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  1. #51

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    While testing out angles and ways to record I made takes of 41 and 42. I try doing quarter note triplets over the backing track, but I’m really a fish out of water, having never done anything similar before. Any criticism on both playing and recording is welcome (even harsh), so I can continue working throughout the week with better results.





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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #52

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    These triplets are hard as hell.

  4. #53

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    Patterns for Jazz #40. Deadline version. Comments welcome.


  5. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by ErikWasser View Post
    While testing out angles and ways to record I made takes of 41 and 42. I try doing quarter note triplets over the backing track, but I’m really a fish out of water, having never done anything similar before. Any criticism on both playing and recording is welcome (even harsh), so I can continue working throughout the week with better results.




    No criticism . I'm just wondering why you are recording these doubletime? 8th note triplets lay in pretty nicely on most of the medium tempo swing styles on Drum Genius for me. Anyway, sounds good otherwise. Just curious. I think it would be cool to get some experience hearing them that way for sure.

    I'll try to get versions of a few of these up today. I'm all talk lately. :-)

  6. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by jasaco View Post
    Patterns for Jazz #40. Deadline version. Comments welcome.

    Thanks for posting Jim. Nice stuff on you're YouTube channel as well.

  7. #56

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    Can I join late? I was really frustrated with the Patterns for Jazz book when I got it. The studies looked nowhere near as exciting as Oliver Nelson's Patterns for Improvisation--we should do that volume next--GOOD STUFF.

    Anyway, after hearing all of the posts everyone has been doing--I'm not only impressed, but I can hear the potential for music in the context of an improvisation in these studies. I really couldn't hear that before.

    I saw mention of 3 nps somewhere here. I was wondering if anyone tried the same pattern with: different fingers, different positions, trying to get most of the pattern on: 1 string, 2 strings, 3 strings--etc? That could open up some more possibilities.

    Oh, if I join, do I have to post my progress in Youtube form or can I do it with Soundcloud? I'm a teacher by day, so posting stuff on Youtube--or any social media--makes me nervous.

  8. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Can I join late? I was really frustrated with the Patterns for Jazz book when I got it. The studies looked nowhere near as exciting as Oliver Nelson's Patterns for Improvisation--we should do that volume next--GOOD STUFF.

    Anyway, after hearing all of the posts everyone has been doing--I'm not only impressed, but I can hear the potential for music in the context of an improvisation in these studies. I really couldn't hear that before.

    I saw mention of 3 nps somewhere here. I was wondering if anyone tried the same pattern with: different fingers, different positions, trying to get most of the pattern on: 1 string, 2 strings, 3 strings--etc? That could open up some more possibilities.

    Oh, if I join, do I have to post my progress in Youtube form or can I do it with Soundcloud? I'm a teacher by day, so posting stuff on Youtube--or any social media--makes me nervous.
    Yes. Please feel free to join in.

    Regarding video, I prefer video formats personally, but you can post whatever. In terms of anonymity, I have other YouTube accounts. Some are nameless and headless.

  9. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Can I join late? I was really frustrated with the Patterns for Jazz book when I got it. The studies looked nowhere near as exciting as Oliver Nelson's Patterns for Improvisation--we should do that volume next--GOOD STUFF.

    Anyway, after hearing all of the posts everyone has been doing--I'm not only impressed, but I can hear the potential for music in the context of an improvisation in these studies. I really couldn't hear that before.

    I saw mention of 3 nps somewhere here. I was wondering if anyone tried the same pattern with: different fingers, different positions, trying to get most of the pattern on: 1 string, 2 strings, 3 strings--etc? That could open up some more possibilities.

    Oh, if I join, do I have to post my progress in Youtube form or can I do it with Soundcloud? I'm a teacher by day, so posting stuff on Youtube--or any social media--makes me nervous.


    It's always nice to see you play, but soundcloud works too.

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  10. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    No criticism . I'm just wondering why you are recording these doubletime? 8th note triplets lay in pretty nicely on most of the medium tempo swing styles on Drum Genius for me. Anyway, sounds good otherwise. Just curious. I think it would be cool to get some experience hearing them that way for sure.
    None taken, and thanks for the feedback! I just fooled around doing them with different metronome or play along settings and found this was hardest for me to do properly.

  11. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Can I join late?
    Welcome! Interesting idea with the 1, 2 or more strings thing.

  12. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Can I join late? .
    By all means! Glad to have you.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  13. #62

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    Wanted to play all 3 in one take. And allow myself to take the last one a bit slower.

    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  14. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Thanks for posting Jim. Nice stuff on you're YouTube channel as well.
    Thank you, Matt!

  15. #64

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    Patterns for Jazz #41 for deadline. Comments welcome.


