Plectrum Chops - Need Advice

[Christian Miller]

I think track 2 of Kate Bush’s 1982 album the Dreaming has some spider exercises in it.

[James W]

This guy's picking technique looks like sort of what I'm aiming for. Jostein Gulbrandsen.

[James W]

Bump this thread.

Seems I'm back to where I was last time I posted on this thread - trying to cop some thumb-finger motion + economy picking plectrum technique.

Only this time getting somewhere with it - working on my tremolo, which I find you have to be super relaxed to do reasonably fast - like semiquavers at 150.

[BreckerFan]

Bump this thread.

Seems I'm back to where I was last time I posted on this thread - trying to cop some thumb-finger motion + economy picking plectrum technique.

Only this time getting somewhere with it - working on my tremolo, which I find you have to be super relaxed to do reasonably fast - like semiquavers at 150.

Glad to hear you're making some progress with tremolo picking! Keep going with that. Having solid single string picking chops won't solve string changing, but it will remove one obstacle to working on it.

Trying to learn the complexities of picking technique all at once is like someone who has never played jazz trying to learn giant steps or 26-2 as their first standard. You have to try and figure out how to outline a 2-5-1, how to interconnect 2-5-1s in different keys, and how to do that at a fast tempo all at once. It's just too much.

It's will always be more effective to break things into component parts and work on them that way, isolating what's difficult, and then gradually combine elements and add complexity. If you can't pick a repeating pattern on a single string, you can't pick a scale across multiple strings. And if you can't consistently tremolo pick on a single string, you can't play the pattern.

[James W]

Glad to hear you're making some progress with tremolo picking! Keep going with that. Having solid single string picking chops won't solve string changing, but it will remove one obstacle to working on it.

Trying to learn the complexities of picking technique all at once is like someone who has never played jazz trying to learn giant steps or 26-2 as their first standard. You have to try and figure out how to outline a 2-5-1, how to interconnect 2-5-1s in different keys, and how to do that at a fast tempo all at once. It's just too much.

It's will always be more effective to break things into component parts and work on them that way, isolating what's difficult, and then gradually combine elements and add complexity. If you can't pick a repeating pattern on a single string, you can't pick a scale across multiple strings. And if you can't consistently tremolo pick on a single string, you can't play the pattern.

Thanks, yeah. I am still getting used to picking with thumb-finger motion, but already I appreciate the neatness and economy of it compared larger joints such as wrist or elbow - I'd've probably liked to develop wrist motion, but often when trying to speed that up, my elbow would try to get in on it. In any case, I already feel I can tremolo pick longer using the thumb-finger motion than when I try it with the wrist - although it's not yet as loud or as dynamic as I would get from the wrist, it does feel more efficient.

So anyway, it seems much of the work on technique I have ahead of me will be to translate or bridge the gap between the kind of efficient technique I use when I tremolo pick at reasonable tempos such as sixteenths at 160 and the technique I use to, say, play the melody of Donna Lee. When I tremolo pick (which there is a definite knack to) I feel I have to be very relaxed to get that smooth, easy feel that is comfortably on top of the metronome. This is different to playing Donna Lee where, while I still use a thumb-finger based technique, because of negotiating the string changes, indeed, because of the complexities of the fretting hand in itself (which as we know, will affect how the picking hand functions) already makes channelling that very relaxed efficient technique used for the tremolo much more difficult! So I'm still grappling with applying that tremolo to single-string lines, let alone DL - but of course, I can't limit myself to tremolo or single-string lines in a practice session, there are all those scale patterns, triads and four-part seventh chord arpeggios extracted from scale etc. to practice, not to mention applying all of that to tunes. But it definitely feels right to have adopted economy picking, it feels nicely intuitive.

[BreckerFan]

Yeah Donna Lee is pretty polar opposite from tremolo picking on a single string. Bebop heads in general are about as hard to pick as anything on guitar. I have a fingering that's as economy picking friendly as I can figure out but it still includes some tricky alternate string changes. Someone called it at a jam a few weeks back at about 280 and...not a chance I could play the head haha.

But yeah tremolo exercises are great to just develop right hand speed, relaxation, and control. You can add more complexity with 3nps single string patterns, and then take on string changes with small 2 string 3nps scale fragments (ie E 5 7 9 A 5 7 9 9 7 5 E 9 7 5, repeat). This kind of stuff is like guitar rudiments to me, just stuff to work on the mechanics. Then yeah apply it to scales, sequences, arpeggios, etc. But you always have to be thinking about how the mechanics are gonna work for what you're playing.

[James W]

Feeling really happy about how my picking technique is developing. I can improvise comfortably with eighth notes at 200 BPM now. I have to say, using the thumb-finger motion + using economy picking really works well for me - the motion feels easy and I can do it fast and using economy picking feels smooth and takes me away from the 'downstrokes for downbeats and upstrokes for upbeats' sort of conditioning, so I can control accents regardless of whether it's an upstroke or downstroke. And economy picking feels intuitive.

While many an educator would warn you that it makes sense to get good at alternate picking before trying economy picking, I have to say, I disagree...

[bluejaybill]

I looked over Troy’s lessons a few years back, but I can’t remember what this dreaded string skipping is?

And while we’re at it, what’s this thumb finger business?

lastly, I wouldn’t go to economy picking at the expense of totally leaving alternate picking behind. And if you have some classical chops, I would seriously look at hybrid picking. If I was young that’s what I’d be doing.

[James W]

I looked over Troy’s lessons a few years back, but I can’t remember what this dreaded string skipping is?

And while we’re at it, what’s this thumb finger business?

lastly, I wouldn’t go to economy picking at the expense of totally leaving alternate picking behind. And if you have some classical chops, I would seriously look at hybrid picking. If I was young that’s what I’d be doing.

When you say 'dreaded string skipping' I think you mean string hopping. A quick search on youtube should answer that question.

'Thumb finger' business is picking motion derived from moving the index finger and thumb, rather than the wrist, forearm or elbow (to name all the other possible motions used in plectrum picking).

I haven't left alternate picking totally behind. As everyone who has experimented with economy picking will know, in order to play intervals and seventh chord arpeggios etc. through scales you still have to be a good alternate picker. But economy picking comes into its own more - or can do - when playing/building lines.