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  1. #1
    This study group is based on the book, Patterns for Jazz by Jerry Coker et al.

    Complete thread index for this study group here:

    Post a "deadline version" video of any or all of the weekly patterns, by Sunday each week, following this schedule:

    Mar 10: patterns 1-4
    Mar 17: patterns 5-6
    Mar 24: patterns 7-10
    Mar 31: patterns 11-12

    Please, state the BPM you're using, which pattern(s) you're posting, and label the post "deadline version", (understanding that a more "final version" may take additional time etc). Please state whether you would like comments on your playing. If you want the best comments possible, please be specific on exactly what you want comments on. "Especially my time/feel/right hand technique" etc etc. There are exceptions, but generally, people will be pretty vague and overly polite if they don't know exactly what you're looking for, ....what your experience level is , ...what your goals are etc.

    Additionally, please look ahead to upcoming weeks , and post preliminary versions if you want, especially if you are newer to this kind of work and want to take some of the edge off... or pressure etc. Posting an early baseline version will give other players a frame of reference to compare things to later, rather than just comparing you to "every other player".

    I've already posted one for the first week in the other thread, and my primary goal at this point only has to be somewhat improving on that, if I choose to see it that way.

    I personally would encourage any types of questions regarding these exercises as to their purpose , technical approaches , specific problems as related to guitar fretboard organization etc. etc. Please note that if you do NOT intend to post playing in this thread, your comments regarding the purpose word validity of these exercises belongs in a separate thread of your own creation elsewhere. Thanks.

    Please PM me corrections or post in the previous thread.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 05-29-2019 at 04:04 PM.

  2.  

    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #2
    Okay, to break the ice, I'll repost my preliminary version.



    My goals for my deadline version this week are:
    *to improve the audio of my drum genius backing by plugging into speakersand fixing volume,
    *to get a little better gain setting on my camera and possibly improve the tone of this electric otherwise.
    *to post these at the maximum of the "suggested tempo" range in the book with the best time and swing feel I can manage.

    All of my music day job and playing/teaching is with acoustic, and I'm really lazy about even plugging this thing in. It's definitely something I want to improve on. Tone generally that is. Probably need to get some real jazz plectrums among other things... :-) I'm using the neck pickup , which is a humbucker. The tone knob is almost all the way on the treble side with flat wound chromes. I'd have to look at the amp settings when I get home, but it's pretty bad amp for this purpose, honestly.

  4. #3

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    I am making an iReal playlist for this group.
    Let me know if are interested in sharing.

  5. #4

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    Hey Matt... so patterns 1-148 are great... I'll post whatever you want.... I can sightread any of these, and already have fingerings internalized. I could post possible fingerings for each pattern.

    When you get to patterns 149-233.... might want to insert the same previous patterns in melodic minor before. Would be much more useful for playing Jazz.... and then harmonic Min. (maybe even harmonic Maj.)... then patterns 149-233, the symmetric scales and arpeggios... If you don't do it up front... you'll just need to do it later. Symmetric scales and arpeggios have harmonic relationships to functional harmony... (not just Major).

    A note... when one works on these patterns... try and not look at neck while you play. It will be difficult, so go back and forth between watching and not. Getting away from starring at your guitar while you play just take practice and is part of performance.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doublea A View Post
    I am making an iReal playlist for this group.
    Let me know if are interested in sharing.
    I'm interested. I have iReal Pro.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    Hey Matt... so patterns 1-148 are great... I'll post whatever you want.... I can sightread any of these, and already have fingerings internalized. I could post possible fingerings for each pattern.

    When you get to patterns 149-233.... might want to insert the same previous patterns in melodic minor before. Would be much more useful for playing Jazz.... and then harmonic Min. (maybe even harmonic Maj.)... then patterns 149-233, the symmetric scales and arpeggios... If you don't do it up front... you'll just need to do it later. Symmetric scales and arpeggios have harmonic relationships to functional harmony... (not just Major).

    A note... when one works on these patterns... try and not look at neck while you play. It will be difficult, so go back and forth between watching and not. Getting away from starring at your guitar while you play just take practice and is part of performance.
    Yeah, I had the same thought re patterns #149 and up.