  16. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Can I join late? I was really frustrated with the Patterns for Jazz book when I got it. The studies looked nowhere near as exciting as Oliver Nelson's Patterns for Improvisation--we should do that volume next--GOOD STUFF.
    I pretty much agree, the patterns are not very exciting and much (most?) of it I wouldn't consider vocabulary building. I see them more as technical excersises, learning the neck and working out the various shapes. To that end I think it is a good idea to stay roughly in the same position/area of the neck when running through them forcing one to play all the shapes. Also, good for picking practice.

    Much better than just practicing scales.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  17. #66

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    I haven't yet read ahead in the book. Do any of the future exercises get more interesting, i.e., out of the ionian mode and into some potentially usable lines?

  18. #67
    Next week begins 1235 patterns, eventually pick up patterns in dominant mixolydian and Dorian for minor. Then, there are a lot of II-V patterns .

    Interesting. I found the very old thread on the forum about this book , and basically they were talking about just starting with the 1235 patterns , because they're more interesting. I've gotten a lot out of the previous ones in terms of just firming up fretboard etc. the upcoming ones would be much more difficult without it in my opinion.

  19. #68

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    Patterns for Jazz #42 for deadline. Comments welcome.


  20. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by jasaco View Post
    I haven't yet read ahead in the book. Do any of the future exercises get more interesting, i.e., out of the ionian mode and into some potentially usable lines?

    Yes, they do.
    It's actually good to start when the patterns are simple becuase you get into the habit of posting and it's not much work to learn the patterns.
    Later on, things get more involved and different people will make different decisions about how they want to get the patterns under their fingers.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  21. #70
    Chromatic lower neighbors and enclosures follow after 1235's I think.

  22. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Next week begins 1235 patterns, eventually pick up patterns in dominant mixolydian and Dorian for minor. Then, there are a lot of II-V patterns .
    The 1235 pattern is very important. It's the main pattern Coltrane used in his "Giant Steps" solo. It's a flexible pattern too, works over a major or dominant chord, it's most of tha major pentatonic scale...

    Our own Jens Larsen has a good short video on them.

    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  23. #72
    Here's 38-40, mistakes and all. Any critique appreciated.





    Among other things, I'm really not an electric player, and my second string is so much louder than the others. I've never done anything with adjusting pickups, but it's probably time for me to get after it.

    Any thoughts on tone etc otherwise are especially appreciated.

  24. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Among other things, I'm really not an electric player, and my second string is so much louder than the others. I've never done anything with adjusting pickups, but it's probably time for me to get after it. .
    Me neither, but it was a big deal to Herb Ellis and someone recently posted a video hereabouts showing what Herb did. Herb's idea was simple: every string should be the same volume. He achieved this by adjusting the screws in the pickups. Well, here's the video describing what Herb did.

    (I found this on YouTube. It's posted somewhere else on the Forum.)

    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  25. #74

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    Patterns for Jazz #43 for deadline. Got a little bored with playing these straight so decided to try to make a little music out of this one. Comments welcome.


  26. #75

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    Patterns for Jazz #44 for deadline. Comments welcome.


  27. #76

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    I've had trouble with the minor 3rd progression. So now I've just closed the book and made myself play it from memory. Sometimes it goes just fine; other times, there's a snag. Today, there was a snag. But I'm so much better at this than I was just a few weeks ago that I am pleased overall.

    The first one (#44) is an exercise Carol Kaye teaches, so I've played that one a lot.

    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  28. #77

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    Yeah, 45 is awkward... (and i didn't mean that as a political statement... )

    That one's gonna take me awhile to figure out a decent approach to playing. (Though I'll have the nagging question of 'Why bother? It's so unmusical.' I suppose it's 'just cuz', not because it makes any musical sense. (Now, by contrast, going around the horn as in 44 makes good sense to me.)
    Last edited by jasaco; 06-17-2019 at 09:02 PM.

  29. #78

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    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  30. #79
    Here's 41 and 42 at 100 bpm. Sloppier than I'd like, but I've got to keep moving.



    I had these left over. I'm going to try to record 43-45 before I go out of town.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 06-17-2019 at 03:26 PM.

  31. #80

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    I will try to post something this week as my baby is back in daycare.

    Those "Coltrane" patterns are hard to get nice and legato (I mean connecting all the notes, not legato picking) because of all the interval jumps.

    I'm working on getting these patterns working up the neck in a continuous fashion. I find that I can relate to the sounds and notes better if I take it "out of position". There's nothing wrong with positional playing, I just relate to the neck better in a "horizontal" manner.

  32. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    I will try to post something this week as my baby is back in daycare.

