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Have you watched the Julian Lage clip in post #52? I might give you some ideas or inspiration.
Originally Posted by GuyBoden
Early days on the Baubles Wk3 ex, I'm really struggling with all them turnarounds, but after a few hours I was improving, if not not improvising.
Glad you're finding your own way.
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03-13-2023 02:56 PM
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Late start on this. Is it this: record the changes, improvise at a slow tempo, keeping a regular stream of 1/8th notes. Use the notated solos as examples.
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Precisely...add to that, improve. Originally Posted by Bach5G
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Where are the notated solos? Originally Posted by Bach5G
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In the Superchops book. They're right after the chord progression page, the 1st one is on page 22 and 23. Originally Posted by charlieparker
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Have you been working with the book? In each project chapter there is a chorus written out by Howard Roberts with a sample solo stuffed full of examples of things you can do. It's like a study answer key for a maths book, heh heh. Originally Posted by charlieparker
If you aren't working with the book (or the pdf I gave you a link to), I highly recommend it. There's so much information to help you use this material.
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Yeah, I was just playing eigthth notes over the chord progressions. Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
This is gives me some additional stuff to look at when I'm stuck.
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This thread and you guys talking about the super chops book, makes me start thinking of working myself through it again. Years ago I found it extremely hard to get through ...
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That's why we're doing it as a group. I realize this book addresses a very large body of self-initiated work on the many levels of proficiency (right hand skills, left hand skills, ear skills, perceptual skills, conceptual skills, lexicon, diatonic melody, dominant melody, how to build proficiency through mastering recurring situations, etc) that aren't really directly covered or at least in an individual way. Originally Posted by mheton
It's my hope that by community support, a regular flow of helpful and essential ideas, and suggestions of things we might focus on or practice, that some of the more problematic issues can be revealed, skills sharpened and our own abilities not only broadened, but also brought into a light we hadn't been aware of before.
I can provide practical theory on a take it or leave it basis, (ex: pointing out how hearing sequences can give us a powerful technique we can employ the next time we're soloing in a jam, or even something as basic as the license to see one type of turnaround and choose a different route based on the options we can form 'a bag' of here.
I agree that in its published form, especially just putting the backing tracks down as written, were completely off-putting for me. I'm not shy about suggesting alternatives that worked for me. But I also saw the genius in using a well chosen set of standard forms as a backbone for integrating the myriad of skills we can hyper focus on, to learn to hear and play in time...and most importantly to think and feel time as a natural extension of our expressive selves.
So I do think doing this as a group can be a very different experience than wrestling the book on our own. I hope I can form a community that, for 20 weeks, learn together and tackle the breakthroughs that may have kept us from playing to our greater potential.
Your choice, but if we all put in an hour a day in focused tune based practice, it's gonna do something that watching YouTube videos and instruction books may have kept us from. Time on the instrument.
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Week 3, Day 3 (for me): I felt like quitting after yesterday. I felt at a loss most of the time, ended up just playing stupid-sounding scales. Today was much better for some reason. I think I am starting to "hear" the tune better. Also, I paid more attention to the little minor chord transitions between sections and just played elementary root-third-fifth-seventh arpeggios over those chords, which seemed to lead to better "flow", as well as diatonic accuracy, into the next section. Onward ...
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For the first day with the new tune, I just did free improv ala Chet Baker, meaning I wasn't thinking scales or arpeggios and was trying to play what I sung. It resulted in me not playing eighth notes as I find it difficult to match my singing when playing a steady stream of eighths.
That seems to be a big roadblock for me, being able to quickly transcribe what I'm singing to the instrument.
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I was going to post a suggestion that if anyone was having trouble hearing and finding the cadences and flow of the tune by ear, then perhaps do a ten minute run through with space. I know this goes against the rules but the end goal is to play boldly and steadily and implied in there is by ear. Originally Posted by charlieparker
Nobody will arrest you for that and sometimes the first number of the set is for finding your centre.
As far as singing, yeah great idea but an eighth note exercise like this has no place to breathe. You can do it of course but it takes practice to coordinate hands and voice. Keep at it. Be aware of what you're singing, and be aware of where those notes are on the fingerboard too.
I used the map this way myself. I'd create a line and having the visual of my note choices in front of me, I could imagine how my hands would move. Your hands will ALWAYS opt for safety, so they'll tend towards safe and habitual licks and movements. Note visualization can be the tool that breaks that hold your hands have over what you play.
Those 10 minute segments are a good time to take our an idea and really get command over them. Practice your initiative. Don't let the guitar play you.
Only time on the instrument will make any sense of what I'm saying. You'll get it!
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I'm getting nearer to the week's 84bmp goal, but I'm playing key centre patterns I've played a million times before, I've even created some lines for navigating the turnarounds. I need a better ear for navigation, I just keep repeating myself.
Still not very musical as yet, but I'm enjoying the challenge and I am improving. Thanks, the course is a very good training wheel.
