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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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02-23-2021 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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I struggle with the idea of DWPS and economy picking. I can and do use it but I'm thinking it sure would be nice to use a Molly Tuttle type of technique where she escapes on both upstrokes and downstrokes.
I like this as a picking exercise (right hand of this piano excerpt only, first note on the 4th string 7th fret 3rd finger). Play on the 5th position for the A section and 4th position for the B section. Strict alternate picking so that measure one starts on a downstroke, measure two on an upstroke, every measure alternates that way. For me that is the only way I can get it uptempo. This would be so hard with DWPS and rest strokes.
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u-d u-d u-d u-d-d
u-d u-d u-d d-u-d
u-d u-d u-d u-d-d
d-d-u d-u-d u-d-d
And similarly for the other four bars.
Notice the double-down I did going from the end of the third line to beginning of the fourth, i.e. from the G to the F. Snuck in some gypsy. Could do alternate, but sometimes beginning with that down stroke just seems crisper somehow.
Seems fairly straightforward for DWPS. I guess the key is making sure to do the high/low string pairs with up/down.
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Oh I also wanted to comment, there is no *requirement* to do rest strokes with this style. Just depends on the situation and desired effect.
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Originally Posted by timmer
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Originally Posted by geese_com
Here I am playing one of Herb's 8-bar phrases over rhythm changes (the A section). I've known this line for some time, so I'm NOT playing it with any thought of which stroke I switch strings on or anything like that. It's taken pretty slow just so I can see what the heck I'm doing and maybe figure out what I need to do better.
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Originally Posted by JSanta
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by JSanta
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I'd just like to bring up the fact that pickslanting is now deprecated terminology within the system Troy uses for analysis.
There's a thread on his forum where he explains how he categorises things now: One-page explainer on playing scales with alternate picking — overview of what we know! - Playing Technique - The Cracking the Code Forum
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I like that Troy has evolved his ideas over time and as he learns more.
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As I understand it all DWPS are UPX players, but not all UPX players are DWPS players. Troy seems quite keen to clear up this confusion between DWPS/UPS as he actually answered one of my comments about in on his YouTube channel. Obviously his ideas are revision constantly, but a lot of his older ideas are in circulation among guitar players.
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Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun
It's just a question of putting the horse in front of the cart of the cart behind the horse in my humble opinion.
Old terminology:
If you use use one of these two tecniques (DWPS,UWPS) then at this point in time your pick is going to be buried or escape the strings. If it is buried then you're forced to use some sort of solution (Sweeping, Swiping, Hammer-on, Pull off).
You can combine these two and switch mid sequence (two-way pick slanting), but that can get awkward at times or you can choose a technique that never gets buried like cross-picking, but those come at a cost of lower maximum speed.
New terminology:
At this point in time you're going to perform an upstroke (or alternatively a downstroke). If you want to be able to change strings without any obstacles then you need to choose a technique that is UPX. Your possibilities are (insert UPS picking styles)
New vs. old
The strength of the new terminology is that it focuses on escaping the strings, but has the alternative solutions as secondary (sweeping, swiping, hammer-ons, pull-offs).
The old terminology was more practical or player based and thus ended up with the alternatives to string escaping on the center stage.
The only reason to prefer new terminology is that you don't risk getting the impression that you need to look yourself into a DWPS style or similar. Troy's Cracking the Code was 100% DWPS focused and had a lot of players going "FUCK I'm slanting my pick wrong .. I need to relearn everything!". Now the different techniques be it pickslant or what not are offered like a tasty buffet.
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True about the lingo change. And in my own efforts to use DWPS/USX/whatever, I quickly found myself backing off the intentional, aggressive forward lean of the pick. Mainly because I was having trouble avoiding muting the playing string with my middle finger.
So I'm using a close to neutral pick slant, close to what I've always used in the past, and find that clearing the strings on the upstrokes still works just great. On electric for sure. If I ever had to play more acoustic, I suppose I might want to dig in more.
We just need a catchier phrase to refer to this general technique.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
I agree that once can be a DWPS player without being an USX player. I like the USX motion. That seems most natural to me. I think it's what I was actually doing before---years ago---I tried to "fix" my picking! I did have bad habits but they had more to do with hand position (--I DID "string hop"---too much Keith Richards visual influence in my youth???) than with actually picking.
But I think DWPS is good for me too. It really cuts down on the wayward hand motions to which I long was prone.
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Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun
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You could always try to do all these options at once, a la Mark O’Connor ?
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by Shadow of the Sun
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by Lobomov
Does that help with descending triad figures?
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Originally Posted by christianm77
It was tongue in cheek, tho serious enough ... A swipe (not to be confused with a sweep) is just ignoring string hopping and picking right thru the string that is in the way. Some players will mute this strings (mainly the rock crowd like Michael Angelo Batio) and some don't give a f... (Acoustic players like late 70s Al Di Meola when he was playing with McLaughlin and Paco, but someone like Paul Gilbert will do it unmuted too )
4 min vid
24 min vid
Edit: I doubt that it is useful for descending triads in DWPS tho, but knowing that it exist is funLast edited by Lobomov; 02-27-2021 at 03:10 PM.
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