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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobomov
    Oh descending triads in DWPS ... That's challenging to say the least


    It was tongue in cheek, tho serious enough ... A swipe (not to be confused with a sweep) is just ignoring string hopping and picking right thru the string that is in the way. Some players will mute this strings (mainly the rock crowd like Michael Angelo Batio) and some don't give a f... (Acoustic players like late 70s Al Di Meola when he was playing with McLaughlin and Paco, but someone like Paul Gilbert will do it unmuted too )

    4 min vid


    24 min vid


    Edit: I doubt that it is useful for descending triads in DWPS tho, but knowing that it exist is fun
    Oh interesting. I think I actually do that then. That does give a bit more flexibility to gypsy style picking knowing I can start a new string on an upstroke if I need to.

    the problem with descending triads is the pick gets stuck on the downstroke. So you have to play UUD. (Could you do a swipe up? Maybe??)

    But then your hand is in an awkward position. A secondary movement or reduction in the pick slant can fix that. By doing this I’ve got better at sweeping upwards too, without losing the basic GJ pick stance.

    this will be important for the GJ version of Innner Urge
    Last edited by christianm77; 02-28-2021 at 10:58 AM.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    Jens Larsen had a YouTube video on how to play a descending line of downwards triad (rootless 7th chord) arpeggios; rather than playing in position, he stayed on the same three strings and shifted position down on each one. I seem to recall the fingering being labelled for D-U-U on each triad. That feels less awkward to me than U-U-D, but maybe I'm just not used to starting on upstrokes.
    Last edited by timmer; 03-01-2021 at 05:17 PM.

  4. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by timmer
    Jens Larsen had a YouTube video on how to play a descending line of downwards triad (rootless 7th chord) arpeggios; rather than playing in position, he stayed on the same three strings and shifted position down on each one. I seem to recall the fingering being labelled for D-U-U on each triad. That feels less awkward to me than U-U-D, but maybe I'm just not used to starting on upstrokes.
    i wouldn’t bother playing it in position either.

    the way I pick, that first downstroke would trap the pick under the string. Starting on the upstroke works better here and the pick can move. I think Jens’s right hand picking works completely differently to mine.

  5. #54

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    In a pressure playing situation, I might tend to slip into hybrid on something like that. But that's a whole other subject.

    If I have to pick it, I usually do the more downstroke-oriented D-U-D. Doing multiple upstrokes in a row feels like I'm playing with my left foot. Sure there's probably some hopping to get out of those downstrokes, but at least it ain't D-D-D.
    Last edited by timmer; 03-02-2021 at 02:56 AM.

  6. #55

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    I have never really considered DWPS as a technique and I have to say, having just tried it, I really like it. My alternate picking is pretty bad (generally on getting to the G string) so I have increased the amount of legato I use, really, against my better judgement.

    I have watched several Troy videos and I often struggle to find the message. There's an immense amount of burning at stupendous speeds yet I struggle to find anything after 15 minutes that I haven't heard in the first five. So, I think I haven't understood. I can do the technique quite easily if I try and concentrate - but I'm not sure I understand.

    If I were to play the F major (ascending) scale at position 1, three notes per string, I can play the whole thing using alternate DWPS, and it works out reasonably well, far better than vertical alternate picking.

    Moving from a downward (3rd) stroke to the next higher string is OK provided I don't 'plant' - the 'glide over' doesn't seem too much of an effort. But I'm having problems with pick slanting thinking doing changing.

    I can rotate over the next string to attack it with an DWPS upstroke OK, but its seems more in keeping with consistency to change to UWPS on the 3rd stroke. This seems to mean that the first note on the next string should also be played as UWPS before going back to DWPS.

    But... what seems to be easier is to combine 'efficiency' (glide?) picking with DWPS. On the third pick on a string just glide over to the next string and pick down.

    On the basis that everything has to be practised and learnt over time I guess I will make my decision, but can I ask you...

    - how do you play that 3 note per string scale using pick slanting? Do you change from one direction to the other? Use glide picking? What should I try?

    - how can I play 4 note scale fragments across the complete scale using pick slanting? (i.e. 1231, 2342, 3453 etc).

    I have read all that has been written by the way, and looked at the videos - but I'm starting from the beginning so feel a bit dim . For the moment, I am interested purely in trying to understand what could be a very useful technique and could do with some understanding of what you do.

    (I also finally - after about 10 minutes of listening and frowning - understood the rotation of the pick around the vertical axis to reduce impact surface size, increase string sliding for fast tremolo. My speed doubled, though it is hardly useful for what I do and has significant tonal aspects as has been discussed above.)

  7. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Hugo Gainly
    I have watched several Troy videos and I often struggle to find the message. There's an immense amount of burning at stupendous speeds yet I struggle to find anything after 15 minutes that I haven't heard in the first five. So, I think I haven't understood. I can do the technique quite easily if I try and concentrate - but I'm not sure I understand.
    A lot of the free-access Troy Grady videos are less about instruction and more about his journey towards how he figured things out when he was woodshedding as a teen. Since he was a metal player, he leans towards shred stuff a lot more than anything else.

    That said, his forum provides a wealth of information and he has other videos that are a lot more instructive/conceptual than highly edited backstory for his picking journey.

    As to your questions: the three note per string scales is one of the downsides of pickslanting/single escape style picking. You either have to engineer your lines so that you're playing even numbers of notes with hammer-ons and slides, economy pick if you're ascending, or start adding in other motions like rotating or using wrist extension so that the stroke isn't trapped between the strings - this is basically what the whole cracking the code thing is about. I'd suggest checking some of his more recent youtube videos, since he's updated his terminology and understanding a lot since he did the old videos.

  8. #57

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    Hugo, I'm not sure I've understood everything you're describing, but try just playing around with the Gypsy Jazz rule to begin every new string with a downstroke. Whether ascending or descending. That should give you a feel for it.

    Then you can modify it as you see fit. E.g. I do allow myself starting a string on an upstroke descending. So I tend to do economy picking ascending, alternate picking descending. Descending is definitely the problem direction.

    Another popular workaround is throwing in pull-offs while descending, to jerry-rig it so you go from an upstroke to a downstroke on the string change. (The upstroke being the free stroke, where your pick isn't buried.) I certainly use that as well, but am also comfortable with picking every note (if the tempo isn't too insane!).