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I think it's something about trying to teach a pig to sing. You waste your time and aggravate the pig.
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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04-02-2024 10:32 AM
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The one I was thinking of (that I've seen attributed to Twain) is "Never argue with a stupid person. They'll drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience."
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He even admitted that it was an exercise, and he never played it on a gig. He actually did show it to Tommy Flanagan the day before the recording session, and TF said 'no problem', but he didn't know that he was going to have to blow on it or what tempo Trane was going to play it at! Originally Posted by Mick-7
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Coltrane did play giant steps live. Several friends of mine heard him do it and countdown live. There aren't any great live recordings of it but there's this one... Originally Posted by sgcim
the uploader has disabled playing this on other sites so you'll have to piece this together. Remove the space after youtube. and piece the other part onto the end.
youtube. com/
watch?v=6eLCZIk6DJwLast edited by jzucker; 04-02-2024 at 08:28 PM.
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I stand corrected. Too bad it's such a lousy recording. At least he gave himself a break on the tempo. Originally Posted by jzucker
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Or was he giving the band members a break? Originally Posted by sgcim
I think wynton does a good job on it, sounds pretty melodic. Wish we could have heard bird or adderly play over it.
And of course there's ben eunson
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I'll go to my grave saying it...Giant Steps is a catchy tune.
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I dunno … is he making the changes? Originally Posted by jzucker
(Kiddingkiddingkiddingkidding)
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"I dunno … is he making the changes?"
I don't think he is actually, notice he has no harmonic accompaniment, only bass. Not that it really matters, because it's not musical at all, I couldn't even listen to the whole thing.
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I regret this joke immediately.
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lol, yes he's making the changes. Sheesh...This place!
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If you hum the melody along with Ben's video, he's not only making the changes, he's doing it better than most players I've ever heard play it!
I think part of the problem with a video like this is advertising the bpm, the clock on the wall to prove it's not sped up...but that's what gets clicks these days. It's a bummer I think it detracts from how good his playing actually is.
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Yep. He's actually using a lot of altered dominant language over the V-I relationships in the chord progression and a lot of wider intervals due to his stylistic leanings and fingerings. Again, making statements about him not making the changes reminds me of guys saying coltrane and brecker were pattern players and not jazz players (which is also among some of the postings I've seen on here...) Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I mean, whether you like it or not is subjective. But to make statements about not making the changes is another thing altogether.
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If it would help, I’d be more than happy to post a video of myself playing Giant Steps 150 clicks slower so we can all hear for sure what it sounds like when someone’s not making the changes.
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i probably would have enjoyed it more if he had used a samba rhythm or a16th groove. the content may be hip but the jazz rhythms are just not there for me to enjoy. Originally Posted by Mick-7
with all the accents on the heavy beats and slurring the wrong way (for jazz) it creates a cognitive dissonance for me. it's like a good drummer but the hihat is on one and three.
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Welcome to the pit I live in. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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the accents are not on the heavy beats. High-hat is on 2 & 4. Listen again. Originally Posted by djg
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i'm not talking about the backing track. i'm talking about the guitarist attacking the on-beats and sliding/ hammering into the off-beats like a rock guitarist. it creates such a weird and uncomfortable feel against the swing track, like someone clapping on one and three. Originally Posted by jzucker
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Wynton Marsails' quartet swings right over it.
Honestly, if nobody told me Giant Steps was hard, I wouldn't know by listening. Not sure why people say it sounds like an exercise, it sounds like a jazz tune to me.
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No reason to, don't mind me.... Let me rephrase my comment: I don't really care if he's making the changes because it's not at all musical. But I'm curious now and may transcribe some of it to see. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
P.S. - Did a quick transcription/analysis, he is pretty much "making the changes," but doing so by playing easily transposable scales, patterns and chromatic runs. Fairly easy to transcribe because it's so predictable (piece of cake compared to, say, a Sam Rivers solo), and it sounds much worse at a slower tempo. In fact, I had to stop because it was making me nauseous - I'm kidding, but not much.Last edited by Mick-7; 04-03-2024 at 04:01 PM.
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Got to check out Wynton's version. That is really good.
Jack, I don't think the previous poster was talking about what the drum track was accenting, he was talking about Ben's accents.
At that tempo, everything straightens out a lot...I can't say it bothered me one bit where he was placing his accents. I don't think he was looking for a "bebop was the be all end all of jazz" feel.
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And to this very day r:/jazzcirclejerk still thinks Tommy Flanagan memes are big and clever. Little ****s. Originally Posted by sgcim
Needless to say, Flanagan was a BEAST.
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I like this version
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Metheny's version is killer. Learned the solo a long time ago.
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Bob Brookmeyer refused to play it, along with many other musicians.
I think it's a great tune, but playing it at 320 or faster just results in playing mechanical finger pattern playing-NOT pre-hearing your lines. Robot music:
Though Trane played it on a few gigs, he said it was more an exercise than a tune he'd call on a gig. But he did say the first four chord could be used as a turn around.
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