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Loving my Eastman 7 string. I can't put it down. I've adapted some tunes that I do to the 7. It sounds great when I'm doing solo work and using chord voicings that use the low A string, especially with bossa nova tunes. I've been studying John Pizzarelli as close as I can for a few years (Youtube vids and seeing him in concert). John seems to very often use chord voicings that use the low A string, even when he's in a band with a bass player. Of course it sounds great.
I've recently embarked on a project with a bass player and found that I have to be very careful with that low A string, especially if she plays some chromatics as part of her bass line. Just looking for a little guidance on how to navigate this. Thank you for any input you have.
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10-27-2022 06:54 PM
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6 string players and pianists are careful about using the bass register for combo work to not muddy things up and let the bassist have that range. Same thing with 7 string. Comp in the middle of the range and go down in the bass purposefully if you choose to. Don't always be playing bass strings because they're part of the shape.
Last edited by Jimmy Smith; 10-28-2022 at 01:27 PM.
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If you tune to low A, the bass only has a few notes lower than you. If you play in that range, you risk making a low end rumble.
Most of the time, it's nice to have some separation between the bass note and the rest of the chord. It's relevant on 6 string guitar too because the bass often plays a higher note than the low E on the guitar. So, that would argue for avoiding your lower strings, which is what a lot of players do.
If you're going to play the bass strings, it has to be coordinated with the bassist.
For example, if the bassist solos way up the neck, you can play a bass line and chord stabs under it.
Or, the bassist takes the melody and you can play whatever you want as an accompaniment.
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Learn to play with your ears and create chord melody that uses the full range of your instrument, not grabs that sound and feel cool in the harmonic moment. I found that learning to play chord melody with only occasional voicings in the bass gave me a chord vocabulary that had a lot of content in upper and middle string registers, away from the bass heavy.
Of course if you're studying the Bucky school, that may not be your thing, but I use a low B and for me, I'm using that 7th as a melodic line in counterpoint, mostly when I'm up on the neck.
Chord melody on upper strings and listening carefully. Whether it's on 6 or 7 strings, it's what works for me. Develop an ear for inversions, rootless voicings, modal substitutions (like playing a II or VI- while the bass player is playing the root of the I, that provides nice tensions when used sparingly), and how are you on upper tension triads?
Just because you have 7 strings doesn't mean you have to sweep that low especially when you've got a bass down there already.
Develop rhythmic comping skills. It opens your ears up to listening, providing supports that work with a soloist and rhythm section rather than taking on the burden of being the entire rhythm section. Play less, say more.
Anyway, it's just a suggestion that is based on what works for me.
Just out of curiousity, I know you're into Bucky and probably Howard Alden(?), but are you into Bill Evans, especially in trio? Do you know, for instance, Autumn Leaves with his first trio? Scott LaFaro is on bass, Bill's got all that low end of the piano, and he's comping for sure, but listen to where and how.
Maybe that's not the way you want to play, but that's how he found the solution to your question.
Good luck. Have fun.
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EQ is also important, as is volume level
Ethan Iverson points out that historically pianists often played a lot of bass left hand, with Bill Evans being one of the most notable exceptions. McCoy Tyner is an obvious example of a player who did this, quite aside from the earlier swing and bop players. I notice that on older jazz recordings the piano is often quite low in the mix and tends to be quite mid rangy.
i think what makes these things work are 1) knowing when you are reinforcing the bass and working with it (for instance you both play rhythmically on the roots together which can make the music powerful, doubling pedals, or doubling a stock bassline.) 2) Eq’ing things so that the guitar doesn’t crowd out the bass; think mid range and 3) appropriate volume level.
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Ime Eastmans tend to get really woolly on stage. A boss EQ might be worth it’s weight in gold.
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Not surprised your enjoying your guitar. Eastman 7 string is one of the best 7 string guitars out here. Would have been nice to see a pic of your new addiction.
Originally Posted by Zigracer
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It is a special situation with guitar and piano in a duo setting which requires both players to adjust all of the time. Both cover such a broad sonic territory so you constantly have to be aware where everybody is active at any given moment. Some great examples "post-Bill Evans/Jim Hall" :
Pat Martino "We'll be together again" with Gil Goldstein
Jim Hall + George Shearing
Jim Hall + Michel Petrucciani
Pat Metheny + Brad Mehldau
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Bill usually stayed out of the way of the bassist pretty well. If you watch this autumn leaves solo transcription, he barely hits any notes that would be on the E string. This also has the bass line. Bass is written an octave up while piano is obviously concert. Guitar's open E string is the ledger line below the bass clef and the E string 12th fret E is the 2nd space down on the bass clef. Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
Last edited by Jimmy Smith; 10-29-2022 at 02:39 AM.
