The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by marcwhy
    Hey 73, great question!
    I would think that nut width/fingerboard spacing may be more important than scale length for what you're describing. Have you experimented with wider necks?
    Yes I have a few Eastman acoustics with a 1.75" width at the nut, good point though. I'll break one out and try a few things.

    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    People with fat fingers play mandolins without problems. I don't believe the scale makes much difference with single-note playing, unless it gets too long. The difference between 24.75" and 25.5" is only .75" total, and the distance between frets is very small. I don't notice any difference when switching between them. Others might.
    Single notes are not a problem, it's when I try to play entire chords up the neck that it is a challenge, my fingers feel squeezed together if that makes sense. Say a Cmaj7 with index finger on 8th fret with all the notes on two frets.

    Part of this is me fighting the GAS for a local long scale arch top when I am officially in downsize mode.

    Thanks for the replies.

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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Yes it makes sense. I spoke with a luthier about this, mind you he typically makes a 25" scale length instrument, but with regards to 24.75" mentioned that for chord playing higher on the fretboard "it gets pretty bunchy up there". So the same thing applies for 25" vs. 25.5", depending on one's finger width - and length. It does for me, and my fingers are normal/slender, but long.

    I also agree that a wider nut width should help with "jazz chords". Again, some voicing "grips" are just more... bunchy. (Not fat finger friendly, and not long finger friendly).

  4. #28

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    I have watched many pro players using a les paul and utilizing the neck past the 15th fret .. the trick here is holding the guitar neck almost vertical..I would watch Ted Greene closely and he would finger chords on his Tele all the way to the 21st fret and all the strings would ring true..again watch his vids he holds the neck way up to gain access to the higher frets..

    In doing so it brings the higher frets 'in front of you"..and with practice you can even play many chords..

    as for finger size..and all that..there are some fairly large guys that seem to have no problem..Warren Haynes on les pauls and 335s..way up on the frets..

    now of course playing up high does take alot of practice to become accurate and clear sounding..just like when we all started with cowboy chords
    Last edited by wolflen; 04-07-2019 at 05:31 PM.

  5. #29

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    There is that.

    I've never had a problem playing my Allman Bros. lead guitar or other blues/rock guitar stuff on 335s either, but there are some chords that would be a problem. The simple fact is, they don't come up in blues/rock playing.

    I also play with the neck tilted up but not at an extreme level. I'll check it out.

  6. #30

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    There are huge guys who play mandolin.

    There is a small difference in the distance between frets. I can feel it, at least at the lower frets. I'm not sure about the higher frets.

    But, even at the lower frets, the scale length is not the major variable. For me, it's the dimensions of the neck. I am mostly a 24 3/4 player but I don't notice any problem when I play my 25.5 Yamaha Pacifica because the neck is tiny. Unfortunately, every Telecaster I've ever tried feels too big. I used to think it was the scale length, but I now know better.

  7. #31

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    You don't need to get your entire finger between the frets. All you have to do is get the string down on a fret, what happens behind it is pretty much immaterial. If you finger covers two frets, that's fine, as long as the string contacts the higher fret cleanly.

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by sgosnell
    You don't need to get your entire finger between the frets. All you have to do is get the string down on a fret, what happens behind it is pretty much immaterial. If you finger covers two frets, that's fine, as long as the string contacts the higher fret cleanly.
    Very interesting, never thought about it that way. You probably are aware that there are a couple of problems with it in terms of standard guitar technique. What do you think of the following two observations?

    1. One's finger tip can't touch two frets at the same time. The fret is the metal bar.

    2. Traditional guitar technique advises that we depress the string right behind the fret, for the most accurate intonation.

  9. #33

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    One's finger can easily touch two frets at the same time. It has to be very high on the fretboard, on a very short scale instrument, but it's not difficult. I know what a fret is. The closer the frets are to each other, the easier it is to depress the string right behind the fret. As the frets get closer together, that becomes the only possibility. The OP's question doesn't concern fretting near the nut, but higher on the fretboard. If you go high enough, the space between frets is less than the width of any normal adult's finger, but it's still possible to play notes cleanly.

  10. #34

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    I know you do, lol.

    Anyway, I guess I would have to see a picture to appreciate what you mean. My index finger - tip - fits between the 19th and 20th frets on my 25.5 scale guitar, which are the two highest frets on this guitar (as I sit here practicing, and sipping somethin'). I can't touch both of those frets without flattening the finger tip sideways, which I have no reason to do under normal circumstances...

