Reply to Thread Bookmark Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Posts 1 to 50 of 71
  1. #1
    This study group is based on the book, Patterns for Jazz by Jerry Coker, Jimmy Casale, Gary Campbell and Jerry Greene.

    Post a video of any or all of the weekly patterns, by Sunday each week, following this schedule:

    August 4 - Week 22: patterns 56-57
    August 11- Week 23: patterns 58-59
    August 18 - Week 24: patterns 60-62
    August 25- Week 25: patterns 63-64

    Please, state the BPM you're using, which pattern(s) you're posting, and additional info re backing (Drum Genius style #'s etc). Please state whether you would like comments on your playing.

    Find previous threads for this study group here:
    Patterns for Jazz Thread Index

    Also, please feel free to continue to post in these threads if you're newly finding them or otherwise want to participate after the deadlines.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2

    User Info Menu



    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  4. #3

    User Info Menu

    Good job starting us of, Mark!

    56 at 155 Deadline version (a bit to fast, but it’s getting there) Comments welcome.
    Instagram: @eriksguitarpicks

  5. #4

    User Info Menu

    57 at 155bpm (edit: I’ve messed up the numbering, the first one in the last post is 57 and this belongs in 56, or maybe I’m just confused)

    Last edited by ErikWasser; 08-05-2019 at 05:51 PM.
    Instagram: @eriksguitarpicks

  6. #5
    Still can't believe it's August.

    Pattern 57 @ 112bpm in cycles of half steps, whole steps and minor thirds:


    Pattern 56 at 208 bpm:


    Comments appreciated.

  7. #6
    It's been years since my public radio- listening days, but pattern 58 is the theme to one of those shows. Cracks me up every time I play it. It's either morning edition or all things considered, at least it used to be.

    5 8 6 4 2 5 3 1

    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

  8. #7

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Comments appreciated.


    What's with the reverse image video? I've seen other players post vids that way too. Is this a thing I should know about?

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by FwLineberry View Post
    What's with the reverse image video? I've seen other players post vids that way too. Is this a thing I should know about?

    .
    No. Not a thing. Just a new phone that does it that way. There's probably a setting I need tho change.

  10. #9

    User Info Menu

    Just jumping in here without viewing any previous iterations of this project...

    What are you doing? :-)

    There's no chord sequence, so is this just a diatonic pattern that you might employ over a given major chord? I suppose if it is over, say, C Major, you could use it modally over any diatonic chord in C?

    Obviously it would sound really boring to use that pattern for a whole solo, so you must be trying to memorise and absorb dozens of different patterns, no? Doing it to the point where you don't have to think about it, your fingers just automatically lock in to the pattern. And then there's chromatic alteration to bring in, for more extended or altered chords. It seems a lot of work! I wish I had the discipline to do it, but know in advance that I wouldn't, but I wish you all well! Keep it up!

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop View Post
    Doing it to the point where you don't have to think about it, your fingers just automatically lock in to the pattern.
    This is in the ballpark of the premise which is laid out in the forward of the book.

    The patterns are separated by chord type. So, yes, all major at this point. Somewhat limiting, but also simplifying and clarifying.

    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

  12. #11

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop View Post

    What are you doing?

    I wish you all well! Keep it up!
    Thanks!

    We are approaching the end of these type of diatonic patterns (at least for now) in the book and heading into different intervals within the diatonic scale. After that’s done the book focuses on patterns that involve “non chordal tones”, as they are called in the book, for a while.

    So far most of the exercises sound, well boring, but the book seems to build up in a pedagogical way, and at the least it’s good picking exercise. If you can get it, feel free to join as sometime in the next couple of weeks would be a great place to “jump in”!
    Instagram: @eriksguitarpicks

  13. #12

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop View Post
    Just jumping in here without viewing any previous iterations of this project...
    This may give you a sense of what the book offers jazz musicians.

    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  14. #13

    User Info Menu

    Thanks, Marc. Training for ear and fingers. Very good.

  15. #14

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    This may give you a sense of what the book offers jazz musicians.

    Thanks for posting that. I had seen it before, but it reminded me that my original purpose for working through this stuff was to better visualize keys and chord roots on the inside strings in the middle of the neck. Unfortunately, it's all too easy on the guitar to just memorize shapes and move them around the fingerboard instead of paying attention to which notes are involved. In that respect, I think this sort of work is probably better suited to horn players and other less visually oriented instruments than it is for guitar players.

    So, for me, it's back to 60 bpm and naming the roots as I go through the drills.

