The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I've been told I need to be more thematic with my jazz improv. I've been told this before and I've definitely worked on it.

    The first thing I will say is that some well known players play choruses where they are all over the map with their ideas, but I digress. I do want to do this and I think this will help me in a number of ways.

    So, I'm looking for players, any instrument, but preferably guitar that are very, very thematic with their playing over Real Book One type standards.

    Blatant and obvious is fine and good.

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  3. #2

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    Sonny Rollins

    Sonny Rollins

    Sonny Rollins

    Sonny Rollins

    Sonny Rollins

    Sonny Rollins.

    Hope that helps.

  4. #3

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    I think you're going to find that such a list is synonymous or quite similar to the biggest names, because motivic development is going to be more accessible to listeners and drive appeal. Coherence = depth.

    Sonny Rollins
    Miles Davis
    Wayne Shorter
    Lester Young
    Thelonious Monk
    Bill Evans

    What's most important is that you are drawn to the work that most speaks to you, you figure out what it is you love about it, and train yourself to do that, in your own way.

  5. #4

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    Pat Metheny


  6. #5

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  7. #6

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    Jim Hall was definitely the first name that came to mind.

  8. #7
    Here's one from me...

    Keep em coming.


  9. #8

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    Why limit yourself to guitar players? The best players in this dept. are not guitar players (although Wes had a thing...).

    Did somebody say Sonny Rollins?

    Study him for a few years, you're bound to learn a thing or two about theme and variations...

  10. #9

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    A famous analysis of Sonny Rollins’ thematic methods:

    https://www.jazzstudiesonline.org/fi...aticImprov.pdf

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    A famous analysis of Sonny Rollins’ thematic methods:

    https://www.jazzstudiesonline.org/fi...aticImprov.pdf
    Amazing! Thanks for sharing!

  12. #11

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    I read about that article years ago but never saw it until I googled it yesterday.

    Apparently Sonny Rollins was so psychologically affected by this dissection of his own methods (which he was not conscious of) that it put him off playing for a while!

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    I read about that article years ago but never saw it until I googled it yesterday.

    Apparently Sonny Rollins was so psychologically affected by this dissection of his own methods (which he was not conscious of) that it put him off playing for a while!
    Really? Where did you read that? Wow, sounds like that knowing there were guys out there analysing him to pieces really spooked him!

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    Really? Where did you read that? Wow, sounds like that knowing there were guys out there analysing him to pieces really spooked him!
    It’s in the book ‘Open Sky’ by Eric Nisenson. Sonny said it made him so self-conscious for a while that he found it hard to just relax and play. He didn’t want to read anything like it again.

    Fortunately he soon got over it and just got on with playing as normal!

  15. #14

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    Listen to Sonny Rollins’ album ‘The Bridge’ and then you get Sonny and Jim Hall together!

  16. #15

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    I was listening to Brad Mehldau on Pete Bernstein’s latest and it struck me how motivic he is.


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  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    I was listening to Brad Mehldau on Pete Bernstein’s latest and it struck me how motivic he is.


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    I was listening yesterday to Rosenwinkel's Live at Smalls, 1996 and had the same response. Brad even quotes a fragment from the head to 'St Thomas' in his 'Zhivago' solo!

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMB
    I was listening yesterday to Rosenwinkel's Live at Smalls, 1996 and had the same response. Brad even quotes a fragment from the head to 'St Thomas' in his 'Zhivago' solo!
    Dude Kurt from that era is so good. Maybe not thematic in the way we’re talking about but Intuit is one of my absolute faves.

  19. #18

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    I always turn to Keith Jarrett. His playing draws from themes derived from the original melody, previous lyrical phrases and they always have an original and strong theme developed in a manner that is the highest level of craft.
    Also listen to Lester Young, and you'll hear how his treatment of the motific idea informs a very singable line and points to the improvisational and compositional sense of those who followed, like Sonny Rollins, Paul Desmond, Lee Konitz.

    Dexter Gordon also has an uncanny way of taking an idea that is so simple, yet strong that many players would note even know how to develop it. Yet he can spin an entire solo from it.