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Basically the same. I looked at the sheet and saw D and Gb and noodled in those two keys over the song. I was up to 75 bpm today which is fast for me. It sounded a lot better on playback to my ear just at that slightly faster tempo. Also, I feel like my playing some random notes and if the note doesn't sound good walk chromatic to the next note. I am tempted to post an excerpt because to my ears it was my best playing so far until the C section where things fell apart but I feel a bit embarrassed as to the process. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
I'm getting nearer to the week's 84bmp goal, but I'm playing key centre patterns I've played a million times before, I've even created some lines for navigating the turnarounds. I need a better ear for navigation, I just keep repeating myself.
Still not very musical as yet, but I'm enjoying the challenge and I am improving. Thanks, the course is a very good training wheel.
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A couple of notes and comments.
I do this 20 week course every few years. It's markedly different from the fluid and rigourously but flexible way I normally use my practice time. Each time I do this, I get something different from it because I'm at a different place in my abilities. Each time I get into it, I say "I should have done this sooner".
I had a professor in a performance lab. He was the first person to assign weekly written solos on a given assigned song form. He'd require 1 chorus on the song. He'd collect them at the start of the class, then we'd play over the song, each person taking two choruses. We didn't use our written solos, but the way we played/improvised was subtly and profoundly changed by this process. By spending the time with the slower act of thinking, editing and planning the written solo, the idea of soloing changed from playing notes to executing thoughts. I never thought of soloing the same way again.
When you complete each 10 minute segment, think of something you wish you'd done or been able to do. Think of technical things (why don't I ever remember that I have 12 possible notes to begin each bar with?).
Think of conceptual things (why don't I change direction or shake myself up whenever I find myself in the "WHY DO I ALWAYS DO THIS BORING THING?" zone.
Think of positional things (I can find these same notes with the range 6 frets up...or with the root on the second string, should I make the jump to explore them, or should I stay where things are famiiar...and boring?)
Use your between time to set the groundwork for a more exciting and progressive 10 minutes ahead. THESE are the skills you'll find are life savers as you become a better soloist over time.
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When I'm teaching, I consider it important that certain aspects of improvisation become part of the eventual soup. It's not linear, but they do overlap and build on one another. I just thought I'd throw these out there, and perhaps one or another might provide some focal guideline when creating your own practice mindset of this material. Just for your consideration.
I am using these points in my thread and study of voice leading in the Almanac thread, so any reference to that is merely a holdover from there.
13 steps in progression to musical integration
Because the materials within the almanacs is so broad in scope and so far reaching in application, I thought it'd be useful from a teaching and learning perspective, to have some form of metric and guideline by which we can loosely gauge our musical abilities, that this might be helpful in addressing how any particular piece of information can be presented.
This is somewhat loosely progressive and not really linear, by which I mean, these are all things we work on collectively throughout our lives, but personalize through time and practice. I hope this helps.
1) Having some idea of purpose. Knowing why we are making the effort to learn something, no less something that demands time and concentration, and dedication to train our hands, ears, mind, is really important if you want to stay the course. Improvisational composition can be for fun, to find an engaging application for your abilities, or something through which you find a connection with life and the world. Establishing your level of commitment lets you follow through without disappointment.
2) Manual Dexterity. Kinesthetics. Teaching your hands to move confidently with control to get the best sound from right and left coordination.
3) Knowledge of aural patterns. Scales, intervals, chordal elements, all need to be internalized in a way that allows recognition and a visualization-in the abstract and on the fingerboard.
4) Hands, Sound and Time. Time feel and solidity in movement. One way to keep your thinking and moving with a beat is to practice with a metronome during some part of your routine. You need to be able to THINK in time to play true in time. Overcoming hesitation and taming the effects of indecision to work with time… really great asset in playing.
5) Manual dexterity and hearing/seeing in larger blocks. Once you can control the flow of play, and awareness of what you’re playing, the imagination combined with an aural memory allows us to work with larger blocks. We can make words into sentences. This is the art of the phrase. Phrases are the personalization of sound, and this level of playing will continue to define your artistry for life.
-SONG STRUCTURE AND DEVELOPING THE SHAPING FORCES-
6) Knowing where to go, why and using this knowledge to avoid chaos. This is sometimes called theory.
7) Aural shaping. This is the ability to make decisions that elevate one’s playing from reactionary reflexive hand initiated playing and into the realm of hearing the future. It’s a respect for sound and where it can take you. Building a lexicon of sound starts from here.
8) Syntax. There is an order that binds sound, and there are guidelines from which we respect conventions, break them and re-write them on our own terms. Syntax and how firmly and expansively we apply it allows strong growth from solid roots.
9) Ear Training. Knowing intervals, rhythmic space, pitch and harmonic chordal movement in a quantifiable way provides us not only with an instantaneous confidence of the moment but the solidity by which we move into the future. A solid ear must be carefully and very personally informed. It’s a non linear process and there’s never too early to begin hearing. It adds nuance with time and practice and it becomes more articulate in tandem with one’s ability to play.
Training your ear puts the language of sound in the driver’s seat.
