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  1. #51

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    I went ahead and did pattern 79. Per Matt's suggestion I just started this by doing the "speaking CAGED" the C form.

    I did eighth notes instead of triplets. This results in a cool sounding rhythm displacement. Tempo 110 which is the equivilaent of triplets at a tempo of 73 (if I did the math right in my head). Getting this to triplets at 112 bpm, yikes, not sure that's doable for me.


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  3. #52
    Here's my take on pattern 78:


    Not perfect, but the wife was ready to go...

    I'm on to #79. It's time.

  4. #53

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    Here's number 76, no metronome. I need a break from these. Not because the patterns are so hard but becuase I was using a different fingering and it seems to be more trouble than it's worth. At least right now. Maybe when I come back to it after a break I'll marvel that it ever seemed a challenge. (Fingers crossed)

    On to triads! I went through material like this with Carol Kaye, who uses the term "chordal scale." Her system (such is it is) is built around chords, not scales, and triads (followed by seventh chords) are the foundation.

    Do they start with December?


  5. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    Do they start with December?
    No. We somewhat dropped the schedule a few weeks back, as in no one was really paying any attention to it. My original concern was that without a schedule, the entire group motivation would drop off, but people have done a pretty good job of moving at their own pace. I tried to get everyone back together for a certain point in the book a few weeks ago and it didn't really take. :-)

    It might be cool for all of us to try and hit the dominant patterns together in January. Maybe the triads are a good place to camp out until then. I'd say that, in terms of the number of posts etc, the "September" thread may be a good spot for everything leading up to that. I edited post #1 of this thread a few weeks ago to reflect the more free posting structure which had already taken hold. :-)

  6. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    It might be cool for all of us to try and hit the dominant patterns together in January. Maybe the triads are a good place to camp out until then. I'd say that, in terms of the number of posts etc, the "September" thread may be a good spot for everything leading up to that. I edited post #1 of this thread a few weeks ago to reflect the more free posting structure which had already taken hold. :-)
    Sounds good to me. I'm getting married next month, so it's been a little crazy around here lately, and will be even crazier next month.

    As for the triads, I'm reviewing the material I have from Carol Kaye on "the chordal scale". (F Gm Am Bb C7 Dm Emb5 F). She doesn't teach scales much, so she doesn't relate ANYTHING to scale fingerings. She's not big on thinking in terms of positions. Her mantra is "think chordally." And that starts with triads. ;o)

  7. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    Sounds good to me. I'm getting married next month, so it's been a little crazy around here lately, and will be even crazier next month.

    As for the triads, I'm reviewing the material I have from Carol Kaye on "the chordal scale". (F Gm Am Bb C7 Dm Emb5 F). She doesn't teach scales much, so she doesn't relate ANYTHING to scale fingerings. She's not big on thinking in terms of positions. Her mantra is "think chordally." And that starts with triads. ;o)
    Congrats Mark, and best wishes.

  8. #57

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    Concratulations, Mark!

    77 at 130bpm. Not my best effort. Really looking forward to progressing to the next part of the book ...


  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    I went ahead and did pattern 79. Per Matt's suggestion I just started this by doing the "speaking CAGED" the C form.
    That’s a mad beat, yo!

  10. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by ErikWasser
    Concratulations, Mark!

    77 at 130bpm. Not my best effort. Really looking forward to progressing to the next part of the book ...

    Hey. Nice. You threw some descending variations in there as well. By the way, your videos always remind me I need to work on my posture. Ha! :-)

  11. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    I did eighth notes instead of triplets. This results in a cool sounding rhythm displacement.
    I dig those too.

  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    Hey. Nice. You threw some descending variations in there as well. By the way, your videos always remind me I need to work on my posture. Ha! :-)
    I’m a proper hunchback. A new office chair and the Kiesel has helped a lot though. Problem is of course that I can’t bring the chair around, so I try not to get to comfortable in it. If I have to do something standing I look like a big letter C (and a chiropractor’s nightmare!).

  13. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    Here are updated fingerings which are more like a straight 1-octave "Triad scales" for each position (except for one). I talked about this somewhat in the above video. I think I will probably practice and post these using this standard. Please let me know of typos.
    I'm revising again. For Pattern 1A, I'm basically just making it an octave displacement pattern . My starting point is second finger, fourth string root. Play the first three triads up, and then the fourth scale degree is down an octave.

    By the time we get to four-note chords, most of these will be octave-displacement patterns for me anyway. At some point in my life, I may learn these as multiposition patterns which are straight up and down, but I'm limiting things for simplicity at this point.

    I also have kinda ditched my idea of learning all of these patterns in a single position and then doing the same for the next etc. I find that my brain and left-hand don't really appreciate this approach, but I can certainly post them the other way.

