The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by AllanAllen
    Thank you for posting this. I thought the A and B on the page meant it was an AABA progression instead of realizing it was chords for exercise 1A and 1B on the same page.
    Yes. I didn't play the entire structure, just worked on the A section first, a smaller chunk to get off the page, easier that way for me.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    I plan to participate but probably can’t do so for an hourly daily. I’ve done this program with JBN a few times—it’s always worthwhile, especially if you have the means to be disciplined and show up every day for at least an hour.

  4. #28
    So it looks like we've got a critical mass here.
    I'll post notes on each week's Project on the Sunday of each week. I'll start this Sunday. We can work on that week's piece and throw in thoughts as we go through the week.
    Each week, I'll choose some relevant aspect that might be helpful in getting to know the piece.
    A few notes as we start:
    I do encourage you to feel free to use your own chords but please keep them as basic as you can. It may be difficult to resist adding tensions or using hip chords you like, but when it comes to training your ear to hear changes and build your own tonal vocabulary with your own ear, having more than the minimum can actually impede hearing a neutral basis for soloing. Remember, we're building up our lexicon of melodic and harmonic ideas, not actually looking to box ourselves into our own cliches. Slowly and steady.

    I don't want to cut and paste the whole book so please reference the pdf or your copy of the book. There are EXCELLENT playing notes on positional playing and line construction. Do look them over and use them to guide your line crafting skills and explorations.

    I'll talk about tonal centres and basic turnarounds and how they fit together, how you'll see them as signposts to making the song form come alive in three dimensions.

    I'll put these together Sunday when we'll officially start week 1.
    Tell me if you're having trouble securing a .PDF

    Listen to Cherokee to get the general gist of the tune into your casual ear.
    Find all the Bb's on the guitar.

  5. #29

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    I haven’t got time to commit to this, but I looked through the pdf and I like his approach of playing continuous 8th notes on a tune, in fact it is something I have done from time to time. Anyway I sat down and tried it on Cherokee for a few minutes, and it was cool, it made me start finding new ideas etc. Occasionally I went wrong (suddenly running out of fingers or fretboard, or just where to take the line next) so it certainly made me try some different stuff just to keep going.

    I’m fairly competent at playing long lines, but I’m used to breaking them up with spaces etc. so keeping them continuous for so long is quite challenging.

    Then I tried the triplets and that was harder, I did gradually get better at them though.

    So definitely a practice approach I think I will start using more often, I can see how it generates new ideas, even though in actual playing I would not stick to continuous lines. (I am sure that is not the goal of the book anyway.)

    I found a good video by Mikko Hilden (who I think posts here) which gives a useful overview of the book, and some ideas about how to use it. He also plays one of Howard’s example solos from the book, which is interesting.


  6. #30

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    Hey David, I'm tempted to give this a try, but I'm a little intimidated by some of HR's chord voicings and I'm not sure I'll have an hour a day, 6 days a week, to devote. But I downloaded the pdf and printed the first 23 pages, so I guess I'm in for now LOL. Thanks for offering to orchestrate this project!

  7. #31
    Here're some optional visual aids that might be helpful:

    20 weeks to a higher level of proficiency: Howard Roberts Super Chops one more time.-screen-shot-2021-09-21-8-16-57-am-png20 weeks to a higher level of proficiency: Howard Roberts Super Chops one more time.-screen-shot-2023-02-26-4-58-23-pm-png20 weeks to a higher level of proficiency: Howard Roberts Super Chops one more time.-screen-shot-2023-02-26-4-59-03-pm-png20 weeks to a higher level of proficiency: Howard Roberts Super Chops one more time.-screen-shot-2023-02-26-4-59-31-pm-png

    These are STRICTLY my own ways of looking at things, they help me visualize things so I can get them into a three dimensional way of seeing, navigating and hearing the changes (contours) of this and any piece.
    If this doesn't work with the way you think and hear, then by all means don't use it.
    It's helpful for me.

    The project is in Bb. That makes Bb the I chord. Know the diatonic chords and where they reside. That's the map of the fingerboard in the first illustration.
    The diatonic chords are the "target stations" around which I centre my hand positions and my ear as I play the song. They're my signposts and knowledge of them and their locations allow me to be there and play comfortably and strongly. These are indicated in the second illustration. I've simplified the chords to what I feel are their more essential natures. This is also to make it easier to make a more neutral backing track.
    The role of dominants is crucial in creating movement from one "station" to another. There are many different dominant varieties and we meet several in this piece. Without getting too complicated, they can resolve directly up a 4th (in red), or they can resolve down a half step (in orange labeled tri sub), or they can resolve a whole step up (modal sub) which is in aqua though it doesn't actually find the tonic here), and it can exist independently with no or ambiguous resolution.