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by FwLineberry View Post
    . I had seen it before, but it reminded me that my original purpose for working through this stuff was to better visualize keys and chord roots on the inside strings in the middle of the neck. Unfortunately, it's all too easy on the guitar to just memorize shapes and move them around the fingerboard instead of paying attention to which notes are involved. In that respect,
    Very similar for me. It's really tried to focus on my second finger reference position throughout.



    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

  17. #16
    Wow. Just tried #59 at the 160 max bpm. Yikes. That one is seriously fast for Matt.

    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

  18. #17

    User Info Menu

    Messing around with 58.
    Instagram: @eriksguitarpicks

  19. #18

    User Info Menu

    I forgot this pattern was written in quarter notes and played it in 8ths. This is the most challenging pattern to me (so far.)

    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  20. #19

    User Info Menu

    60. Getting it out of the way, since I need more time with number 59.

    Don’t know about you guys but for me this one was much harder descending then ascending.

    Instagram: @eriksguitarpicks

  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by ErikWasser View Post
    60. Getting it out of the way, since I need more time with number 59.

    Don’t know about you guys but for me this one was much harder descending then ascending.

    Nice work. And yes, absolutely. Descending is much more difficult. I always thought it was because we used always practice these by "flipping" them on the way down, but more than that, it's also an interval thing. On the way up, the last note and first note of a given pair of sequences are one step apart, while on the way down, it's a fourth I think?

    You definitely take the prize for most creative camera angles on everything. Found myselfsaying to my wife"here, look at this"on the last one.Anyway, this one has tolook higher up than it actually is, right?

    I like your strategy of going headand posting 60, while continuing to workon 59. Not a bad idea. I may do similar. I've had companyand I'm slacking this week. I think tonight I may just pick a tempo I can kind of do on 59 and post. Maybe update it with improved versions in weeks upcoming....

    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

  22. #21
    Really really rough first version of 59. almost more like a practice take.



    I actually recorded some takes of this slower, but it didn't seem to work much better. Ha. I will keep plugging away at this one and see if I can tighten it up a little bit. I think this was around 156 BPM or something. it was the max tempo on one of the more medium drum genius loops.

    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

  23. #22

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    . On the way up, the last note and first note of a given pair of sequences are one step apart, while on the way down, it's a fourth I think?

    You definitely take the prize for most creative camera angles on everything. Found myselfsaying to my wife"here, look at this"on the last one.Anyway, this one has tolook higher up than it actually is, right?

    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
    Thanks for feedback and good job on 59, give it a day or two and that one is going to sound great. I’m going to spend some more time with it this weekend.

    Yeah, the fourths. The f***ing fourths.

    You are right about the angle, this GoPro camera adds more depth than necessary. It’s a cool toy, but was a bad investment as a tool for recording playing music.
    Instagram: @eriksguitarpicks

  24. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ErikWasser View Post
    Thanks for feedback and good job on 59, give it a day or two and that one is going to sound great. I’m going to spend some more time with it this weekend.

    Yeah, the fourths. The f***ing fourths.

    You are right about the angle, this GoPro camera adds more depth than necessary. It’s a cool toy, but was a bad investment as a tool for recording playing music.
    Well it looks cool anyway. You'll have to just take up kayaking or something as well. :-) A couple of videos back, you did one that looked to be directly overhead. How did you get that one?

    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

  25. #24

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Well it looks cool anyway. You'll have to just take up kayaking or something as well. :-) A couple of videos back, you did one that looked to be directly overhead. How did you get that one?

    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk
    used the birds eye view from the top shelf
    Attached Images Attached Images Patterns for Jazz Study Group - August 2019-c253fac0-eac3-48fd-b07c-d2093b81f36c-jpg 
    Instagram: @eriksguitarpicks

  26. #25

    User Info Menu

    59. 150bpm (140 the last one)

    Rather rough takes, but I’ve lost my patience with this “theme”

    Instagram: @eriksguitarpicks

  27. #26

    User Info Menu

    I just discovered this thread. I’ve owned PfJ since approx. 1975, but never made any headway. Watching/listening to the videos, it makes a lot more sense. So, I’m going to give it a another shot.

    Any advice about getting started would be welcome!

  28. #27

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Bach5G View Post
    I just discovered this thread. I’ve owned PfJ since approx. 1975, but never made any headway. Watching/listening to the videos, it makes a lot more sense. So, I’m going to give it a another shot.

