The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #51

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    Just found this slow blues tune... was on my phone. Can't remember from where. I'm pretty sure I was just subbing.
    Around mm60. Nothing special, made sure not to take longer solo than bands leader.... and stay simple, but at the end, went to tritone sub chord, bass player caught it.

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  3. #52

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    Slow samba.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  4. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    Just found this slow blues tune... was on my phone. Can't remember from where. I'm pretty sure I was just subbing.
    Around mm60. Nothing special, made sure not to take longer solo than bands leader.... and stay simple, but at the end, went to tritone sub chord, bass player caught it.
    Nice. I never got to play with a mando player at that level, usually they are just starting jazz or only a couple years in coming from other styles.

  5. #54

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    Hey rp... cool tune... loved the 1st part... Maybe we'll get together again after the....

  6. #55

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    Thanks corpse... Tom's a world class or at least use to be world touring Bluegrass player... that bassist toured with the Like a Virgin Madonna tour... He's been playing jazz for 10 years or so. I got a chance to play with Mr Dawg years back... still hang with the band sometimes. Matt the crazy flutist or Flautist and family are lifelong friends.
    Just to be clear... the tune and performance... isn't much besides being SLOW

  7. #56
    I am really loving all of these new videos, reg! Please post many as you can . Love seeing them. There's one in particular which was online a few years ago which seems to have disappeared, not one that you posted yourself. It was a video of large ensemble with horns with your organist you sometimes play with, Larkin tune. Anyway, I thought it was really cool because it was a pretty good size group with multiple horns etc. , but featured the guitarist as one of the only couple of solos I think. Love to see reg in the wild.

  8. #57
    To the original OP - the idea of swinging versus just going doubletime at really slow tempos - I think it's an interesting conversation. I think there are multiple layers for talking about it.

    Is everyone in the group somewhat limiting to swing eights? (Very often the drummer is somewhat subdividing more.) If it's not doubletime, is it naturally going to default more to 12/8? At the very least, I think most real players are going to at least default to HEARING more 12/8. Probably going to be implied in the slurs, grace notes , releases etc. etc.

    I have found personally that the more subdivision I hear internally, the fatter and crisper upper levels are. The unintended consequence of working more on double time slow feels and slow 12/8 blues is that my quarter notes and eight notes at ALL tempos sound better and swing harder. I think it's mostly the releases. Releases , grace notes , slides and all those other articulations are basically heard subconsciously until you've done some of the work yourself. Negative space is berry difficult to hear otherwise.

    There are also degrees to which individual members of great ensembles are doing certain levels of this all at the same time. I listen to lot of the same recordings of Keith Jarrett trio on a weekly basis. (I'll confess to this being my default nap music, but it really helps with analyzing something over months and especially years). Anyway, one thing they do really well is playing doubletime over the entire form very slowly on ballads. At the beginning of the tune, it's mostly 100% masked, with subtle hints in microscopic phrasing in places. It's mostly just implied by the fact that it's straight 8ths , but even THOSE are disguised by an abundance of quarter and 8th-note-triplet subdivisions.

    Anyway, usually begins with the drummer somewhat pushing at the ends of phrases and the other two giving in or pushing off by keeping things more subdued . Then, a second chorus maybe the drummer is more explicitly playing double time, while the keyboard and bass are still basically disguising and laying back on a more straightahead slow-four. There are degrees to which these are done more at the end of phrases only, compared to later where everyone's just locking into the same feel.

    Sometimes, they finish out the tune with everyone locked in, full ahead doubletime feel. Other times there's an arc of going back to the feel from the beginning, closing out with the intro feel. Anyway, my point is that all of those multiple layers, across the form, between players etc. etc., are also possible with a 12/8 /swing feel. there may be an important distinction between what is "heard" versus what is explicitly played.

    I wonder if great players are ever "not hearing" smaller subdivisions, regardless of what feel they're playing on top explicitly?

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg
    Hey rp... cool tune... loved the 1st part... Maybe we'll get together again after the....
    Looking forward to that!

    That tune is by Aecio Flavio, a Brazilian. His most famous tune is probably this one:

    Leny Andrade

    Some Bay Area folks.

    As far as I know, he's not super well-known, but he wrote some good tunes.

  10. #59

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    Tom can play!

    His solos speak for themselves. Melodic, rhythmic and you can feel them.

    I'll add that he has great time feel on everything he plays. Worth paying attention to the way he comps.

  11. #60

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    If you are thinking about locking into the upbeat, you are not, as Miles said, "swinging." "Swinging" is about the soul you put into your playing and how that is interpreted in the sound. It isn't just about how when you strike an eighth-note and when you release that note (if you are, for example playing an eighth-note for exactly an eighth note, you are not "swinging").

    Listen to almost any NON-pro jazz guitarist on YT, then listen to a pro and you will hear the difference. They play all of the same notes in one measure, but it sounds better.

  12. #61

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    People get the path confused with the destination.

    Look just go and talk to drummer and ask what they practice. Guitar players often come out with stuff like the last post, which is all true but utterly unhelpful.

    Professionals sound professional because they sweat the details.

