-
Originally Posted by Mick-7
But also his left hand is perfect.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
05-16-2024 05:03 PM
-
Originally Posted by AllanAllen
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
-
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
-
Originally Posted by Mick-7
-
Originally Posted by Mick-7
I like Denis Chang’s term - violin technique - for ‘three fingers.’ I learned that from a girlfriend years ago who played violin. So we can divide polyphonic technique (CG) from violin technique.
Both have their ups and downs. CG technique to be perfect requires a few things that Peter would be better qualified to comment on, but includes equality between all four fingers. Hard to achieve. Adam has it. So does Pasquale and Ben Monder.
I wonder if it isn’t something best developed in childhood?
Anyway… most of the video is not specific to violin technique but it works well with that approach.
Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkLast edited by Christian Miller; 05-17-2024 at 04:02 AM.
-
It seems to me people don’t look at the left hand with the same mentality as the right. With picking we can say that there various picking approaches and stances of great pickers represent often quite diverse solutions to the same problems. Some might argue that one way or other is the best way, but I think most are open to different schools of picking existing and being equally valid.
Otoh with left hand people seem to more likely to argue that’s there’s a single correct approach. I find this odd when we have so many counter examples - maybe the majority of players historically!
It’s also a matter of personal physical characteristics. FWIW I do think CG style technique works better for those with small hands. But I’m not 100%. Conversely Django was obviously not going to be using CG left hand lol (to take an extreme case). But those aspects being equal it does seem to me that you can choose an approach.
Also it varies by instrument. My old ES175 with its funny skinny little neck does not like a ‘legit’ CG left hand but is very comfortable if I go thumb-over. My modern 335 has a much wider neck and is comfortable either way.
Something I found out the painful way is that you can’t pick and choose elements of classical technique. You have to accept the whole thing. Posture supports left hand positioning. You can give yourself carpal tunnel by using a folk guitar position and a very legit left hand. In teaching kids I have to compromise a bit.
Unless a player is in a particular school of jazz technique (Chuck Wayne, Rodney Jones etc) it seems to me the physical aspect of jazz guitar is often left up to the player…
-
Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
My pinkie finger is equally as bad as the rest of my fingers for fretting.
I've accepted my limited ability for speed and really enjoy just playing slowly.
I had Classical Guitar lessons as a teenager, so my CG technique is thumb behind the neck.
I'm too old to change to using three fingers and see no reason too, it does seem faster using certain phrasing (Bebop), but slower at others.
George Orwell's fretting hand quote: "All fingers are equal, but some player's fingers seem a lot more equal than others."
-
Maybe - but my experience is most students have limited appetite and patience for practicing anything consistently regardless of what it is.
Tbf it takes a lot of concentration. Some would say all true practice does.
I think kids are easier to talk into it and more open to trying new things. Adults are more likely to rationalise their way out of trying things - me as much as anyone haha.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
-
Originally Posted by GuyBoden
I usually tell people to pick a small part of their practice time to focus on the change like a laser beam and then just not worry about it for the rest of the time.
Gradually it will start to show up. It’ll take longer to sink in, certainly, but you also won’t be utterly miserable while you work on it.
Works better with some things than with others too. Changing how you hold a pick? I think it’s more of a practical consideration to keep someone from giving up. Changing to playing with three fingers? I actually think this piecemeal approach would work really well because there’s no requirement that you always play with just three fingers — getting better at being mobile and flexible in that way would be an end in itself.
-
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
I like Denis Chang’s term - violin technique - for ‘three fingers.’ I learned that from a girlfriend years ago who played violin. So we can divide polyphonic technique (CG) from violin technique.
Both have their ups and downs. CG technique to be perfect requires a few things that Peter would be better qualified to comment on, but includes equality between all four fingers.
He definitely wasn’t talking about using only three fingers—more about the angle of the fingers against the strings—but still.