    Those "Coltrane" patterns are hard to get nice and legato (I mean connecting all the notes, not legato picking) because of all the interval jumps.

    I'm working on getting these patterns working up the neck in a continuous fashion. I find that I can relate to the sounds and notes better if I take it "out of position". There's nothing wrong with positional playing, I just relate to the neck better in a "horizontal" manner.

    Looking forward to it.


    I started messing around with the new set last night. If I can get something suitable worked up, I'll probably do 44-47 all in one shot.

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  33. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Here's 41 and 42 at 100 bpm. Sloppier than I'd like, but I've got to keep moving.



    I had these left over. I'm going to try to record 43-45 before I go out of town.
    I liked it. I'll tell you why:

    1. You had a nice relaxed swing feel

    2. You took the time to shape the dynamics of each line in each exercise. When I took that lesson with Larry Koonse, he said "Don't play all your notes the same. Play some louder, some softer. Swallow some notes. Pay attention to the arch of the line"

    --> I think you are doing what Larry was talking about

  34. #83
    Pattern 43 at 88 bpm

  35. #84
    And here's mine for this week. I think this is the first on-time post in a long time.



    Big tempo increase going into these 1235's. Fun stuff...

  36. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by FwLineberry View Post
    Here's a chart of the fingerings I'll be using for the series of scale sequences. To me it doesn't make much sense to think in keys rather than fingerings for this type of stuff on the guitar if you already have your scales down. I decided to divide the shapes into three starting from each finger on the E, A and D strings.

    If it's not obvious, the naming convention I use is finger-string for the location of the tonic/chord root. So 1-E means tonic with the 1st finger on the E string. The x markings are notes that lie outside the basic shape in order to play the entire set of sequences.

    Attachment 62671
    Regarding the pdf you posted (on post #18 of this thread), is there software you use for that?
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  37. #86

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    Here's a thought on Pattern #40 descending... I'm a weak piano player and have no problem playing that on piano.

    On guitar it is very tough to play for the left hand.

    Perhaps not part of the guitar vocabulary because of this.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  38. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    Regarding the pdf you posted (on post #18 of this thread), is there software you use for that?

    The software is called Neck Diagrams. The latest version is pretty well done IMO, at least in Windows. There was a recent reddit post by a Mac user who thought it was a buggy, clunky POS.

    Chord chart and fretboard diagram software for guitar, bass, banjo, ukulele and ANY fretted instrument | Neckdiagrams.com

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  39. #88

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    44 and 45 140bpm

  40. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    Here's a thought on Pattern #40 descending... I'm a weak piano player and have no problem playing that on piano.

    On guitar it is very tough to play for the left hand.

    Perhaps not part of the guitar vocabulary because of this.
    Absolutely. These are killer. Mostly because of the fourths when you descend on that pattern.

    I think the real reason why we have so much trouble with these on all instruments, but ESPECIALLY on the guitar, is that most of the time these patterns flip when they change directions in books like this. Bert Ligon has a set of four of these patterns, and he doesn't flip them when changing directions. They made me so mad the first time I came across them, because of how bad I was at them. Seriously. Just couldn't handle it. (I always imagine stinking horn players even there's a hurdle like this. Gotta find a way.)

    I finally figured out that the only way to quiet the judgmental voice in my head on these was to practice them in isolation , without the un-flipped version which I was SO much better at. At that point, it really just became one more thing which I couldn't play and needed to work on. I've got plenty of those.

    I think if you just put these in the "extra credit" category for now and play the flipped-only versions a few times, each time you pick up the guitar, you'd come back to them in a week or so and notice less difference between them and the un-flipped ones.

    They're actually really satisfying to play once you figure them out, but it's a steep learning curve in the mitochondrial level, somewhat like learning to play again. They have the tactile sensation of something akin to bumbling down the stairs as a kid, where you bump down one at a time. Anyway, they solve a lot of problems and cover a lot of ground, especially when you get to fourths patterns later.

  41. #90

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    Jerry Coker Pattern 38 & 39 140 bpm, Pattern 40 90 bpm

    I've taken an approach to these that make more sense to my purposes. I'm playing them over my 5 forms (CAGED) and playing them as 2 octave exercises. So not all keys, all forms instead. That makes more sense for guitar, after all, all we have to do to change keys is slide the same fingering around the neck. No real practice benefit in that, imo.

    I didn't show all forms on the video, that would be too long.




    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  42. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    Jerry Coker Pattern 38 & 39 140 bpm, Pattern 40 90 bpm

    I've taken an approach to these that make more sense to my purposes. I'm playing them over my 5 forms (CAGED) and playing them as 2 octave exercises. So not all keys, all forms instead.
    That makes sense. When I was in the Jimmy Bruno Guitar Workshop I worked on "the five fingerings" in 3rds (a few variations of them) and also melodic cells. I think it was a good exercise.