    Any advice about getting started would be welcome!
    This is a perfect place to jump in with pattern 60, and you are very welcome! You can always work on the previous patterns on your own or through the former threads (Matt, who is the boss, made a good summery thread somewhere). Everyone goes at it at their own pace anyway (which is great!).
    Instagram: @eriksguitarpicks

  29. #28

    User Info Menu

    Is there a link to backing tracks? IReal Pro perhaps?

  30. #29

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by Bach5G View Post
    Is there a link to backing tracks? IReal Pro perhaps?
    I've been making my own as I go in Ireal and BIAB.

    If you dig around this thread over at the Ireal forum, you can find a few different posts

    Jazz Practice Exercises - Page 22

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  31. #30

    User Info Menu

    Perfect. Thank you.

  32. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Bach5G View Post
    Is there a link to backing tracks? IReal Pro perhaps?
    I've used the drum genius app on my phone for all of mine.

    Sent from my SM-A505U using Tapatalk

  33. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Bach5G View Post
    I just discovered this thread. I’ve owned PfJ since approx. 1975, but never made any headway. Watching/listening to the videos, it makes a lot more sense. So, I’m going to give it a another shot.

    Any advice about getting started would be welcome!
    Feel free to post in any of the threads. There's a thread index linked in post #1 of each thread.

  34. #33

    User Info Menu

    Patterns 56-57 combined - all variations - 8th notes at 120 bpm


    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  35. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by FwLineberry View Post
    Patterns 56-57 combined - all variations - 8th notes at 120 bpm


    All very musical, Forrest. Great production values and playing as always. Thanks so much for posting this.

  36. #35
    It's interesting 61–62 have lower tempos marked than 60 , but I think on guitar these two may actually be easier.

  37. #36

    User Info Menu

    61 (about 120bpm)



    edit: wrong numbering
    Last edited by ErikWasser; 08-21-2019 at 09:17 AM.
    Instagram: @eriksguitarpicks

  38. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by ErikWasser View Post
    62 (about 120bpm)

    Wow. Very cool and different . Multiple positions , two octaves etc. thanks for posting this.

  39. #38
    Pattern 61 at 150bpm:


    Pattern 60 rough, no click:

  40. #39

    User Info Menu

    I planned to play each pattern twice, first with the root on the A string (3rd fret, C) and second with the root on the G string (5th fret, C). I did okay, I guess, until the second go at the second pattern. So I tried again and again and again. I think it's nearly 90 seconds in all.

    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  41. #40
    Ok. It's interesting again to me that the variations on these 4ths patterns and 5ths patterns are actually EASIER to me than the original version. This must be a very guitar- specific thing, because, again, the tempo markings are actually lower on these variations. They end up laying out more like variations of 1235 type patterns to my ears/fingers. Anyone else have thoughts on these? Pretty quiet lately... :-)

    We're a couple of weeks away from chromatic lower neighbor tone approaches, real "Jazz 101 -type stuff.

  42. #41

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Ok. It's interesting again to me that the variations on these 4ths patterns and 5ths patterns are actually EASIER to me than the original version. This must be a very guitar- specific thing, because, again, the tempo markings are actually lower on these variations. They end up laying out more like variations of 1235 type patterns to my ears/fingers. Anyone else have thoughts on these? Pretty quiet lately... :-)

    We're a couple of weeks away from chromatic lower neighbor tone approaches, real "Jazz 101 -type stuff.

    If I had to guess, I'd say it's a combination of a coupe factors. Descending 4ths are awkward on the guitar, but on a horn they're just a different fingering. It takes more effort to calculate the interval than it does to play it. I'm betting most horn players who approach this material have probably already messed around with 3rds at least in familiar keys. So the slower tempos would reflect that the other intervals are likely less familiar to the player and a little more taxing on the brain trying to keep track of where you're supposed to be going next.

    It will be interesting when I get good enough on the clarinet to make use of this material.

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  43. #42

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Pattern 61 at 150bpm:
    Thumb. Hey, Matt, the way you have your thumb in this video is something I'm working on lately. Usually when I grip the pick this way, my thumb is parallel to the strings. (This leads--for many--to the "underhand" approach where one tends to pull down with with pick. I've done that a lot but, in the end, it does not work for me. It works like gangbusters for others.) But I have my thumb pointing down---as you do here---it works better. For me. But it's far from second nature, so I have to concentrate on it and check for maintaining that poistion.