10) Song Segments. Each aspect from the micro to the macro adds to the totality of effect and utility. Knowledge of silence forms the basis of knowledge of a sound. Knowledge of a note informs the interval. Knowledge of the interval leads to the phrase. Phrases become systems. Systems contribute to sections. Sections are part of Choruses. Choruses have distinct characters which make up a solo through multiple choruses.
And so on. Each step has considerations an informed player can find options to play with.
11) The Lexicon. Our bag of options. You make yours. You shape it and add to it for as long as you play. The longer you play the more you have to work with. They are the materials and tools of the craft.
They include Motif, Direction, Articulation, Dynamics. Space, Contrast, Texture, Cells, Consistency, Note choices that make phrases, licks, quotes, …
These are the stuff of seasoned players that allow them to create fresh, seemingly limitless, articulate and expressive solos. It’s your language and it’s always kept close to your creative process.
12) Semantic Content. This means after all the notes you CAN play, what are you actually saying? This is what makes a mature player.
13) Composition and Free Improvisations. Freedom and Order. Inspiration and Communication.
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Week 4. Baublish project 2-B in B flat.
This week it's something familiar and something new. It's the same harmonic structure as last week's project but in the key of Bb. There are also sections where there'll be D major and a visit to Gb Major.
Our given tempo goal is 96 for the quarter note but in reality, set your own, use your own chords for the backing track and make a list for technical goals that you can use as a guideline challenge if it ever veers towards feeling boring.
Here's a chordal outline of Baublish in Bb:
And the tonal key areas that will give you some idea when to shift your ear/hands
And in the connective tissue, the dominant chord segments made up of turnarounds, shifts by half step (tritone subs), shifts in a directions chromatically or by whole step (sequences).
Enjoy the journey, and don't forget the warm up and reflecting aspect of the exercise.
Have fun!
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Didn't get as much time in as I would have liked this week for a variety of reasons. However, I enjoyed the process this week the new tune. Honestly, felt good to just play over D and Gb for the A and B parts and sad passably good. Felt this tune was somewhat easier than the last tune.
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Week 4, Baubles in Bb at 96bpm seems refreshingly enjoyable after all the hardwork last week has been done.
Baubles was not a tune I'd played before, so I found Cherokee easier in Weeks 1+2.
Enjoying the challenge, whilst learning the notes on my latest 7 string.
Thanks for organising the material Jimmy Blue note.
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I'm really enjoying these projects this time around. Seems after the pandemic lockdown I see the guitar differently and this is a great way for me, personally, to bring a lot of things together into the real song realm.
Hey I have a question for anybody who's been following and playing along, players who are seasoned in respects to harmonic ideas, sure footed enough to be at that point where they're on the threshold of introducing substitutions and reharmonizations on the fly.
Now I'm going to say right now that this is a very different and specialized subset of what is intended by this book and I don't intend to change that path and trajectory, but if there are those who are looking for a vehicle for expanding harmonies, this format has worked well for me.
IF there's anyone in that category, I could, at some point in the future, add specific posts, "Challenge for the adventurious advancing guitarist" that could systematically apply specific devices of a more complex nature; things like harmonic substitutions, symmetrical scale use on dominant passages, tritone and more challenging secondary dominant approaches, voice leading harmonic superimposition (I run another thread on this topic at the other end of the pool, so to speak), and use Super Chops to show in theory and practice, how to use more advanced concepts on more traditional harmonies.
This would, essentially create two distinct approaches and communities within this thread.
This'd be a lot of work but fun for me. So I'd only consider this if we had enough interest from lurkers within this SuperChops group.
I'm loving the feedback from our group here, just wondering if there are any lurkers who are 'farther down the spectrum' so to speak.
Maybe it'd be a better thing to start a new thread completely.
Thoughts?
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I am not in that subset. Still stumbling through the written changes realizing I need to split my time 50/50 rhythm and lead for a few months. Too much single note work this last year.
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Yeah, I'm thinking it might be neater and more streamlined to start a new thread, and not introduce too many new whirlpools into this already rich and deep river. Originally Posted by AllanAllen
Just testing the waters. The players and guitarists who want to actually play are a precious contingent of this forum. It's nice to see everyone find their own place.
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Maybe I belong in the harmony subset? Being interested in songwriting I'm most interested in understanding and writing chord progressions (and melodies too). Perhaps your subset group would help with that. (BTW, I often start with a melody for my songwriting.)
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Here is the pdf you can download for lesson 2B. Box
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Oooo that's a whole thread/workshop/class/discussion/life's work unto itself. I've been working with some songwriters. Believe me. It's a cool world. It'd be a really useful thing to know where your ear is at and what your background is. Maybe we ought to PM to find out which doorway is best to enter this huge world through. Originally Posted by fep
You can get a good idea of the hierarchies of harmony through working with jazz standards but there some ways to develop your ear more directly if your goal is to find harmonies for lyrics.
Maybe I'll message you and offer some resources I'm active with at the moment.
Very cool.
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