    Each of these paths to dominant 7 resolution is worth knowing like the back of your hand, because you'll meet them ALL the time and the more familiar with the sounds of them, the easier it is to be imaginative and anticipate your playing with confidence.

    Ask questions. Be patient. Proceed mindfully. Have fun!

  8. #32

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    Thanks David, I'm studying your two posts above.

    This course will be a challenge for me as I haven't practiced guitar for a few years. As far as music goes, I now identify more as a songwriter than a guitar player. Still, guitar playing is part of the process of recording my tunes.

    Coincidentally, I also wrote out the chords just to have something cleaner to look at as the Howard Roberts page is very messy and busy looking. I have the last chord as different though, I have it as a B6b5, not a Bb. I also took the liberty to change the B7#9 to a B7#5#9. Here is a link to a pdf (click the word "Box") and I'll attach an image too.

    Box
    Attached Images Attached Images 20 weeks to a higher level of proficiency: Howard Roberts Super Chops one more time.-superchops-lesson-1-chords-png 

  9. #33
    And we're off!
    The first week has started and I'm really excited to be doing this again.
    Please do help me make this a community endeavour and share your thoughts and observations, frustrations, triumphs and wisdom.

    When I was first learning to solo, it was unlike anything I'd ever done or knew how to do. Over the years, I've learned so much from great players, and what I learned has re-enforced some of the things books have told me, things teachers have told me, and some things I learned from conversations, hangs and playing with great players has gone completely against traditional methods of teaching. So the bottom line? The way you learn and the way you play is ultimately a very personal thing. It's which elements you choose and how you put them together that makes the most solid and confident soloist.
    I happen to believe that the ear is the greatest teacher, practice with actual song forms in real time is the way to train your ear, too much thinking, reading and following methods you may not believe in can, at that phase, come between you and learning to hear and guide your hands.
    That's why I like this program.

    Hearing structure is essential for me to know a piece and solo on it. I think of any piece as being made up of phrases, even if it's straight eight notes, it's phrases or 'thought episodes' that coincide with harmonic features. A phrase is like a sentence, and awareness of their distinctive character, how long you want to make it, where to best manifest it (best position on the fingerboard) and the elements of phrase (ex: direction, contour, character) all contribute to making the solo three dimensional, not just a bunch of chords to be made into single notes; phrase awareness makes your playing come alive.
    For me, the way to become aware comes down to time on the instrument. Do you want it? Do you have an hour a day for 20 weeks? Is it worth a try?
    Welcome aboard.

    Phrase spacing
    I see this exercise (remember, this is only MY take) in 2 measure phrases. That's the length of breath for me. The first piece is establishing and playing in the tonic key Bb. Bb and D- are essentially the same for me, so together they make a modal chunk I can play with for two bars.
    The next two bars have a different character, a distinctly dominant one for me. I hear them as one idea, a sort of II V7 idea. In all my years, what I can do with the II V7 space has changed a lot. The dominant tonalities more than anything for me, are the ways my own playing has changed the most. They're the phrases that hold compelling movement. They're the adjectives that work with what comes after. They're where the element of surprise can be very at home.

    Dominant phrases.
    There are a few ways dominant phrases come into play here in this piece. We'll meet them and use them forever.
    There's the diatonic II V7. That's the one that comes with the key. It'll provide a strong (not the only) way to bring you home to the I chord.
    There's the secondary dominant. That's the II V7 combination that doesn't 'belong' in the diatonic chords of Bb but they lead, instead to a diatonic chord within that key. We see that in bar 3-4 a secondary dominant going to the IV.
    There's the tritone sub. That's a dominant block that slides from a half step above a chord and resolves to it. This is a cool one. Learn to be friendly with it, you'll use it a lot.
    There's a modal sub. That's a dominant block that approaches a chord from a whole step below. It's a cool sound.
    Those are a few of the big ones and we meet them here in Project 1-A.

    Take it or leave it but go to it and have fun becoming a better player!

  10. #34

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    I like to voice the chords so that I can put the melody on top when I work on a tune. That way the melody also becomes a reference. Moreover this makes the intervallic relationship between the melody and chords more clear. Cherokee's melody notes are mostly chord tones so "melody on top" comp wouldn't clash with solos. I might post an example of comping in this style later if I find the time.

    Since the rhythm is continuous 8th notes, I think building phrases using four note cells (aka tetrachords) can be a good starting idea. A cell can be an arpeggio, triad with a scale note, enclosure pattern, scale pattern etc. Octave displacement and chromatic passing notes can always be used to make the lines more interesting. The book, "Joe Pass Guitar Style" has examples of 8th note solos build from four note cells. That could be a good source for anyone who wants to steal some cell ideas.

