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I agree with this. I think one could't disagree with it.
Originally Posted by Christian Miller
I guess it is more difficult to be interesting without playing chords/polyphony.
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03-28-2022 07:20 AM
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"Jazz Guitarist" can have many different meanings, studying by yourself, jamming with friends, playing gigs with a fixed group/prepared setlist, freelance gigs(playing tunes by ear/memory, transposing, reading original tunes etc) all rightfully share the label. What is ''essential'' can vary depending on one's goals and aspirations.
I recall a gig I got called for when I was freelancing in Chicago in the 90's. It was a well paying tuxedo gig with a society orchestra. They asked me if I could sing (no, but their bassist could, so not a dealbreaker) and play "the rock and roll. I assured them that I could play the standard rock repertoire (Johnny B Goode, Black Magic Woman, etc) , and I was hired . That's ALL they asked me about what I could play.
When I got there, I found out the gig was for me to wait around for the band to play most of it's set, come up at the end to take a couple rock solos, and then play solo chord-melody guitar while the band was on breaks. At least in that time and place, it was assumed that anyone calling themselves a 'jazz guitarist' could play a few hours of solo 'chord melody'.....
PK
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Solo saxophone, anyone? Originally Posted by Marinero
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Hi, M, Originally Posted by Mark Kleinhaut
I love Pearlman's playing but I wouldn't be there for that concert. Violin, as clarinet, is an orchestral instrument and it's beauty is how it interacts with other instruments. It was never intended as a "stand alone" instrument since it's essential beauty is enhanced in ensemble playing. However, there's no rule against playing violin or clarinet solo . . . but it is a matter of taste. And, saxophone . . . forget it! Well, we all have our quirks and that's mine.
Marinero
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How something is intended is totally irrelevant.
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I'll see your natural reverberations and raise you an Echoplex. Originally Posted by docsteve
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Many contra example is avalable, for example Kreisberg, Rosenwinkel, JVR and Peter Bernstein all inserting harmonic content into their heads and impro lines *so naturally* as a pianist, you did not even notice it, similarly as you not slways dedicate listening attention to the pianists left hand. Originally Posted by Litterick
Although it is not the classic chord melody, but in my perception it is even more, a further step to advance guitar playing moving from single note melody playing to provide rich harmonic content. It does not matter they do this as alone in the stage, or with an comping band.
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“Chord melody” to me is a subset of solo playing. I’m not really sure if we are talking about the specific genre of playing like Joe Pass, or generically playing solo jazz guitar. But I do believe “chord melody” is an essential tool for developing your chops playing solo guitar regardless of whether you want to play that specific style.
I’ve played guitar obsessively for forty years. I can probably count on my fingers the number of times I’ve had the luxury of playing in an ensemble. And I do consider it a luxury and privilege.
Thirty of those forty years I played classical guitar or accompanied myself on folk songs or blues tunes. Always solo. About ten years ago I began listening to more jazz. I really love both the sound and the challenge of playing jazz as a solo instrumentalist.
Has traditional “chord melody” been an essential step in learning solo jazz (ie like Bob Conti teaches)? For me, yes. Not even Conti expects you to play a four voice chord for every melody note in a performance, but it is a good exercise for for learning how to harmonize yourself on the fly. You start to see some useful patterns that offer good voice leading and help give you a framework that you can play a subset of triads and diads from. Ironically, it has allowed me to get away from playing cowboy chords while I sing and pentatonic licks when I don’t. It has also helped me to understand classical pieces better by seeing the “chord” under the melody (even if classical arrangers and composers weren’t thinking in terms of chords.)
So, yeah, if you play solo jazz “chord melody” is an essential skill. But it is a tool, like learning to run arpeggios, not an essential endpoint (unless you really love that sound).
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
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What was that Paganini doofus thinking? Did he not know the gods forbade solo violin? Originally Posted by Marinero
Last edited by John A.; 03-28-2022 at 01:53 PM.
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Right JohnA!
And that Bach dude! Unaccompanied Violin Sonatas!
Who’d he think he was, anyway?
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Another lowbrow response, J? . . . At least you're consistent. Originally Posted by John A.
Marinero
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Depends on the height of your brow I suppose (especially to the supercilious), but I don't mind the characterization. At least I'm not the one spouting nonsensical absolutes (relatively ...). Originally Posted by Marinero
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Well, J . . . congratulations! You've admirably mastered communal "Group Think" and I think it suits your nature and personality. How dare I have a differing opinion than the Herd. . . and actually express it on the Forum? You must live in a very closed world. . and I think it suits you quite well. Originally Posted by John A.
