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Lately I have been trying to develop some serious right hand technique. I keep thinking, “do I really need a pick”?
In my mind Pass could do everything without a pick… with slurs (ligado) he was super fast with single note stuff. I guess it would be difficult to get some of the right articulation…
Does anyone know if he ever addressed why he continued to use a pick?
Does anyone with similar Pass-ian super chops have some insight?
I would just keep my pick in my mouth, like Pass, but I would be scared to swallow it.
Like I said… this could be a stupid question.
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04-03-2023 04:19 PM
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From what I've seen, Pass didn't really have the fingerstyle chops to the extent he'd want to give up using a pick altogether. I remember reading an interview with him where this topic is brought up and IIRC he says something like you'd have had to have trained fingerstyle from a young age to be in a position to give up the pick entirely; whether that's true or not is another issue, but clearly Pass still valued what he got from a plectrum. Martin Taylor still uses a pick - I guess it offers a tonal consistency and dynamic control, not to mention speed, that players even with good fingerstyle chops still value.
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He pulled his pick out of his mouth to play fast single note passages. Using his fingers for same resulted in a lot of slurs.
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Thank you both.
I do wonder how fast I can get using free strokes. Rest strokes seem to be easier to get faster, but then you have all the issues with that.
Then again how fast is needed…?
I guess I will have to just see how well I can organically integrate things. I set a goal of till summer to see. I spent about nine months doing classical guitar stuff, and I do not want to lose all those chops, as I get back into my primary focus.
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Joe talks about pick vs. fingers at the end of this 1974 interview (from ‘Guitar’ magazine).
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He had great depth in his fingerstyle playing, but he was also a shredder. You don't really want to ditch the pick for shredding. He played both approaches equally well.
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Just to add that back in the 80s I used to see Joe playing solo at Ronnie Scotts quite a few times. As I recall, although most of his set was played fingerstyle, at some point he would always pull out a pick and play one tune really fast with the pick. I guess he liked to show he could do it!
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These really useful insights.
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Well, classical right hand is different from what one does on a steel string guitar, with closer string spacing, different kinds of melodies and chords etc. You could always just keep up the classical playing to one degree or another. Just a thought.
Originally Posted by st.bede
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Brilliant.
I think he sounded best when he used his thumb, like on the Carmen McRae "Great American Songbook album.
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why did Joe Pass use a pick?
So he could play quicker. Probably clearer too.
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In this 1994 clip Joe talks further about his right hand technique starting at 17:56 Originally Posted by grahambop
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Yes, I think that's right. Both players started their careers playing with picks. Originally Posted by James W
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there are now quite a few exceptional players that have developed finger style / pick playing
the "hybrid" style is used by some top players..Tom Quayle being one
Matteo Mancuso has some monster technique using just his fingers but does use a pick on occasion
Joe was a very unique player a style all his own .. fingers or pick
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Both picking and fingerstyle require a lot of practice. Originally Posted by st.bede
I have the same problem. I graduated from classical guitar school.
I don't currently play classical pieces but I have leftovers of classical guitar technique/right hand/
...so I play a lot of jazz on guitars with nylons.
Joe Pass played in bands with musicians who played very fast tempos, very fast.
With the fingers of his right hand he wouldn't play a solo at such extreme tempos.
Besides, it seems to me that due to the articulation it is good that he used a pick.
I prefer when someone plays, for example, be-bop with a pick.
Equal-sounding eighth notes, sixteenth notes, triplets, etc.
For playing alone without a band, the fingerstyle technique is better digested.
You can also ask why Wes didn't use a pick?
Why didn't Jeff Beck use a pick?
or John Aebercrombie used a pick all the time and then only played with his fingers...why?
also Mick Goodrick...?
Apparently these musicians thought they had better guitar control by using their fingers instead of a pick.
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First of all: thanks to everyone. Originally Posted by kris
I did not know that about Abercrombie. Interesting.
I will have to check out Matteo Mancuso.
One thing that I decided to do, was to
use very little of my nail on my right hand. At one point I was using none. On nylon I would lose some of the bite, but with electric it keeps it fatter and warm. This is even more true with free strokes. I also do not have to worry about damage to the nail. (FYI, I use 9s). Also on electric and free strokes I have a little bit of a different angle. The B and high E string take a lot of focus to get a warm sound, but I feel that will become invisible eventually as my technique gels.
I am just throwing out some ideas in case it helps anyone. I am not far enough down the road to see how well it all works but, there is a certain intimacy with fingers.
My plan is to do a re-assessment around summer.
Again, thank you all. Thank
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Throughout 2022, I only practiced with pick.
From the beginning of 2023 I only play with my fingers...95%.
It's weird.
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Shredding fingerstyle is possible...
Speaking as someone who has switched quite a lot between fingerstyle and using a plectrum I would say developing technique on the former at least for me required much more patience... So much patience in fact that I am only speaking hypothetically, having quit a purely fingerstyle approach in favour of a plectrum, before having acquired any proper fingerstyle chops! I have no intention of going back but while my hybrid picking at the moment is restricted to grabbing chords, I can see myself exploring that more in the future. Pick and fingers complement each other, what's hard for one is easier for the other and vice versa, for some things...
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Interesting... this guitarist doesn't play with a clean sound on this video.
He has great dexterity on the fingers of his right hand
.This technique reminds me a bit of fast-playing flamenco guitarists.
Flamenco technique on the electric guitar.
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"You can also ask why Wes didn't use a pick?"
Wes said he used his thumb because he practiced late into the night and didn't want to disturb the neighbors. It gave him a softer sound
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I started using a five finger picking technique about two years ago.
Here's a video of my playing slowly in my first week. (I'm just a hobby player.)
I have slightly improved over the last two years, but use a lot of legato for faster lines.
I took Classical lessons as a teenager, but mainly played with a pick for more speed. fingerstyle picking is a lot slower than using pick.
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Fingerstyle is best for solo guitar playing, and also in a guitar-bass-drums trio format where you have to have more solo guitar type styling, but Joe used the pick when he was soloing in ensembles. You can hear the positive attack, the much less reliance on slurring, and his pick technique is, in my opinion, immaculate.
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I agree here. Originally Posted by lawson-stone
However, there are recordings in very,very fast tempos, which prove that they are too fast even for a brilliant player.
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I can barely hold on playing that song with a pick. It is amazing to see him doing it finger-style. Originally Posted by James W
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For Joe himself, I would say his single-note line playing with fingers was very slurry. There are probably many players from country or bluegrass that could outperform there.
Personally I favor the pick (and hybrid). There are other reasons to like it beyond the shredder speed aspect. I prefer the range of dynamics you can get and the rhythmic accuracy.
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