  11. #35

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    I have seen a lot of fat fingered Players who are still very agile ...

    Try it ... see what you like better.

  12. #36

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    ...I'm looking for a short scale 24inch (not 24.5 or 25.5) archtop guitar - does anyone make such a thing ? Or is it a custom job ??

  13. #37

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    The first model that comes to mind is the venerable Gibson Byrdland - as far as I know the first one with a shorter (23.5 ?) scale length. Not sure though whether the modern copies by Epiphone also have the shorter scale ....

  14. #38

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    .....I know about the Byrdland with it's 23.5 scale (and also the Epiphone clones) but these really are too expensive for my wallet and also not to easy to find....
    I've got a 25.5 Epiphone Emperor and an Epiphone 175 clone - both are getting a bit to much for my old 73 year old fingers when getting those nice jazzy chords.....Just thought I'd look around to see if there was such a guitar with a slightly shorter scale....

  15. #39

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    Try your Epiphone with a capo at the 2nd fret and tuned down a tone .. that's pretty much what you're looking for?

  16. #40

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    I have an Emerald X7 with a Krivo humbucker. It's a graphite acoustic with a 24" scale length and with the Krivo it has a pretty authentic sound.


  17. #41

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    Those shorter scales don’t intonate as good as the longer ones and that could make it even more difficult for you - in the archtop world you probably won’t find what you’re looking for, at least not in the lower price ranges. There are short scale flattop and nylonstring guitars out there, and affordable too. You could get a small Taylor or something similar and stick a magnetic pickup under the strings for an approximation of archtop sound....

  18. #42

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    A flat-top, not an archie, Martin DJr-10: 24" scale, surprisingly ergonomically comfy altogether.

    Despite their modest prices they go through a 'PLEK' machine and are very playable.

    Try enough examples and you'll find a stand-out, like I did.

    Good luck with your search.

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by gitman
    Those shorter scales don’t intonate as good as the longer ones and that could make it even more difficult for you - in the archtop world you probably won’t find what you’re looking for, at least not in the lower price ranges. There are short scale flattop and nylonstring guitars out there, and affordable too. You could get a small Taylor or something similar and stick a magnetic pickup under the strings for an approximation of archtop sound....
    It does require a lighter touch, especially if you string them lightly.

  20. #44

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    I've wondered about the intonation and tone of short scale guitars for jazz. Aging hands.

    My one contribution to the thread is this, though. I bought a Little Martin Ed Sheeran model which has a 23" scale. It has a nice thick upper register, which is what prompted the impulse buy. As it turned out, the action was too high for me.

    Then, my son got hold of it and recorded an album with it. Various finger picking and rock strumming sounds. It sounded great and, notably, completely in tune. He did not need to play chords high up on the fingerboard with some open strings -- maybe that wouldn't have worked.

  21. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    I've wondered about the intonation and tone of short scale guitars for jazz. Aging hands.

    My one contribution to the thread is this, though. I bought a Little Martin Ed Sheeran model which has a 23" scale. It has a nice thick upper register, which is what prompted the impulse buy. As it turned out, the action was too high for me.

    Then, my son got hold of it and recorded an album with it. Various finger picking and rock strumming sounds. It sounded great and, notably, completely in tune. He did not need to play chords high up on the fingerboard with some open strings -- maybe that wouldn't have worked.
    I think the whole concept works better with light strings and low action. Go with it rather than fight against it. The tone on my X7 with that setup is not as big but the intonation is not a problem and it's really easy on my hands.

  22. #46

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    If you're willing to look at solid bodies, you could check out an HH hard tail Fender Jaguar. There was also a model that came with P90s. 24" scale

  23. #47

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    Steven Holst can build you an archtop with scale length down to 24" (I think that's his minimum). I've had a Holst - it was a great guitar.

  24. #48

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    Rickenbacker had models with short scales. The famous black painted one John Lennon ised in The Beatles first years was short scale.

    Sendt fra min SM-T810 med Tapatalk

  25. #49

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    Intonation shouldn't be a problem for short scale guitars with tun-o-matic bridge with any gauge strings. I'm sensitive to intonation problems, that's why I don't use wood saddles. I can intonate my Byrdland perfectly well with 13 gauge strings.

  26. #50

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    I have a bariton ukulele that has 19" scale and is tuned to regular guitar tuning. The string tension is very low, which results in an incredibly nice mellow sound. Intonation is spot on though.