    I'll try to update with the video on this, not that anyone else needs or wants to see it necessarily. It's mostly for my four-years-ago-self.

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    I'm revising again. For Pattern 1A, I'm basically just making it an octave displacement pattern . My starting point is second finger, fourth string root. Play the first three triads up, and then the fourth scale degree is down an octave.
    These terms, 1A and the others from your charts, that's from Leavitt, right?

    Leon White has names based on the string and finger (-2E would be starting w the second finger on the low E; 4A would be starting with the pinky--fourth finger--on the A string.)

    I am temporarily (at least) moving away from that. I'm going minimalist. Which is no critique of what you're doing. I'm extremely impressed with what you're doing! You have improved a lot over the past few years. But I'm going a less-positional, more diagonal way. More chord-reference, less scale-reference.

    At least for now!

  15. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    I also have kinda ditched my idea of learning all of these patterns in a single position and then doing the same for the next etc. I find that my brain and left-hand don't really appreciate this approach, but I can certainly post them the other way.
    I think I'm settling on two approaches:

    1. Don't memorize. Horizontal, Vertical, diagonal, up and down... all over the neck. I think this will be my most common approach and is practical for developing fretboard knowledge for improvisation. This approach also is involving my ear. With this approach I can just keep going keeping it sort of random, i.e no pre conceived plan. Can I keep going and keep my focus for 5 minutes? 10 minutes? 15 minutes? That's what I'm trying to do. Or better yet can I get to where it just starts to happen without having to think so much?

    2. Memorize and play like an etude. This is good for technique and developing speed. For me, especially right hand technique... economy picking, cross picking, downward and upward slant, are all things for me to focus on with this approach.

    With that said,

    65 & 66 has been a roadblock for me so I'm just posting where it is at. I used my approach 1 for this. (this would be about 10 times easier if I would have gone for approach 2)

    And where are the 6ths intervals? Those are the ones I like the most.


  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep
    I think I'm settling on two approaches:

    1. Don't memorize. Horizontal, Vertical, diagonal, up and down... all over the neck. I think this will be my most common approach and is practical for developing fretboard knowledge for improvisation. This approach also is involving my ear. With this approach I can just keep going keeping it sort of random, i.e no pre conceived plan. Can I keep going and keep my focus for 5 minutes? 10 minutes? 15 minutes? That's what I'm trying to do. Or better yet can I get to where it just starts to happen without having to think so much?

    2. Memorize and play like an etude. This is good for technique and developing speed. For me, especially right hand technique... economy picking, cross picking, downward and upward slant, are all things for me to focus on with this approach.

    With that said,

    65 & 66 has been a roadblock for me so I'm just posting where it is at. I used my approach 1 for this. (this would be about 10 times easier if I would have gone for approach 2)

    And where are the 6ths intervals? Those are the ones I like the most.
    I like how you are thinking about them, I’ve tried doing something similar to your approach number 2, and then trying approach number one (on some of the patterns at least).

    Nice Bright Size. Did he not base some of those tunes on exercises he wrote?

  17. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by ErikWasser
    I like how you are thinking about them, I’ve tried doing something similar to your approach number 2, and then trying approach number one (on some of the patterns at least).

    Nice Bright Size. Did he not base some of those tunes on exercises he wrote?
    That Bright Size quote is from long ago memory, probable got it wrong. Thought of it because it was based on 5ths like the Coker exercise. Metheny did write tunes that were based on exercises, not sure about this particular one. I wonder if he went through the Coker book.

  18. #67
    I consider these mostly a progress report. These are basically the best of many, many unsuccessful attempts at recording clean versions. That's after basically feeling like I was getting them together pretty well, although I did take a week off from everything last week.

    I hope to post better, updated versions of these later. Right now, I'm pretty decent technically on these patterns within individual fingering patterns, but I can't cycle as easily through different keys in position, the way I have with other patterns, at this point. I'm going to move on to 81 and 82 while I continue to work on these.

    The first Sunday in January I will be aiming to post first of the dominant patterns , 83 I think? Aiming for that date regardless of how perfected 79 through 82 are.



  19. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    I consider these mostly a progress report. These are basically the best of many, many unsuccessful attempts at recording clean versions. That's after basically feeling like I was getting them together pretty well, although I did take a week off from everything last week.


    The first Sunday in January I will be aiming to post first of the dominant patterns , 83 I think? Aiming for that date regardless of how perfected 79 through 82 are.
    Good work, Matt!
    I've got to get back on this horse and ride. I set the book aside for a week or so and switched to Carol Kaye's book on sightreading. It has "chordal scale" exercises too, so I have worked on those (though mainly up one and down the next).

