G-B strings) to let standard tuning go..."

PK

It's curious, but I don't really hear him taking advantage of standard tuning in his playing.

[charlieparker]

I've been using fourths tuning for 5 years but about a month ago went back to standard.

The main reason is that I am really trying to immerse myself in Charlie Christian's music and it is much easier to play his stuff with standard tuning.

I'm also moving away from pure improvisation to a more shape based and lick based approach. Fourths are less of a benefit here.

[GuyBoden]

I've been using fourths tuning for 5 years but about a month ago went back to standard.

The main reason is that I am really trying to immerse myself in Charlie Christian's music and it is much easier to play his stuff with standard tuning.

I'm also moving away from pure improvisation to a more shape based and lick based approach. Fourths are less of a benefit here.

Well done

That is similar to my conclusion too, the top three treble strings in standard tuning are used most frequently for guitaristic type lines. These guitaristic lines are much more difficult to play in P4 tuning.

Some difficult stretch chords using the top three treble strings in standard tuning are totally impossible to play in P4 tuning.

[rodolfoguitarra]

It's curious, but I don't really hear him taking advantage of standard tuning in his playing.

Interesting! Please share your thoughts with us after some time. I don't have any plans to return to standard tuning. After seven years, I do miss standard tuning in a few situations (as human beings, we want it all, lol), but the benefits far outweigh the drawbacks.