    I'll start with using 4 note arpeggios. I'll use two arpeggios per bar. If it's a major chord, I'll chose among I, iii and vi arpeggios. If it's a Dominant or subdominant, I'll choose among V7, vii-7b5, ii or IV arpeggios (the dominant family), so for G7 arpeggios are G7, Bmin7b5, Dmin7 or FMaj7. I'll also try to voice lead these for the most part. This is just a jumping off point for me. After doing this for a couple of choruses, my ears and fretboard references get better connected with the song form and I can start to build lines more freely. This just one approach I use. Your mileage may vary.

  11. #35

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    This is probably not a point to dwell too much on but the fifth chord (EbMaj) can be both seen as the IV chord or a key change. Howard Robert's analysis treats it as a key change, Jimmy's analysis treats it as a diatonic chord approached with a secondary dominant. Note that we are talking about only one note here (A or Ab). I think Jimmy's analysis is a simpler approach but there might be a caveat. If Eb is a IV chord than we the note is A (#IV). If it's a new key center it's Ab. The complication with the IV chord view is that the chords that precede and succeed Eb have Ab in them (Fmin Bb7 come before and Ab7 come after). So if you just treat it as the IV chord you may have a harder time nicely fitting the note A in that part of the progression. But that's where "use your ears" come in I suppose.
    Last edited by Tal_175; 02-27-2023 at 10:13 AM.

  12. #36
    Yeah Tal-175 exactly the point! You look at a chart, you learn the skills to own it. If you can learn to hear something besides chord symbols to 'run', then it's making music.
    So many ways to interpret a lead sheet, it's fun to look at how diversely they can be heard.

  13. #37

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    I'll give it a go, though, I'm definitely a novice.

  14. #38

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    1st day done!

    My main observations:

    - It takes a ton of discipline to stick to the consecutive 8th notes and not just have fun playing my "stuff".
    - I need to become more fluent over altered chords and learn to play the various devices over the entire neck for all keys
    - the descending Fm9 Em9 Ebm9 Dm9 is tricky for me. Seems best to play some repetitive arpeggio pattern descending with the chords.
    - I love the sound of Cm9 to B7#9. And this fits on the guitar really nice...

    Cm9 ----- x.3.1.3.3.x
    B7#9 ---- x.2.1.2.3.x
    Bbmaj7 - x.1.3.2.3.x
    or
    Cm9 ------ 8.x.8.8.8.10
    B7#5#9 - 7.x.7.8.8.10
    Bbmaj7 -- 6.x.7.7.6.5
    or
    Cm7 ----- 8.x.8.8.8.x
    B7#5 ---- 7.x.7.8.8.x
    Bbmaj7 - 6.x.7.7.6.x

  15. #39

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    What does modal from below mean?

  16. #40

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    One more observation:

    This is a pretty involved chord progression to start on, especially for those who are not familiar with constant consecutive 8th notes. I'm wondering why the book started with this chord progression.

  17. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    This is probably not a point to dwell too much on but the fifth chord (EbMaj) can be both seen as the IV chord or a key change. Howard Robert's analysis treats it as a key change, Jimmy's analysis treats it as a diatonic chord approached with a secondary dominant. Note that we are talking about only one note here (A or Ab). I think Jimmy's analysis is a simpler approach but there might be a caveat. If Eb is a IV chord than we the note is A (#IV). If it's a new key center it's Ab. The complication with the IV chord view is that the chords that precede and succeed Eb have Ab in them (Fmin Bb7 come before and Ab7 come after). So if you just treat it as the IV chord you may have a harder time nicely fitting the note A in that part of the progression. But that's where "use your ears" come in I suppose.
    IV to iv minor is a pretty common way to get back to the dominant. It's even in the song Home on the Range. C C7 F Fm C. I think of it as the Home on the Range progression, this song starts with the Home on the Range progression. Bb Bb7 Eb Ebm Bb, is embellished a bit to become Bbmaj7 Fm7-Bb7 Ebmaj7 Ebm7-Ab7 Bbmaj7

    Ebm Ab7 Bbmaj is also known as a "backdoor progression".

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    IV to iv minor is a pretty common way to get back to the dominant. It's even in the song Home on the Range. C C7 F Fm C. I think of it as the Home on the Range progression, this song starts with the Home on the Range progression. Bb Bb7 Eb Ebm Bb, is embellished a bit to become Bbmaj7 Fm7-Bb7 Ebmaj7 Ebm7-Ab7 Bbmaj7

    Ebm Ab7 Bbmaj is also known as a "backdoor progression".
    Yes, iv to back door dominant to I or iii is in a ton of tunes. It's one reasonable way to treat the harmony (and the one I would prefer). I'm just pointing out that it's a different approach than how Howard Roberts bracketed the progression in the book. The difference is how the note A is treated in those two bars as opposed to the bars before and after the Eb section. As I said, I don't think it's a point worth dwelling on but it might be something to consider for those who want to map out arpeggio or scale pattern based outlines initially to get their ears and fingers around the progression.