    Hope to have a Tele by January. Looking forward to it.
    Getting married in TWO DAYS. Disregard any goofy sh*t I might say before the middle of next week. ;o)

  20. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
    Good work, Matt!
    I've got to get back on this horse and ride. I set the book aside for a week or so and switched to Carol Kaye's book on sightreading. It has "chordal scale" exercises too, so I have worked on those (though mainly up one and down the next).

    Hope to have a Tele by January. Looking forward to it.
    Getting married in TWO DAYS. Disregard any goofy sh*t I might say before the middle of next week. ;o)
    Ha. will do.

    Congrats again, Mark !

  21. #70
    Speaking of study groups , how's everyone doing on this one? Also, how does everyone feel about jumping in together with the new schedule the beginning of January with the dominant patterns ? I think it's pattern 83? I'd have to look . But basically back to much easier pace in the beginning.

    That's my personal goal anyway: Begin dominant in January.

    I'll post a schedule before and start a new thread, but it probably won't be monthly for now. More organic.

    Anyway, let me know whether you're in for "dominant in January". Also, if anyone is newTo the group were thinking about it, it's a perfectly suitable place to begin without having posted previous material IMO.

    Thanks all.

  22. #71
    Regarding my first question above, I will just say that I found 79 through 82 to be VERY technically involved on guitar. Going into it, I felt like I was probably three weeks ahead or more on practice , from my Barry Harris practice. That said, it's still been a lot of work just to get to where I am now. I was concerned a couple of months ago about the section being a sticking point , and I feel more so now. I hope others are not discouraged by this part.

    Honestly, I think it would be cool to post updates, even if you're only playing in a couple of positions or something. I certainly wouldn't concern myself with playing in all keys etc. as much as the other patterns.

    I think these particular patterns (79-82)are going to be pretty important long-term technical work for me, but I'm not going to stop and get completely bogged down in perfecting them now.

  23. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    Speaking of study groups , how's everyone doing on this one? Also, how does everyone feel about jumping in together with the new schedule the beginning of January with the dominant patterns ? I think it's pattern 83? I'd have to look . But basically back to much easier pace in the beginning.

    That's my personal goal anyway: Begin dominant in January.
    I'm all for a dominant January, Matt.
    The group has been good for me. I've found and addressed some weaknesses in my playing and also had to make decisions about how best (for me) to approach things. It was work I needed to do.

    Starting a new year this way may draw in a few new members, or get some who have been inactive back in action.

  24. #73

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    Haven’t looked pass the triads. I’m all for a regroup in January.

  25. #74

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    79-83

  26. #75

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    I'm hanging in there. Haven't posted in a while but I do some "chordal scale" stuff every day. The hardest for me are the ones where you play from the 7th down to the root of each successive chord. The easiest for are the 'up one and down the next'.

    For most things, one position (at least) is pretty easy and at least one another is "uh-oh, I have to think about this." Just doing it every day makes it easier. I think it's good that we took a break. It would have been a bad idea for me to race past this material. I needed the extra time to get it under my fingers. Another week should work wonders.

  27. #76

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    This will probably be what I'll be using in PFJ (and Garrison Fewell) videos for awhile. It's new and I'm excited about it. Takes some getting used to, as the video demonstrates, but in a good way. May have to get my Mustang amp out of storage to do more with this than the Roland Mobile Cube battery powered amp allows. (Though that's a nice little amp for the money, esp when space and portability are at a premium.)


  28. #77
    I started a 2020 patterns for jazz thread. (
    My part, snidely referred to by someone as "practicing on the Internet" or something. Ha. I deserved it I guess, trolling a troll...)

    Anyway, that was EXACTLY the premise, 100%, from the original thread onward. So, okay.

    I won't be doing separate monthly posts for this, barring a big traffic increase. I'll try to include a type of thread index in the first post when I get a chance. My thread index thread got eaten by some kind of forum default which probably deletes threads with fewer than X number of posts and no response after a certain amount of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    This study group is based on the book, Patterns for Jazz by Jerry Coker, Jimmy Casale, Gary Campbell and Jerry Greene.

    Post a video of any or all of the weekly patterns, by Sunday each week, following this schedule:

    Jan 5: patterns 87-90
    Jan 12: patterns 91-93
    Jan 19: patterns 94-96
    Jan 26: patterns 97-98

    State the BPM if you like. Please state whether you would like comments on your playing.

    Also, please feel free to continue to post in these threads if you're newly finding them or otherwise want to participate after the deadlines.

    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk


    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

  29. #78

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher
    I started a 2020 patterns for jazz thread. (
    Thanks, Matt. I think this is a great group and I have high hopes for its future. It is a long-term project, so maybe a pause like this December is a good thing. Maybe we'll have a summer recess too. ;o) Working through this whole book--and really doing the work--is a big commitment and it takes time and energy. I don't think many of us are geared to do that, as the old song says, "Day In, Day Out."