The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
  1. #1

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    I am working with some new scale fingerings that require some stretching. I have noticed that when I get to the sixth string I kind of have to raise my elbow away from my body and rotate my hand towards the sixth string to be able to make the stretch.

    I also noticed shoulder discomfort in the scapular after doing this and while doing it. Has anyone else experienced this or know of a way to avoid putting my shoulder in an uncomfortable position and still make the stretch?

    One solution would be to find an easier fingering, but looking for other ideas.

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  3. #2

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    Pain is no fun!
    I'd be curious about your position -- seated, standing, neck up or out, fretting hand/arm, etc. You "shouldn't" have that kind of pain, so again, I'd be curious about your body. [take a pic/vid and show us?]

  4. #3

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    I find that moving/rotating the arm will cause the whole geometry to change, and the rest of the body needs to be supple and adjust. When pain appears, it’s often because I’m tense somewhere and the adjustment can’t happen.


    For example, there is a new thing to learn, I’m looking at that part of the fretboard a bit too closely. Which puts tension in my neck, which in turn blocks the shoulder.


    Try standing up (or sit up straight) very relaxed. Close the eyes and do the difficult thing without looking. This allows total focus on what the body is doing. Find the most relaxed way.


    As for general scapula pain, there is a likelihood of issues in the long term, not just for guitarists but anyone who works sitting down. I need to go to the gym regularly and do lots of exercises for back and rear delts. At one point it got so bad that I couldn’t lift my arm. Worked with a physiotherapist for a while and today I have no issues as long as I workout regularly.

  5. #4

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    Do you stretch before you play?
    Are you playing in a low chair (like a sofa)? This will add to the pull on your lower back translated to ulnar compression in some cases.
    Are you wearing a strap? This can compress the nerve at your shoulder.

    You can find physical therapists to advise you. I got some good advice from Jules who is well versed in Alexander technique. The levels of awareness and the dangers of self damage are high in guitarists who play a lot.
    First rule: If you experience pain or discomfort, STOP what you're doing. Immediately.
    There's this tendency for players to soldier through, especially when you're learning something new. Easy to shut off the pain 'til it's too late.

    You lose much more practice time through an injury that can be prevented completely.

    Stretch and make a routine of arm, hand, shoulder and neck stretches a regular part of your practice routine and get a good chair that allows your legs (knees) to be at least level.

    My two cents. Good luck!

  6. #5

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    The bad news about shoulder issues is they seldom improve with time. I'm six weeks into recovery from shoulder resurfacing and rotator cuff repair. Over a period of ten years the pain got so bad I could only play for 15 minutes at a time. A good orthopedist can tell you what the source of your shoulder pain is. Hopefully, just posture or inflexibility. But if not, it will be good to know what condition your shoulder is in (MRI / X ray) and what your options are.

    Cincy

  7. #6

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    It sounds like an shoulder impingement syndrom. But I would recommend to ask your Doctor or a Physiotherapeut. I think there you might get a better reply than in a forum for guitar players (unless there is one of the a.m. occupational group in the member group)
    Get well soon!

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by charlieparker
    I am working with some new scale fingerings that require some stretching. I have noticed that when I get to the sixth string I kind of have to raise my elbow away from my body and rotate my hand towards the sixth string to be able to make the stretch.

    I also noticed shoulder discomfort in the scapular after doing this and while doing it. Has anyone else experienced this or know of a way to avoid putting my shoulder in an uncomfortable position and still make the stretch?

    One solution would be to find an easier fingering, but looking for other ideas.
    You may be not holding the guitar's neck out to your left far enough to avoid rotating the wrist angle as you play higher up the neck. If you let that happen, the elbow will shift out and up, the angle of the wrist will change from straight to bent, the hand will be restricted from getting the fingers up and over the frets, and the angle the fingers make to the frets will be their weakest mechanical advantage...

    Nobody really fully realizes correct form in their playing, but it may be helpful to check some things. The fingers are strongest and most protected when they are curled and make a near vertical approach to the finger board. We never fully realize that either, but getting the thumb behind the neck promotes this. You should not have to "hold" the neck; it should stay in place on its own; then the thumb and fingers may play without the mechanical distraction of having to additionally hold the neck in place. The result of not needing to do that is space between the palm and the neck, just thumb and finger contact.

    When playing low on the neck the wrist tends to adopt the correct straight orientation because the arm is extended out. Playing up the neck without compensation results in pushing the elbow out and up, an increasing rotation of the hand in two directions and a bending of the wrist angle, all of which weaken the hand and fingers' mechanics and increase exposure to injury. Look at your wrist angle when playing in first position, then look when playing up close to the 12th fret... notice the change in elbow position, wrist angle, hand rotation, and apparent finger strength, then push the guitar out to your left and feel the difference.

    Guitarists' hands and fingers tend to be pretty tough until they aren't... I've written here about hands and fingers but your pain is the shoulder... it may be just the first to complain of something that may eventually catch up to the hands and fingers. To be clear, I'm suggesting you position the guitar more like Jeff Beck and less like Johnny Cash... picking over your center line, head stock way out to your left...

    Shoulder Pain when stretching on the 6th string-jb-jpgShoulder Pain when stretching on the 6th string-jc-jpg

  9. #8

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    There's a lot of resources to explore for musicians that are struggling with pain issues. I have had a lot of problems, i even went trough rotator cuff surgery, had tendontis that lasted for over a year, and various other issues.

    Now i use daily exercises, long warmups before i even touch the guitar, and pay close attention to technique and posture. I have even starting using a Dynarette guitar cusion to get my guitar to a playing positions that makes correct posture easier.

    Often strengthening the right muscles will get rid of pain. There's a lot of small muscles that will stabilize the shoulder if they work correctly.

    Here's some of the things that has been useful to me:

    Timani method : a method for improving posture and movement for musicians.

    Timani



    Musicians maintainence : A physical therapist that specializes in helping musicians:

    A Dynamic Warm-up Specifically for Musicians - Musician's Maintenance

    Musician's Exercise Basics - Musician's Maintenance



    Musicstrong : Strength training for musicians

    https://musicstrong.com