    I think it shall prove to be a big deal for me. Hope so! My picking has sucked for longer than any single human being's picking should have to suck. ;o)
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  44. #43

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Ok. It's interesting again to me that the variations on these 4ths patterns and 5ths patterns are actually EASIER to me than the original version. This must be a very guitar- specific thing, because, again, the tempo markings are actually lower on these variations. They end up laying out more like variations of 1235 type patterns to my ears/fingers. Anyone else have thoughts on these? Pretty quiet lately... :-)
    I find the 4ths easiest to play either along adjacent strings (-which is useful to be able to do, esp on the E/B and B/G strings) or with 3 nps fingerings.

    I haven't worked with the 5ths (here) yet. I'll make a video of how I play the 4ths either tomorrow or Monday. I'm glad this group is here. And too, I'm glad that it has moved at a liesurely pace. It kept me from throwing in the towel too soon, I think. I think the next 3-6 months will be of great benefit to me. I hope the same proves true for others here.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  45. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    Thumb. Hey, Matt, the way you have your thumb in this video is something I'm working on lately. Usually when I grip the pick this way, my thumb is parallel to the strings. (This leads--for many--to the "underhand" approach where one tends to pull down with with pick. I've done that a lot but, in the end, it does not work for me. It works like gangbusters for others.) But I have my thumb pointing down---as you do here---it works better. For me. But it's far from second nature, so I have to concentrate on it and check for maintaining that poistion.

    I think it shall prove to be a big deal for me. Hope so! My picking has sucked for longer than any single human being's picking should have to suck. ;o)
    Honestly, everything I ever learned in terms of thinking about that pick angle, I learned from reading all the conversations you guys had in that other epic thread a few years ago.

    My primary take away was that everything varies greatly from person to person, dependending on physiology. I have very much the opposite of Wes's or Reg's kind of double-jointed thumb. The other main takeaway I got from that thread was that I really didn't want to get bogged down in analyzing what my right hand was doing.

    I was basically just aiming for a general upward pick slant. I allowed myself permission to change it, even in individual practice sessions etc. I mostly focused on cleaning up my left hand. I've worked on it a lot, and I and it helped tremendously. But I feel like I kinda got the right hand for free. Always felt like it was my left hand that needed catching up.

    I guess that angle has gotten more extreme over time. It's kind weird to look at honestly.

  46. #45

    User Info Menu

    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Honestly, everything I ever learned in terms of thinking about that pick angle, I learned from reading all the conversations you guys had in that other epic thread a few years ago...

    I guess that angle has gotten more extreme over time. It's kind weird to look at honestly.
    I sometimes wish I had NEVER tried to change my picking. But I needed to. Not so much for speed as for consistency. It's hard to describe what I used to do but the result was my hand moved away from the strings at times---the result was inconsistency. And a very inconsistent inconsistency at that! Some times I could play fast and fine---yay! I've got it!---but later that same day I would butcher a passage I played right earlier. It was maddening.

    As you say, it's about more than the pick---the angle of the wrist and arm, the motion, posture, all of it.
    It turns out that the "underhand" approach is very comfortable for me. No stress or tension, easy-peasy, but it wasn't quite the sound I wanted and I found it hard to play medium-fast that way. (I could play tremolo stuff REALLY fast but that's not very important to me. Also, muting is a problem.)

    This way, what I call "thumb down" (for lack of a better term) gives me more definition and is better for heads, blues lines, and comping. It also seems more consistent. I think this is what is going to work best for my "day in, day out." God, I hope so!
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  47. #46

    User Info Menu

    Patterns 58 and 59 all variations in 8th notes at 140 bpm

    Wow! This set did not want to be born. I finally got it worked up to a decent speed, but kept making too many mistakes to record it all as one drill. I ended up breaking it into four different takes on the same backing track. Topping that off, my stupid camera decided to go out of focus in the middle of a couple of shots, so sorry about that. This is as good as it's getting. It's time to move on to the next set.





    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  48. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by FwLineberry View Post
    Patterns 58 and 59 all variations in 8th notes at 140 bpm

    Wow! This set did not want to be born. I finally got it worked up to a decent speed, but kept making too many mistakes to record it all as one drill. I ended up breaking it into four different takes on the same backing track. Topping that off, my stupid camera decided to go out of focus in the middle of a couple of shots, so sorry about that. This is as good as it's getting. It's time to move on to the next set.





    .
    No worries. I thought it was one of your best. Good job.

  49. #48

    User Info Menu

    Both patterns in one vid, multiple positions, some false starts. ;o)

    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  50. #49

    User Info Menu

    62 at around 140

    Instagram: @eriksguitarpicks

  51. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by ErikWasser View Post
    62 at around 140

    Good job. I've been working on 63 and 64. I completely forgot about skipping over 62. May not get to that one for a while. :-)