-
Ah yes, the old "where does the thumb go" dilemma... When I did the Rock/Blues thing, like most, the thumb was always visible over the edge of the neck. Once I got serious about Jazz, the thumb (unconsciously) slipped down and often lived near the middle of the neck's thickness. This is how I learned CG, so there was a precedent, and hence a relatively easy adjustment.
Only very recently have I tried to play certain lines with the thumb up higher and it's amazing how different that feels! There's more strength and less fatigue, but at the expense of fretting and slurring accuracy (especially around the thicker strings). I've also started noticing how some players often switch thumb position even mid-line (Metheny?).
To the members - Where does your thumb hang out (or not)?
-
I'm really finding this discussion in the last dozen posts or so very helpful. Some really fine players (you guys!) and very thoughtful as well, bringing a lot of knowledge, experience, and chops to the table. I never thought before about how we tend to be very accepting of lots of different right-hand technique (even Chicken-Pickin') but can get really testy about left-hand. I wonder if it's because we never think much about the right hand unless we get in a jam? I am a slow to moderate tempo player, so I can get away with erratic picking, up, down, whatever. But as tempo increases and the bebop lines get more testy, I get more worried about how I'm picking.
Left hand... I will hook the thumb to grab a note on the 6th string pretty often, but generally it sits just above the centerline of the neck.
-
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
-
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
"Unless a player is in a particular school of jazz technique (Chuck Wayne, Rodney Jones etc) it seems to me the physical aspect of jazz guitar is often left up to the player… "
Could you please explain what you mean by that statement? Are you referring to their phrasing? Chuck Wayne did a lot of sweep picking but he also played classical music, Joe Puma said he played Bach very well.
One time I was in New York City and heard that Chuck Wayne would be at a club, took a long taxi cab ride there only to find that he couldn't make it that night - what a let down!
-
Originally Posted by Mick-7
Contrast that with beginning piano or violin pedagogy.
One time I was in New York City and heard that Chuck Wayne would be at a club, took a long taxi cab ride there only to find that he couldn't make it that night - what a let down!
2. You learned a valuable lesson. Nothing is worth a long cab ride in New York City. Between the hours of 5:00am and 11:50pm, the train is faster and costs one twentieth the fare. Let this be a lesson to you all.
-
Originally Posted by Mick-7
Schools of jazz technique - Rodney jones teaches what is often called ‘benson technique’ for the right hand. Two of his students are Sheryl Bailey and Miles Okazaki. However while Sheryl has a very classical left hand, Miles quite consciously moved towards three fingered ‘violin technique’ and wrote a good article about it. I don’t know what Rodney recommends if anything for left hand, maybe others could help on this.
Players in the Chuck Wayne tradition - Pasquale, Ben Monder, Jack Wilkins have a very specific technique that they all use, a bit like economy picking. I think the left hand is very classical. This is a school that has a clear view on everything.
You also have things like the Berklee Modern Method (Leavitt)
But that aside, it seems that many uni level players are expected to have it sorted out. I think the amount of specific advice in terms of technique really depends on the teacher, but many are more music focussed. (Some have more of a compulsion to rebuild players techniques in a certain mould.)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Interesting video especially if you bought the book haha
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Originally Posted by pamosmusic
-
Originally Posted by Mick-7
Allan Holdsworth started learning Violin in Manchester in the 1960's, when he was playing in the area in a covers band or cabaret band as they were known then.
Quote from Allan Holdsworth interview: "I played the violin for a couple years too, but I missed playing chords. So I went back to the guitar"
In Memoriam: DownBeat’s Final Interview with Allan Holdsworth
-
Originally Posted by GuyBoden
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
-
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
-
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Since then I've changed to playing in classical position and to keeping my left wrist straight. Every once in a while I'll practice something that will cause a flare up, but for the most part it's not an issue anymore.
Reflecting on that makes me appreciate how valuable a teacher can be. I've always been a bit stubborn and indepent so I may have done it anyway, but it would've been nice to have someone show me the right way.
weights for strap to counterbalance neck heavy...
Today, 11:53 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos