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You know who had to hustle gigs and literally drive his band mates to the gigs for the first few years of his career (after getting the sack from his sideman gig?)
Originally Posted by AllanAllen
Go on….
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12-02-2024 02:11 PM
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What value is the time I spend watching tv while I play guitar then? Originally Posted by joe2758
after 11:30 pm is my special Scales While Law and Order Reruns time.
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depends if you gig or not
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It's the thing that helped my playing the most, and it's also something a lot of people are afraid to do. You don't have to know a million scales and chords to start playing with other people. You don't need a Gibson to sound good. It's okay to have a sheet in front of you. You don't need to know 30 bebop heads. Originally Posted by joe2758
There are all these barriers, many of them self imposed, and they just don't friggin matter.
By talking about my gigs, I'm hoping to inspire the person who is where I was 3 years ago. Studying away thinking "one day I'll go to a jam" or "one day I'll put up a Craiglist ad for jazz musicians." Just do that now if you want it.
But Joe, if you like playing at home, just do that too. That's fine, it's your time, we only get so much and I hope you spend zero of it trying to make me happy. Spend your time doing something you enjoy.
I'm just saying, to those nervous types who think they'll enjoy playing live. It can be done.
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Okay then. Better question. Originally Posted by joe2758
What value is the time I spend at my solo gig, looping the turnaround to some ballad because I'm watching the sports highlights on the tv above the bar and lost my place?
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lol much more!
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I'm going to guess... you? Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Miles
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I thought he was talking about me and my highschool band "stabbed in the face"
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Pat Metheny Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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Also Miles haha
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Clearly you need to shed the tune more ahahahhaha Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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If you took a picture of "jazz" it would look like a cloud. Or a Rorschach Inkblot.
In every aspect there are major differences. Great players or popular jazz artists (or however you characterize jazz or jazz adjacent people) all do different things different ways.
Some of us aspire to be the "well rounded jazz musician". And, in fact, some achieve that lofty goal. But not many. Not Wes or Tal, if you count reading as an essential skill. Not Charlie Christian if you count massive chops and upstrokes. Not Chuck Wayne if you want a hard edged pick attack. Not Ted Greene if you count playing lots of gigs (reportedly, he didn't gig much later in his career). Apologies if any of that is incorrect.
I've read lots of "standards" that, apparently, a player must meet or exceed in order to be considered a jazz musician, or something, in somebody's view. But, I tend to rebel against the idea that there is a right way to be a musician or a wrong way. Every person has his own relationship with music.
That much said, what is this thread about?
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Well I have no idea. But I think it may be worth flagging that being a performing musician involves not passing some threshold of ability but very often being willing to take on the extra musical work that getting gigs involves. And I respect that a lot because quite honestly the playing side of it is the fun bit.
(And we do have to deal with a lot of nonsense as musicians.)
Also the things you learn on the bandstand with other musicians on the spot and in front of an audience cannot be learned any other way.
And it’s hard to do which is why I respect it, I need to do more of it myself!
Much like learning music by ear or running in the cold weather we can number the excuses for not doing as essentially never ending. I should know because I make them too haha.
If you just want to have fun on your own, have at it.
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LOL. You make it sound as if people who are happy to do that would even want to be seen as a "Jazz guitarist", be respected for it, or even just be acknowledged, haha. Me, I'm actually too embarrassed to even admit to anyone that I even have a guitar, let alone telling people I spend 20 hours per week playing along with recordings made by junkies who all died decades ago. As for playing live Jazz in front of the kinds of audiences there are for it these days (which I've done), if that's your idea of fun, then go for it! Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Go learn your 200 standards so you can be ready when the annoying singer calls for Misty in D flat, and pat yourself on your back for being professional enough to "cut it". Is the onus on others to respect that? Sorry, I just don't.
(...just expressing the flip side to your viewpoint
)
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Haha, OK so when you hear 'professional jazz guitarist' your brain goes to 'Misty in Db' whereas my brain goes to 'sending emails, designing a website, dealing with clients who think they've booked Postmodern jukebox, chasing unpaid invoices from a month ago, hoping the drummer gets from the other gig on time, trying to get the band in one place at one time so you can have some publicity photos then that don't look like they were shot on a potato, trying to get some bodies down to the gig because the "promoter" is kicking off about low ticket sales, getting home at 2am after a 3 hour drive and knowing I'll be woken up by the kids at 6am, worrying about whether or not the guy at airport check in is going to be awkward about me taking my guitar on as cabin luggage etc etc'. Originally Posted by princeplanet
As for playing live Jazz in front of the kinds of audiences there are for it these days (which I've done), if that's your idea of fun, then go for it! Go learn your 200 standards so you can be ready when the annoying singer calls for Misty in D flat, and pat yourself on your back for being professional enough to "cut it". Is the onus on others to respect that? Sorry, I just don't.
I'm sure you empathise, from your own experience. This is not (just) to moan, it's just to point out stuff that is very much part of the job and the soft skills we must acquire to keep going in this trade. Ask anyone in any job and they'd have their own list. The nice thing is, we get to play music.
So yes, Misty in D flat is, believe it or not, part of the fun part. Also, being annoyed by singers wanting to transpose tunes to suit their voice better is probably a sign that maybe this isn't the right thing for you.
Respect? I'm not sure people in this country respect paramedics.
Of course I am talking about respect within the community. I don't think anyone actively disrespects people who play at home and doesn't play gigs, not everyone wants to be dealing with that stuff.
You might even be playing some great sounding stuff (although I would encourage you at least play out.)
But running a band, getting gigs - that's an admirable thing to do, and the fact that I know what it's like helps me see that. I also know that it will teach a whole bunch of stuff you won't find on a Truefire video. Helping run a local jazz club, that's another thing that deserves respect. And so on and so forth. It's not all about playing killer solos, or even playing an instrument.Last edited by Christian Miller; 12-03-2024 at 07:09 AM.
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... when the sax player starts playing All of Me instead the John Legend song and you're forced to cobble together a solo guitar "arrangement" on the spot for folks to walk down the aisle to bc the guy doesn't know that the JL song exists.
I guess the soft skills part of this is having the nerve to continue to carpool to the gig when the driver starts shaving while driving. Hehe
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You forgot to mention things like the thrill of playing cool music and interacting with good players in front of even 2 or 3 people, where it's just that extra wee bit riskier than the safety of your lounge room etc
There's plenty to say about why gigging is a good thing, but for some of us the down side is too great. I sometimes ask myself, would all my favourite players from the 50's & 60's even have bothered to be Jazz musicians today? With no record deals, gigs or fans (well, next to none). I'd like to think that they would, but I know that if you take away the money, fame and accoutrements, most would have found something else to do.
So of course it's bloody admirable that people play this music with so few people to play it to, it shows they're playing it for the right reasons, the love of the music. And I totally get why road hardened gigging jazz musicians hate how youtube overnight sensations can get more attention than they do, without the hard yards. Just sayin' that not every non gigging musician that plays some kind of Jazz is trying to bluff their way to recognition, that's all.
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Are we sure there was money, fame, and accouterment back in the 60s?
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Only if you ask the guys trying to do it in the 80s. Just like now, where the 80s and 90s were a "golden age" of live music to us. By us I literally mean Peter and I. Not the members here who lived through that scene. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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OK, let's make that pre '65 then... ? Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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