    I'd especially be interested in your take on some of the ii-V's. There's always discussion of thinking of them in terms of either the II or the V alone, but it occurs to me in thinking of these cycles, that on the guitar, it may as well be as much dependent on position as pure musical considerations. For example, if the root of the II is on 6th string, you may as well consider as if it's all II and "spell" the line as-if...

    Maybe different if root is on 5th? I have to want to see them more as V.

    Anyway, would be interested in your take...

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    I'm interested. I have iReal Pro.
    Great !!
    I actually found that someone has already posted the first 103 exercises in the iReal book forum so I can send you that playlist. PM me your email address.

    That goes for anyone else that would like the playlist as well. PM me your email address and I will forward you the playlist. Or, you can look it up on the forum.

  9. #8

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    Second post on this page for IReal playlist:

    Jazz Practice Exercises - Page 22

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  10. #9

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    Watching.
    "Your biggest discoveries come by playing" - Robert Conti

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Doublea A View Post
    Great !!
    I actually found that someone has already posted the first 103 exercises in the iReal book forum so I can send you that playlist. PM me your email address.

    That goes for anyone else that would like the playlist as well. PM me your email address and I will forward you the playlist. Or, you can look it up on the forum.
    I'll have to check this out.

    I'm currently using drum genius to play along with, and I'm just in love with this free app. I'll post the names of the loops I'm using for 1-4 today. Everyone else, please do the sameas you think about it.

  12. #11

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    Few comments.
    First way through (E and A string roots) is familiar. All 2nd finger roots. I could play that much faster.
    Second way through uses more fingerings (2nd, 3rd and 4th finger roots) and includes roots on the D string. Don't have this down at all.

    I have iRealPro on my phone but as I used the phone to record video, I didn't want to use it as a backing track (fearing it would be too loud in the mix). So I used my Zipbeat metronome. May have to switch to a webcam for future videos.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  13. #12

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    Isn't the deadline version the final version after working on it for a week?



    I don't know if I'll post a preliminary version this week. I'm still trying to work out some bugs in my audio/video setup. Thought I would get that ironed out this weekend, but it didn't happen.

    My approach for the sake of this group is going to be working the material through three positions - E A D set, A D G set and D G B set - staying in strict position for each set. I'm specifically trying to avoid just memorizing patterns and shapes on the fingerboard and forcing myself to be aware of the name of each root and the intervals I'm playing. To this end, I'm calling out the roots as I go through each exercise.

    I can play all four exercise without much trouble freestyle, but as soon as I throw a backing track on, I start fumbling around and missing the mark or getting lost on which root comes next. Certain things are throwing me off at this point. Thinking Gb rather than F# is a big one. I never realized such a simple thing could mess with my head and hands. Remembering the sequence of roots in minor thirds is completely foreign to me at this point as well.

    My goal for the week will be to get each set down well enough to play to the track without mistakes and hesitation.

    My overall goal for working this material is that I want to get to the point where I can play any scale or arpeggio in any key from wherever my hand is on the fingerboard without having to think about it.

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by FwLineberry View Post
    Isn't the deadline version the final version after working on it for a week?
    I thought the 'deadline' version was 'something in by the deadline, not polished.' But as my dad used to say, "I've been wrong before."

    I was determined to post something today just to get started.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    I thought the 'deadline' version was 'something in by the deadline, not polished.' But as my dad used to say, "I've been wrong before."

    I was determined to post something today just to get started.

    I guess we need to get clarity on that. Maybe we should call it week - starting and week - ending.

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  16. #15

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    So here is my first post on patterns 1-4. I hope I'm doing what we're supposed to be doing here. It's strange how I've played jazz guitar now for over 20 years and these basic triad patterns were tricky! The 5/4 pattern also threw me. But here it is, clams and all!

    Featuring... my 1960's Hagstrom I in brilliant bright red acrylic!

    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  17. #16

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  18. #17

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    Looks like a party, I'll see if I can hang.

    Pattern 1, 100bpm, pattern 2 110bpm

    Something different, I hope to sing all the patterns. But, I won't always subject you to the singing. Intonation is a challenge at this tempo (well, honestly, intonation is always a challenge at any tempo).

    Goal is to speed up and clean up. I want my left hand fingers that aren't fretting a note to stay tight/close to the strings, I want my pick motion to be more compact, I want to tighten up my rhythm.

    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  19. #18
    Wow. Kind of lit this thread up today. Good stuff. Thanks for posting, everyone.