    Monk takes rhythmic motif to another level. Study Monk and your ear will grow. Understand what he's doing and you're soloing will become compositional. This is very strongly evidenced in Coltrane before and after he worked with Monk.

  20. #19

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    I'd say Art Tatum had some pretty thematic playing when he improvised on standards. He seems to have no end to his ability to vary up a melody line with interesting melodic and rhythmic additions and alterations. Maybe I'm off base.

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by DawgBone
    I'd say Art Tatum had some pretty thematic playing when he improvised on standards. He seems to have no end to his ability to vary up a melody line with interesting melodic and rhythmic additions and alterations. Maybe I'm off base.
    But only because most piano players struggle to learn anything from Tatum's example, let alone us guitar whackers!

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
    I always turn to Keith Jarrett. His playing draws from themes derived from the original melody, previous lyrical phrases and they always have an original and strong theme developed in a manner that is the highest level of craft.
    Also listen to Lester Young, and you'll hear how his treatment of the motific idea informs a very singable line and points to the improvisational and compositional sense of those who followed, like Sonny Rollins, Paul Desmond, Lee Konitz.

    Dexter Gordon also has an uncanny way of taking an idea that is so simple, yet strong that many players would note even know how to develop it. Yet he can spin an entire solo from it.

    Monk takes rhythmic motif to another level. Study Monk and your ear will grow. Understand what he's doing and you're soloing will become compositional. This is very strongly evidenced in Coltrane before and after he worked with Monk.
    +1

    Yes, no wonder I love listening to all the players you mention here... hmm... too bad I don't sound like any of them...

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by princeplanet
    +1

    Yes, no wonder I love listening to all the players you mention here... hmm... too bad I don't sound like any of them...
    Big smile of "I can relate"! One thing I can say is a LOT of listening, before and after your practice. It's not only inspiring, but it frames your time with the guitar with thoughts of phrasing and sound that's inspiring and instructional.
    The moment I stopped thinking scales, arpeggios and patterns and started thinking Choices and Intention, I listened differently, heard more and played more creatively and cohesively. And I began to not only love the music but to own my own abilities.

    It took all of those cats a LONG time to become the people we look to. Love it and immerse yourself in the process.
    It will reward you for doing.

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by grahambop
    I read about that article years ago but never saw it until I googled it yesterday.

    Apparently Sonny Rollins was so psychologically affected by this dissection of his own methods (which he was not conscious of) that it put him off playing for a while!
    And there's the story of the fan who met Coltrane after a show and handed him a number of manuscript pages filled with notes. Coltrane looked at it and shook his head apologetically saying "I'm sorry I could never play this" to which the fan said "It's you. I transcribed this from a solo of yours." and Trane just shook his head and smiled.

    Some things come from a place of understanding that is beyond the realm of "understanding".

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
    And there's the story of the fan who met Coltrane after a show and handed him a number of manuscript pages filled with notes. Coltrane looked at it and shook his head apologetically saying "I'm sorry I could never play this" to which the fan said "It's you. I transcribed this from a solo of yours." and Trane just shook his head and smiled.

    Some things come from a place of understanding that is beyond the realm of "understanding".
    In Lewis Porter's biography of Trane there is mention of a classical pianist Zito Carno who had such good ears that she was able to construct leadsheets of his tunes while he played them. Apparently she wrote down some tunes of Trane that he never recorded.

    Except she is described as Trane's friend. Is this who you're talking about, I wonder?

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by James W
    In Lewis Porter's biography of Trane there is mention of a classical pianist Zito Carno who had such good ears that she was able to construct leadsheets of his tunes while he played them. Apparently she wrote down some tunes of Trane that he never recorded.

    Except she is described as Trane's friend. Is this who you're talking about, I wonder?
    Yes! That's it. Thanks for the details.
    Yeah I met Lewis Porter and he had SO many anecdotes and stories, and truly one of the most informed scholars yet possessed of a gift for narrative story telling.
    Great story and a good inspiration to develop one's ear!