  13. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Duffy Pratt
    Was gonna post this. How slow you can swing and how slow Basie can swing are two different questions. But of slow tunes, nothing swings harder than this. It’s like magic.
    A little trivia:

    The story goes that Neil Hefti, who wrote Lil' Darling and the arrangement of it, originally intended it to be played medium swing. On a rehearsal, Marshall Royal was working through the arrangement with the band as per Hefti's intentions while Basie was sitting relaxed and absentminded in a corner, preoccupied with the latest copy of some horse race magazine. After a long time he got up, clapped his hands and said: "I don't know, maybe we should try this as a ballad". And Lil' Darling as we know it was born. But perhaps, after all, this story is just - well, a story.

  14. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    To the original OP - the idea of swinging versus just going doubletime at really slow tempos - I think it's an interesting conversation. I think there are multiple layers for talking about it.

    Is everyone in the group somewhat limiting to swing eights? (Very often the drummer is somewhat subdividing more.) If it's not doubletime, is it naturally going to default more to 12/8? At the very least, I think most real players are going to at least default to HEARING more 12/8. Probably going to be implied in the slurs, grace notes , releases etc. etc.
    The conversation has ventured away from what I was trying to get at, but that's fine. For me, originally, it was an exercise to see if my swing feel "held up" at slow tempos (how exact is it? How much does it fluctuate?). It was a challenge to myself. I wanted to see what was happening. I'm talking like 50 and under, not any kind of performance tempos. Try to take it to 30. If subdividing helps, that's cool. I don't know how to subdivide in a way to get the feel I like. I'm not trying to learn how to swing, I'm trying to look into what I'm doing when I swing.

    I think 6 on ballads. But it doesn't have to do with this really. Although we can talk about it here, it's just not that interesting to me. It's ok, I'm laid back.

    What I do is play my stock bebop phrases, the one's I've been playing forever and could play in my sleep. Strings of 8th notes and a few triplets. It sounds ridiculous. Looking back, a fine approach would just be to slow down a recording of yourself at a normal tempo. It might not sound as great as you think.

  15. #64

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    People like ballads because they get to play fast

  16. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    People like ballads because they get to play fast
    That's cool to talk about too, but you guys do understand I wasn't trying to talk about playing ballads right? But, definitely talk about whatever, I just am not quite sure anyone is quite getting it. Also could be possible the OP wasn't interesting and we've moved onto stuff that's more interesting for the group.

  17. #66

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    Hey Rp... thanks, yea met Mary through Terrence few years back... and then Marcos from way back. Yea all friends, Scotty, Erik

    Who was on gig... the tempo thing LOL

    Don't know Horta... but dig his playing, more of a pop thing... but then what is Brazilian.

  18. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by corpse
    That's cool to talk about too, but you guys do understand I wasn't trying to talk about playing ballads right? But, definitely talk about whatever, I just am not quite sure anyone is quite getting it. Also could be possible the OP wasn't interesting and we've moved onto stuff that's more interesting for the group.
    As I say, single time improv at 60-80bpm is a Tristano school thing. Dave Cliff roasted me on Moment's Notice at 60bpm.

    It's fun to record slow and speed it up. I'm going to do that now.

  19. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    As I say, single time improv at 60-80bpm is a Tristano school thing.
    I didn't know about Tristano, but that is what I did that worked really well for me years ago. So recently I was wondering about taking it further... like 30 bpm.

  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by christianm77
    People get the path confused with the destination.

    Look just go and talk to drummer and ask what they practice. Guitar players often come out with stuff like the last post, which is all true but utterly unhelpful.

    Professionals sound professional because they sweat the details.
    My post is very helpful as long as it doesn't offend you.

  21. #70

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    Had a slow go at "Alone Together" this week (I think this is 62bpm?)

    I don't play a lot of straight 8ths. In general, I don't.

    Gonna try some slower stuff. This is fun.


  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hugo Gainly
    I remember seeing the drummer Martin Drew in London (in a pub called The Bull's Head) demonstrating the most stupendous in the pocket swing groove at 50bpm (I checked it as he was playing). This was in the 70s and it has stayed with me since then. He was eventually hired by Oscar Peterson.
    I frequently used to find myself watching Martin Drew (& not the name American star I'd gone to see) when he was Ronnie Scott's house drummer...

    Great talent..

  23. #72

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    I see 'slow', like beauty, is beginning to be in the eye of the beholder... I think the OP said, what, 50 or something?

    But I'll say it again - personally I wouldn't try to swing at a very, very slow pace, it's a contradiction in terms unless you double (or quadruple) up on the time.

    Dum.........de.........dum.........de.........dum. ........de......... I mean, it's not moosicle, is it?

  24. #73

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    Alone, six feet apart


    Quite right, blues can be done very slow.

  25. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by ragman1
    I see 'slow', like beauty, is beginning to be in the eye of the beholder... I think the OP said, what, 50 or something?

    But I'll say it again - personally I wouldn't try to swing at a very, very slow pace, it's a contradiction in terms unless you double (or quadruple) up on the time.

    Dum.........de.........dum.........de.........dum. ........de......... I mean, it's not moosicle, is it?
    I'll leave it alone after this but:
    1. I'm not talking about performance tempos. Or approaching ballads.
    2. Dum de dum de dum de dum doesn't sound good at any tempo. It also wouldn't be a challenge to play even at the slowest tempo because you are locking in each note.

  26. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by corpse
    1. I'm not talking about performance tempos.
    But you keep saying 50 and, several times more recently, 30. No question about it.

    I'm obviously missing something.