    "Weekending" works as well as anything. That's what I meant by "deadline". I just didn't like the sound of "final" version on something like this...

    I really like seeing the different approaches.

  20. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    So here is my first post on patterns 1-4. I hope I'm doing what we're supposed to be doing here. It's strange how I've played jazz guitar now for over 20 years and these basic triad patterns were tricky! The 5/4 pattern also threw me. But here it is, clams and all!

    Featuring... my 1960's Hagstrom I in brilliant bright red acrylic!
    Good job.
    That drum genius pattern has been one of my go-to's as well. Infectious... Did you check out the "Take 5" pattern? It may be a little on the fast side. I'd have to look, but it works well for this 5/4 pattern. There's another New Orleans 5/4 that's way faster than the target BPM but is a lot of fun too.

  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    A note... when one works on these patterns... try and not look at neck while you play. It will be difficult, so go back and forth between watching and not. Getting away from starring at your guitar while you play just take practice and is part of performance.
    I kind of groaned when I read this but have been trying it. I'm actually struck by how much more my hands know to do than I would have thought. I keep wondering how it's possible on some of these wider skips. Anyway, thanks.

  22. #21

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    Hey Matt... it's just time on skill thing....

    For me i hear what I'm playing so even when I miss... on larger leaps, I move one way or the other, (grace note0. Generally it's just changing your habit of watching.

    The other side... you can watch some great players... who stare at their neck. It won't happen by it's self.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    So here is my first post on patterns 1-4 ... Featuring... my 1960's Hagstrom I in brilliant bright red acrylic!
    Ha! Lawson on a solid body? Totally unexpected, sir!

  24. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by M-ster View Post
    Ha! Lawson on a solid body? Totally unexpected, sir!
    Well that's me all over, right. Rocking the boat.

    That Hagström has one of the best necks of any guitar I ever played. I started out on one of those in my early teen years and recently had the chance to buy this one, which is the very model I began on.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  25. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    Well that's me all over, right. Rocking the boat.

    That Hagström has one of the best necks of any guitar I ever played. I started out on one of those in my early teen years and recently had the chance to buy this one, which is the very model I began on.

    Reminds me of the line from T. S. Eliot:
    We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    Reminds me of the line from T. S. Eliot:
    We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time
    Nice. Where's that from? I thought I knew my TSE quotes but that one is fresh.
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  27. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone View Post
    Nice. Where's that from? I thought I knew my TSE quotes but that one is fresh.
    "Little Gidding", from "Four Quartets." I'd paste it in here but it's on the long side.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  28. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    Second way through uses more fingerings (2nd, 3rd and 4th finger roots) and includes roots on the D string. Don't have this down at all.
    Hey Mark. How are you fingering that D form on your second time through? Looks like 3-2-1-1? Basically, E- form up a fret I guess. always interested in how CAGED people approach the D-form. It's definitely the most contentious position in terms of caged or other fingering approaches etc.

    I'd be interested in others' s take on that D- forum arp, in terms of what might be consensus anyway (maybe Christian uses this one?). Seems like I remember Mike Christiansen using a pinky shift up the fretboard on the second string for that upper octave. So his D-form would be 2-1-1-4 from the same fret as the A-form. I'd have to look back. Anyway, your fingers are so long, you make everything look like it's a one position. :-)

  29. #28

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    I just read through the first 16 patterns....
    So it seems that one should work through in positions

    When I sight read through, I played them all between 5th and 7th position. Which used standard position shapes. There are a few options... but seem to lay easily on fretboard.

    I tried a few others... 2nd to 4th, then 8th - 10th.... they all seem to work.

    It seems that eventually when we get to larger arpeggios... 6ths, 7th, 9ths etc... you need to have shapes that fit into positions, I don't think it will matter whats system you use... caged, 3 notes per string or 7 positions.... the point is to have a fretboard system that repeats.

    Eventually your not going to have to figure fingerings...they will be internalized and you will only be choosing how you want the pattern to sound, different fingerings have different natural articulations etc...

  30. #29
    So, this is slightly random regarding cycling patterns . Just thought it was curious....

    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    I just read through the first 16 patterns....
    So it seems that one should work through in positions

    When I sight read through, I played them all between 5th and 7th position. Which used standard position shapes. There are a few options... but seem to lay easily on fretboard.