Marinero
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So you're entitled to an opinion, but those who find it ridiculous are not entitled to say so and are closed minded for thinking they can. Got it. Originally Posted by Marinero
Last edited by John A.; 03-28-2022 at 03:33 PM.
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In my experience playing solo jazz guitar, while it might be useful to have a large palette of chords upon which to draw, it's also very useful to be able to inject some fast runs into one's performance - so 'chord melody' still benefits a great deal from good single-note lines.
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Hi, J, Originally Posted by John A.
Apparently, you have a slow afternoon . . . sorry, but I never said others were not entitled to their opinions. I was responding to your personal attack implying that if Paganini(one of my favorite composers) wrote for solo violin, I would be required to enjoy the format. So, for the record: I enjoy solo piano and solo guitar. I do not enjoy monophonic music irrespective of the composer. The violin was never invented to be a strictly solo instrument without accompaniment. That doesn't mean that it can't be played in that format but rather that its role as a string instrument was to be played in orchestral and chamber ensembles. That's the norm. Simple. Look, John, you're one of a group who looks for any nuance of language to attack my posts. And, I'm o.k. with that posture but it's you that is guilty of pedantry, not me. And, for the record, despite these silly attacks, I will continue to share my personal beliefs in future conversations irrespective of the mandates of the Herd.
Marinero
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I have no idea what the hell this is, but calling it ‘chord melody’ seems a bit…. rude?
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Last edited by Litterick; 03-28-2022 at 04:31 PM.
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When I studied with Sid Margolis as a teen, he taught chords like this.
I think I learned cowboy chords from a Mel Bay or Belwin beginner book.
Then he wrote out some chord grids titled "Muted String Chords". These were muted A and high E. Major, 7th, minor, iirc. He circled the root.
My job was to memorize them in every key. I think by then I knew the fingerboard from having learned to read.
Then, he got me a copy of the Cardex fakebook. Don't Blame Me was the first tune we did. The first chord was C6, played as a muted string chord at the VII fret. The top note is the melody note, G.
The next note is Bb a minor third up. Sid had me play it as a big Bb6 barre chord at the VI fret.
Next up, an A melody note, played as another barre this time at the 5th, A7.
He wrote the chords out on a grid and circled the root. That was my first C6 chord and I had to learn the grip in every key.
Next was an Fm6 (That was back in the day when m7b5 or #11 was still in the future) played 4x356x to get an F melody note.
Thence to a G13 (which was my first introduction to a 13th chord. And so on thru the tune.
Next week, we did Moonglow. It started with the big barre G6 chord -- and I already knew that grip from Don't Blame Me. And, where the lyric goes "that led me straight to you", he put in some nice voice leading -- first time I heard a tritone sub.
Following week, I think it was Stars Fell on Alabama.
Anyway, I learned my basic chord grips from chord melody. Also, some nice chord movement ideas and the tunes themselves.
A few years later, Carl Barry showed me some of Chuck Wayne's system of four string chords. Top 4, middle 4, lower 4. So, for example, you'd start with G7 xx3433. Then flat the 3rd for Gm7. Flat the 7 for Gm6 and so on. Then move the whole thing up the neck to xx5767 and do it again. 12 keys, 4 positions. When possible finger them with a barre so that there's an unused finger which can grab other notes. The upshot of this is you can pretty much get any melody note on top of any chord. That's helpful for chord melody, obviously. It's also helpful for creating melodic comping patterns.
It was much later that I learned to treat each voice of a chord individually so that I could find my own paths through songs.
So, chord melody was foundational in my experience. My teachers knew their stuff. Sid gave me a great foundation in reading and harmony. Carl expanded on it.
But, there's always another way in music and the guitar.
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Greetings and felicitations oh grand and exalted 13th Letter. Have a nice day. Originally Posted by Marinero
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Pat Metheny's fingerstyle chord-melody rendition of Stella isn't so hot:
Pat Metheny playing "Stella by Starlight" - YouTube
... and yet his solo single-line playing is very colourful and imaginative in its harmonic scope:
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Pat Metheny is very good at what he does and so was Ed Bickert...
The more tools you're good with or the better you are with the tools you have......
RayLast edited by RayS; 03-29-2022 at 10:41 AM.
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Chord melody is how you fingerstyle. It is a jazz style where all or most of the melody notes are played as the top part of chords
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Lets see: Tal Farlow, Barney Kessel, Herb Ellis all pick pickers in chord melody not finger pickers. There are many others.
Guess you could say Wes too, using his thumb.
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We need a referee to provide the definition of chord melody. Otherwise, this thread will go the way of the others.
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