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It’s a shame you ask this now, because I saw Howard Alden only last week here in the UK, playing his 7-string in a trio with bass and alto sax. If I’d known I would have taken notes!
I may be wrong, but as far as I can recall his use of the 7th string was not so prominent during his solos (even though he played a lot of chordal stuff within his solos). He used it a lot more during the bass solos, in fact at times he played walking bass lines with it, allowing the bassist (Simon Woolf) to play solos high up the neck.
But to be honest these guys are such great players (the sax player was Geoff Simkins) that I think they just know how to play anything they want and somehow fit it together so that nobody steps on anybody’s toes. It was a great gig and Howard said he was enjoying it so much he didn’t want to stop playing!
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So advice to the OP, play like a 6 or 5 string player. Valid. Originally Posted by gitman
Don't forget Bill Frisell and Fred Hersch, where Bill's playing is SO far away from the rhythmic drive of the previous generations' precedent. As far as 7 strings, yeah just cuz you got the string there doesn't mean you must or even should play it.
I think your ears will be your best advisor.
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NGD - Meet Gumby (7 string) Originally Posted by softjazz
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Just read your other thread and the question of muting strings. As I recall, when Howard Alden played chords involving the 7th string, it looked like he switched to hybrid picking.
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Thank you all for the responses. I’ve been thinking of and doing many of the same things as many of you have suggested. I’m always interested to find out if someone is looking at something from an angle I overlooked before. I already use hybrid picking for certain things and fingerpicking for others, especially bossa.
Think I’m learning that have to play the same tune different ways, when going from solo, guitar duo, guitar and bass or other instruments. I guess I already knew this. It’s just that the full sound of chords voiced using the low A string is so damn intoxicating to me that I don’t want to give it up. The other thing that confuses me again, is watching John Pizzarelli fingering that 7th string so often. But then again, he may be using inversions that don’t have the root on the lowest string. I’ve got a lot to learn.
Keep ideas coming. This place is great.
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There are three other aspects of this issue that haven't yet been addressed. First is the simple, basic matter of tuning accuracy, precision, and consistency. Unless you and any / every other instrument playing the same note are perfectly in tune, there will be intermodulation between / among you that will muddy the note. This is especailly important in the bass range, where the frequencies are sufficiently low that even a 1 or 2 Hz difference is audible as a faint vibrato that blurs the pitch. Because of this, it's critical that all strings in the lowest registers be tuned precisely to the same standard pitch. And when you're playing close intervals against a bass, any pitch inaccuracy will turn harmony into discord.
Both your setup and how you play affect pitch accuracy, precision, and consistency. More pressure than is necessary to secure the string against the fret without buzzing will sharpen the note. The lower the frequency, the lower the string tension is under your fingertip and the more easily it is pushed above the desired pitch. Unless you have a very light and consistent touch, the accuracy of your low notes will benefit from higher string tension over lower frets and action.
The second issue is the need for all who are playing in the same register to listen very carefully to each other. Knowing each others' playing styles and being able to anticipate what's coming are essential for effective ensemble playing. Done atfully, a 2 or 3 note partial combines with a bass note to "become" one instrument. The bass player in my trio favors chromatic transitions, so I know he's likely to make a 1-4 change through the 5b. This makes it easier for me to voice open inversions because I know that if I anchor that transition with a 7b under a 3 / 6 (13th) diad, we'll resolve nicely together into a subdominant 7+6 or substitute with the bass playing the root.
And the third factor of importance is your tone. For decades, I thought I wanted and needed a bass amp with big drivers for "full, rich bass". This was totally wrong - I was simply wallowing in harmonic distortion and drowning any interplay as above. It wasn't until I started using smaller, more accurate amps and speakers that I understood how clearly the fundamentals need to be heard at the bottom. That "fat bass" I thought I loved was actually just flabby - it was almost all 2nd harmonic and above. The lowest notes on your guitar should have the same tone and character as every other note you play. Sadly, that's not the case through most amps set the way most players use them.
The first "little" amp that pushed me to reconsider all this was an SWR Baby Baby Blue about 30 years ago. I subsequently bought a Phil Jones Briefcase and then a Cub, which were even cleaner. And today I use a Blu 6 and a few Class D heads through Toobs, a RE 10 and a RevSound 8. The 7th string should sound like the rest - only lower. The cleaner the tone of all bass instruments (keys, bass, etc), the better they play together.
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