David Baker Bebop Scales — Barry Harris half-steps

[Christian Miller]

Any idea who started the trend? Maybe it's a Berklee mutant?

I don’t know, Reg mentioned Berklee.

The chord scale system does like cute labels for all the seven note pitch sets haha. Seems likely.

As for the original use of the sound, it was new enough in composed music during Mozart’s time for theorists to complain about it.

What Is a Hermaphrodite Note? – Essays on Music

But it seems to have come in earlier in improvisation - as early as the seventeenth century. as they were all comping with jazz chords back then apparently whatever the charts said - 4:23 ish.

[Mick-7]

"When discussing the Fonte, he criticizes a version in which the major segment includes a chromatically lowered sixth scale step as “a wrong hermaphrodite” (“ein verkehrter Zwitter”), although “it pleases hundred connoisseurs” (“Er gefällt hundert Kennern”; Riepel, 1755: 103)."

That's amusing.... damn cross-dressing scale notes will ruin our music!

[Christian Miller]

"When discussing the Fonte, he criticizes a version in which the major segment includes a chromatically lowered sixth scale step as “a wrong hermaphrodite” (“ein verkehrter Zwitter”), although “it pleases hundred connoisseurs” (“Er gefällt hundert Kennern”; Riepel, 1755: 103)."

That's amusing.... damn cross-dressing scale notes will ruin our music!

I know, right!


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[GuyBoden]

Here’s another thing I’ve been working on with the bebop scales.

Just working with realllllly simple formulaic resolutions to the tonic.

Yes, very good stuff, I'll concentrate on really simple lines today. Thanks

Edit: Below, this Dom Half Step Rule 1 example seems really simple:

[pamosmusic]

Yeah those little resolutions are super fun.

[GuyBoden]

'Really Simple' examples for Dom Half Step Rule 1:


Starting from the 1st.



Starting from the 3rd.


Starting from the 5th.


Starting from the b7th.


I've posted all my 'Really Simple Dom Rule 1' examples in this post. Mainly, for my own convenience.

[Petimar]

Barry was as good as anybody. That said he is not my fav to listen to, maybe say top 10, not 1. But I must say his way of teaching a music language and how to acquire it is by far the best I have run into.

I also have to say I got a lot out of the book Forward Motion.

[Bobby Timmons]

Barry was as good as anybody. That said he is not my fav to listen to, maybe say top 10, not 1. But I must say his way of teaching a music language and how to acquire it is by far the best I have run into.

Same with me. I'm getting more and more addicted to his playing though in addition to his teaching. Some of his stuff is too vanilla but some stuff is epic.

[GuyBoden]

I've been working on shortening the Dom Half Step Rule 1 lines.

Example below:


Edit: Updated, improved line.

[GuyBoden]

Still practicing the BH Dom Half Step Rule 1 lines, they are starting to sound a bit more like Jazz.

Below Shortened Line.

[GuyBoden]

I am still working with 'Dom Half Step Rule 1', but starting before the bar, on the beat (4+), using V-I changes.

After these weeks of practice, the lines are starting to get instinctive in most keys.

Example below:

[pamosmusic]

Planning on continuing to check in with this stuff.

I’ve been doing tritone substitutions lately. Using pretty simple embellishments of the line itself, I’ve been running the dominant/bebop scale down to an arpeggio of the tritone dominant scale. Just whatever is closest.

So for G7-Db7 that’s ….

G down to G, but stepping from A down to Ab and running up the Abm7.

F down to F, and running up the Fm7b5

D down to D, but stepping from E down to Eb and running up Ebm7.

B down to B, and running up the Bmaj7.

Resolving these is a bit trickier and probably is video territory. I’ll get there eventually.

[GuyBoden]

Here are two classic David Baker type Bebop phrase endings.

[GuyBoden]

Here are two classic David Baker type Bebop phrase endings.

A few variations on the classic David Baker Book 1 type Bebop phrase endings.

[wolflen]

Here are two classic David Baker type Bebop phrase endings.

Thanks for this stuff Guy..

gave me some extended harmonic/melodic ideas for endings..after the D note..

Eb 6/9
Eb
G
C
F

Ab6/9
Ab
F
Bb
Eb

CM7/G --slow..one note at a time
G
C
E
G open
B open

[GuyBoden]

Interestingly, I remember that Jerry Bergonzi had a slightly different method with Bebop scales, but it had the same result.

The Dom Bebop scale 'BH Half Step Rule 1' was the same with the Jerry Bergonzi method.

But, for other scale degrees, you added an extra approach note to where the initial Bebop Scale begins.

So, the C7 Dom Bebop scale would have a an extra Db note. (Add a flat 2nd)

Examples starting on the 2nd and 4th below:

[GuyBoden]

I am still working with BH 'Dom Half Step Rule 1' including some David Baker too.

Personally, I've been playing these lines repeatedly everyday, then after weeks of this continued practice, the lines have started to occur in my playing style. (I have been playing them in most keys.)

Major V-I example below:

[pamosmusic]

Interestingly, I remember that Jerry Bergonzi had a slightly different method with Bebop scales, but it had the same result.

The Dom Bebop scale 'BH Half Step Rule 1' was the same with the Jerry Bergonzi method.

But, for other scale degrees, you added an extra approach note to where the initial Bebop Scale begins.

So, the C7 Dom Bebop scale would have a an extra Db note. (Add a flat 2nd)

Examples starting on the 2nd and 4th below:

Thats typical of David Bakers stuff. That small distinction between landing on a chord tone and having a chord tone on every downbeat (or as many as possible).

When you start on a chord tone, the differences are negligible, but when you start on a nonchord tone, Barry just has you omit or add and extra half step.

Baker has you make a correction to get chord tones back on downbeats:

1. make the first note a quarter note.
2. syncopate the first chord tone
3. add a passing note before the first chord tone.

[Christian Miller]

Barry Harris scales are a bit like Pokemon

[pamosmusic]

Barry Harris scales are a bit like Pokemon

go on

[GuyBoden]

Barry Harris scales are a bit like Pokemon

Jerry Bergonzi' is a simpler Bebop method. IMHO.

[pamosmusic]

Jerry Bergonzi' is a simpler Bebop method. IMHO.

really?

as far as I know, bergonzi’s is pretty much David Bakers.

though Bergonzi also has bebop modes which is interesting.

He also has loads of really interesting material, just not bebop focused in the same way

[Christian Miller]

go on

It’s a thumbnail….

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[Christian Miller]

I have no experience with Bergonzi’s stuff

You know I’d say pick a thing and practice it for a few years.


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[pamosmusic]

I have no experience with Bergonzi’s stuff

You know I’d say pick a thing and practice it for a few years.


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Hes brilliant. Lots of really nice improvisational stuff that I use all the time. I just don’t really think of him as a bebopper so I think he’s just Bergonzifying some stuff that’s already out there for that