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At 0:16 also repeats at round 0:22 and several times more later. You'll know what I'm talking about when you hear it. I heard other jazz players do it. Sort of horn like effect. I don't have my guitar with me to experiment. Do you just slide your finger as you tremolo pick?
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09-25-2019 02:48 PM
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Cool recording! Yes, to my ears it sounds like some kind of combination between sliding and tremolo picking. Sometimes I even think he’s sliding up and then down again a few steps in the same phrase, especially around 0:16. Maybe I’m wrong, but to me that ”backwards effect” is pretty cool in this context.
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No, it’s a chromatic hammer-on triplet ascending, then pull-off chromatic triplet descending. I do them quite often, it’s a standard bebop lick.
So pluck a note fretted with first finger LH, then hammer-on successively with fingers 2, 3, 4 going up the fretboard chromatically. Then pull off with the 4th finger and come back down the same way, i.e. pull off with fingers 3, 2, 1 successively.
I’ve probably done it in one of my own videos somewhere.
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I did it here at 2:27.
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Make sense. That was my first guess also but it sounded like he was going up higher than a minor 3rd, that's why I thought it involved some sliding. Now I listened to it again, he is approaching that phrase by going up scalar/arpeggio and then ending the phrase with chromatic 4 finger hammer on and pull offs like you said. Approaching that with an ascending line and blending smoothly makes it sound like that legato part going a longer pitch distance. Cool.
Originally Posted by grahambop
Last edited by Tal_175; 09-25-2019 at 10:25 PM.
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Yes I think that’s the best way to use it, on the end of a line or in the middle of a line. I must have pinched it from Charlie Parker, I’m pretty sure he used this phrase quite a lot.
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Yeah, totally sounds like bebop horn. Originally Posted by grahambop
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I think grahambop is right. It’s a chromatic hammer on and pull off technique in this case. But I’ve used the ”backwards sliding effect” several times before with approved results soundwise. The secret is to find a solid tremolo picking technique. I think there isn’t any perfect way to achieve this effect. Hammer ons, pull offs, sliding and tremolo picking may probably all work well. Maybe in combination
?
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I do hammer hammer slide with ring, pull pull slide with index.
The first guitar player I heard use something similar was Jerry Garcia, in my teens (before I listened to jazz)
His was usually just the descending part. Pretty sure he stole it from Django.
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I learned how to play Bird lines by listening to Bud Powell play Charlie Parker songs which he had slowed down quite a bit from Charlie Parker's versions and I was able to record them on a reel-to-reel and slow to half speed.
Nowadays they have Loopers that can do that for you, but back in the day (early 70's) it was reel-to-reel, and I was fortunate that my dad had a monster stereo that he purchased in Hong Kong when he was stationed overseas.
I have forgotten most of that stuff but it was foundational for my understanding of Bebop.
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By the way, cool playing in the video Originally Posted by grahambop
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I read in an interview once that Garcia described himself as having big ears, and he was totally into Coltrane and probably Parker too. I listen to the Grateful Dead to this day and when Jerry takes off on a lead I recognize some of those influences.
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Thank you! Originally Posted by Bbmaj7#5#9
By the way, cool playing in the video.
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Yea... great playin grahnam, love it. Yea you can play lick a number of ways.... but Bruce actually slides single fingers... check out some of his old live performances... I've bumped into him many time.... have always dug his soloing. I generally play like you... but pick all the notes, almost grace them, but in time.
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It sounds like he's just hammering on and off . It's a classic Parker line - Parker tongues or articulates the second triplet of the phrase - the accuracy of his articulation is phenomenal . You can do it on guitar though perhaps not at this tempo .
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Thanks Reg, most appreciated! Yes I basically alternate pick but with some left hand hammer-ons/pull-offs incorporated, just seemed a natural way for me to articulate things. Originally Posted by Reg
By the way here’s Bruce showing some bebop devices, he shows a similar slur in this clip.
https://www.mymusicmasterclass.com/p...-bruce-forman/
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In those particular moments I hear it as if he juts slides with one finger ...
pulloffs and hammer ons are also there but in the other moments
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Yea... Bruce could really burn back in the 80's and 90's. He could play whatever he felt like. Thanks for the new lesson post graham... Bruce is getting old... still great player, but not like the old days with Richie and his trio gigs. I was also performing in SF bay area in 70's and 80's... was fun time. When Bruce joined Richie Cole's band late 70's I had just move to LA after grad. from Berklee. Wouild still bump into him... Richie... was Richie, but still was great for Bruce's exposure. Still dig his back in the saddle thing now.
This is just general picking discussion point.... and not directed towards anyone on this forum, but watch some old live BF vids... there aren't many on this forum that can get close to covering technique at his tempos. I have good technique... but was always amazed at Bruce's chops, his technical skills on his instrument. And generally he would be checking out something else while performing. Which is another skill I always try and get guitarist to do... quit staring at the fretboard.
Sorry to go in off direction... but Bruce's sliding was cool technique at changing position. Think how you we as GUITARIST change positions... jump from position licks to different position licks, most just jump or move... which leads to the starring at the fretboard thing.... yes another discussion.
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but Bruce's sliding was cool technique at changing position
It is a great and important point
an experience from other area - classical and lute playing - mistake that many amateur players do is that they whe they have shifts when they have to slide through several frets they cannot hit the right fret, oh they do it but insecure... mostly becasue they are not used to play in position... this is also definitely a key to blind-orientation.
If you can play in postion you shif your hane easily smoothly and precisely...
I also noticed that players with big hands and long fingers have often more problems with that becasue they try to stretch out always and also have naturally big grip around the neck...
Just a couple of days ago I played a duo at home with my friend who comes to town occasionally - and it was exactly the case... I told him play in position you wont miss the fret... he acknowledged that but still kept playing the same way...
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It's funny, because from a biomechanics POV Bruce's right hand technique looks horribly tense and inefficient. I can't watch it.
Manifestly it's not, but I'm so used to picking in a certain way, and seeing players who minimise that kind of locking up of the forearm, that watching Bruce makes me feel tense.
So I shut my eyes, and there's no problem.
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Well, heck, compared to Pat Metheny, Bruce looks like he can play. Originally Posted by christianm77
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Haha, oh my god, Metheny. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Mind you, from the sublime to the ridiculous, I look at my own left hand and go 'what the fuck is that flappy fiasco?' I can't watch myself play. It sounds a little better with the visuals off.
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I'm lucky, I look how I sound. No surprises
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By the way here is some classic Bruce Forman stuff when he was with Richie Cole.
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I believe that I've heard Joe Pass do that same thing many, many times. Perhaps a tad slower, but also perhaps with more noticeable effect..
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