  19. #43

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    Here is the comping example (half notes or full notes) with melody on top (over the AA section). I can post my playing 8th note lines over it later when I get a chance.

  20. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tal_175
    Here is the comping example (half notes or full notes) with melody on top (over the AA section). I can post my playing 8th note lines over it later when I get a chance.
    I like how you did that without any crazy Howard Robert chord stretches.

  21. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    I like how you did that without any crazy Howard Robert chord stretches.
    Thanks. Melody sits nicely on B and E strings. I used just generic voicings with some simple subs (diminished and functional). It's amazing you far you can go with basic voicings for chord melody style. You can then texturize the right hand fingerpicking if you want to get fancy and add contrapuntal movements but for comping that would be too distracting.

  22. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by charlieparker
    What does modal from below mean?
    For now, I'll say one of the ways a target chord (any diatonic chord that you want to make an 'introduction' to) can be approached is from a dominant chord (some variation of Mixolydian) a whole step below. This chord approach can also be used in an extended form in something that looks like IV- bVII7 and I (target chord.)
    Maybe next week, I'll give a detailed inventory and discussion of dominant chords and some handy options, but for now there are new choices given in this piece, which makes it an ideal vehicle to learn about diatonic chords, ways to get to important chords and the challenge of shifting targets (bridge section).

    It was asked why this ostensibly complex piece was chosen as the first project.
    It's largely tonal so it gives your ear good things to focus on when you get to know the piece.
    As it's presented, which is different from the actual Cherokee, so it's not Cherokee we're doing but an etude based on the salient sounds of Cherokee, it's a challenge to hear all the diatonic 'islands' and the approaches to them, but working on it each day with chords (the reason why he wants you to put the backing track down yourself) you will acquire an ear and a feel for how actual interesting piece are constructed.
    It's not Blue Bossa, but it does have very identifiable tonalities and I do think it's a wise choice to start with because out of the challenge, emerges a solid strategy for hearing better and negotiating actual real life situations.
    It's not a beginner's exercise but it's a solid introduction to the vocabulary, lexicon and syntax that are the staples of just about all standards. And there are no slippery tricks designed to throw off the player.

    Keep in mind that this is a 20 week course. It's a learning curve, but it's one that will elegantly walk your way into the real multiple layers of actual playing. And doing it as a group really helps.

    I'll present strategies for studying in answer to questions or challenges you're feeling. As will all the seasoned players for those at the exciting threshold of study.

  23. #47

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    I made it through Day 1, David. One of my big difficulties is that I can understand most of what you and others are talking about theoretically, but cannot translate them instantaneously to the fingerboard, even at a slow tempo. So my tendency is to play mostly by ear. Which is OK some/most of the time IF I have "internalized" the tune. This progression, though familiar to many here, is not something I know well. I think I'll "hear" it better as the week goes on. But measures 11 and 12 both being a C dominant 7 seems odd to me. And the shift to a B major tonality at the start of the bridge is, to me, jarring, though it follows from the descending pattern of the second ending of the A section. Because I don't yet "hear" the tune, I end up playing what are basically variations (modes) of major scales, but it doesn't have any real flow. Maybe it'll feel better tomorrow :-)

  24. #48

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    P.S. And with my aging brain, I have to laugh when HR blithely states - "memorize the progression." This is another problem I have in general... maybe I just need to focus more clearly and put in the time. Maybe this project will help me with that.

  25. #49

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    Dumb question but what does "DC Repeat" mean?

  26. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Topper Roth
    P.S. And with my aging brain, I have to laugh when HR blithely states - "memorize the progression." This is another problem I have in general... maybe I just need to focus more clearly and put in the time. Maybe this project will help me with that.
    I hear you, I have memory issues also. Memory was never my strong suit, even when I was young. I think music does favor those with good memories. For example, I've always had a hard time remembering lyrics, and those that remember lyrics to hundreds of songs amaze me. I can't even remember lyrics to the songs I wrote myself.

    I can only remember the chords to lesson one by big chunks. Instead of individual chords, for the A section I'm thinking the "Home on the Range" chord progression followed by the unusual C7 then that typical iv ii V I turnaround. Unfortunately, I don't have much of a larger reference for the second ending so I have to memorize ii-V followed by the descending thing starting on Fm... resolving to the C#m to start the B section.

    Most of the B section is easy with that series of ii V I progressions, but the last one doesn't resolve like the previous ones, rather it does a ii V back to the I of the A section.

    So instead of remembering say 40 individual chord changes, I'm remembering maybe 7 mini-progressions. I also think it's easier to use my ear to remember this way. But 7 mini-progressions is still a lot. This is not like a standard Blues progression where it's pretty easy with experience to just use one's ear.
    Last edited by fep; 02-28-2023 at 01:46 AM.