    I will do this with the 3 nps fingerings when I have them down better.

    As for keys, I agree that it's not necessary to do things in all 12. Carol Kaye would say do only four: F, G, C and Eb. They're not everything, but anything you can play in those 4 keys shouldn't be much trouble to play in any other one you need to.

    The exception would be chromatic things...
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  43. #92

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    Patterns 41, 42, 43 100 bpm

    Again, just one form each

    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  44. #93

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    Despite having moaned about having to work on #45 and how unmusical it is and how I might just skip that one, and blah, blah, blah, I finally sat down to work on it again and discovered that with a little finger stretch beyond my accustomed Jimmy Bruno fingerings, I could make 45 work sensibly in my hands, without having to run all up and down the neck in minor thirds. In the process I discovered that it wasn't so tough after all. Silly me.

    Anyway, FWIW, here it is, for deadline. Comments welcome as always.


  45. #94

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    Patterns for Jazz #46 & 47 for deadline. Comments welcome.

  46. #95

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    Ergh... I'm falling behind and I haven't even posted a video yet.

    I will, I think the headless video might work for me. My daughter was really sick, so I didn't have the apartment to myself to record.

    I seem to remember someone suggesting using positional finger patterns instead of keys. That's extremely useful, especially for double time and uptempo playing.

    But, if you expand the scalar exercises that stay in one key into 2 or three octaves--you start to see where all the flats or sharps "move" the notes. The architecture of the entire neck opens up. And you have opportunities to problem solve shifts and fingerings.

    Just an observation while I was going through some of the studies. I found myself changing fingerings to odd choices, just to get the line to sound more fluid. You end up scrunching your fretting hand a little, and it seems sort of similar to the idea of a pianist crossing over with his or her thumb.

    I promise, I'll show some of these moves next week (when my daughter feels better--I hope). Some of them work, and some of them I'm still working out the kinks. I think it's interesting nevertheless. Someone else said that these studies can be awkward--I totally agree. But that awkwardness is an opportunity to learn more about how to navigate the fretboard.

    All that said, I'm really enjoying the posts here. I dunno if anyone else noticed, but everyone who posted his playing has a different style and approach to the guitar. That's really cool, we're all doing the same exercises--but we are all bringing something different to the table.

  47. #96

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    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post

    All that said, I'm really enjoying the posts here. I dunno if anyone else noticed, but everyone who posted his playing has a different style and approach to the guitar. That's really cool, we're all doing the same exercises--but we are all bringing something different to the table.


    Absolutely. That's what I like about seeing the videos.

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  48. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Irez87 View Post
    Ergh... I'm falling behind and I haven't even posted a video yet.

    I will, I think the headless video might work for me. My daughter was really sick, so I didn't have the apartment to myself to record.

    I seem to remember someone suggesting using positional finger patterns instead of keys. That's extremely useful, especially for double time and uptempo playing.

    But, if you expand the scalar exercises that stay in one key into 2 or three octaves--you start to see where all the flats or sharps "move" the notes. The architecture of the entire neck opens up. And you have opportunities to problem solve shifts and fingerings.

    Just an observation while I was going through some of the studies. I found myself changing fingerings to odd choices, just to get the line to sound more fluid. You end up scrunching your fretting hand a little, and it seems sort of similar to the idea of a pianist crossing over with his or her thumb.

    I promise, I'll show some of these moves next week (when my daughter feels better--I hope). Some of them work, and some of them I'm still working out the kinks. I think it's interesting nevertheless. Someone else said that these studies can be awkward--I totally agree. But that awkwardness is an opportunity to learn more about how to navigate the fretboard.

    All that said, I'm really enjoying the posts here. I dunno if anyone else noticed, but everyone who posted his playing has a different style and approach to the guitar. That's really cool, we're all doing the same exercises--but we are all bringing something different to the table.
    Ha. I thing my last one has my son screaming at his game console pretty loudly in the background....

  49. #98

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Ha. I thing my last one has my son screaming at his game console pretty loudly in the background....
    There are some adorable posts (-not in this thread) of Jezz Matz (Mr. Beaumont) playing at home while his little kids entertain themselves in the background.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  50. #99

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    Comments welcome. (I usually forget to say that.)

    I kept the first pattern on the top four strings. Three different (but closely related) fingerings, four times each.
    The second pattern seems to flow best (for me) this way.

    These are both from CAGED / Bruno / old school fingerings, not 3 nps.

    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  51. #100

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    Pattern 45 145 bpm

    I did this over the changes to Giant Steps, it was troublesome.

    B+
    Frank (aka fep)