    I tried a few others... 2nd to 4th, then 8th - 10th.... they all seem to work.

    It seems that eventually when we get to larger arpeggios... 6ths, 7th, 9ths etc... you need to have shapes that fit into positions, I don't think it will matter whats system you use... caged, 3 notes per string or 7 positions.... the point is to have a fretboard system that repeats.

    Eventually your not going to have to figure fingerings...they will be internalized and you will only be choosing how you want the pattern to sound, different fingerings have different natural articulations etc...
    Thanks for this reg.

  31. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkRhodes View Post
    "Little Gidding", from "Four Quartets." I'd paste it in here but it's on the long side.
    No problem. that's never far from my desk, even in a frenzy of research on vastly different matters, and you can see!
    Patterns for Jazz study group - March 2019-img_2644-jpg
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  32. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reg View Post
    ...
    Eventually your not going to have to figure fingerings...they will be internalized and you will only be choosing how you want the pattern to sound, different fingerings have different natural articulations etc...
    On your very last point here, I have always felt that vaguely but never got the thought so concrete and explicit. Yes, different fingerings have different natural articulations. I have been asked why I chose some positions at times because they were "harder" or "awkward" and I realize now it was because I liked the articulation.

    I don't like the "C Position" fingering for major arpeggios because it to easily becomes sweep picking-articulation.

    Somehow this very terse summary just clicked for me. I feel like I understand now why I've inclined toward playing some things a certain way.

    Day made. Not even 1 PM and I can go to bed happy!
    - Lawson
    "Whenever you come near the human race, there's layers and layers of nonsense." - Thornton Wilder, Our Town

  33. #32

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    So I've slightly modified my approach on this.

    After reading Reg's comments about position playing, I'm putting more emphasis on position playing. It was a better way to organize this a little and not be completely random. Still gives me a lot of benefit of making choices but just kind of reels it in a little bit from being a free for all and I like that. It just makes sense that you would probably naturally play out of a position and then shift positions as opposed to randomly jumping around, Although I'm not counting that out haha.

    Thanks for starting this thread and excercise, Matt. I'm a little blown away with some of the benefits I'm already seeing with regard to fretboard freedom. Just in these first 4 patterns I can already sense that I'm seeing the fretboard a little more clearly but also I'm hearing it .

    I find not looking to be a crazy challenge, especially on the circle of 5ths and the minor 3rd transitions. wow. I am trying not to be buried in the fretboard though. Just gonna take some time.

    Anybody else feel there is 3 months of study in just these first 4 patterns? lol

  34. #33

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    oh, and I just wanted to add.....

    I can also see how these first major patterns are a springboard for extensions, dominant and minor patterns coming so I wouldn't expect every few groups of patterns to take 3 months, but certainly these major patterns are foundational in nature and for me, worth spending a lot of time organizing them.

  35. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Hey Mark. How are you fingering that D form on your second time through? Looks like 3-2-1-1? Basically, E- form up a fret I guess. always interested in how CAGED people approach the D-form. It's definitely the most contentious position in terms of caged or other fingering approaches etc.

    I'd be interested in others' s take on that D- forum arp, in terms of what might be consensus anyway (maybe Christian uses this one?). Seems like I remember Mike Christiansen using a pinky shift up the fretboard on the second string for that upper octave. So his D-form would be 2-1-1-4 from the same fret as the A-form. I'd have to look back. Anyway, your fingers are so long, you make everything look like it's a one position. :-)
    About that D form. We're talking about the root on the D string right? The hard way (which I usually do) is 2-1-3-4 (strings D G G and B); the easy way is 3-2-1-1 on the bottom four strings. (The "F" chord I learned as a kid.) Every day I play in a certain key through the five positions / fingerings / shapes (whatever) and play up one 7th chord and down the next. The 2-1-3-4 fingering for a major 7 with a with the root on the D string is my least favorite.

    I'll make a video later.

    As for CAGED, I got the five fingerings (got them down, I should say) via Jimmy Bruno. He hates the term CAGED. Joe Pass liked it. They're really the same. But I didn't learn it thinking of CAGED. To Jimmy, the fingerings are named for the lowest note in the fingering. For Jimmy, if you're in C, the lowest (closed) fingering has the root on the A string, 3rd fret. But the lowest note in the position is G, the 5th of C, so that's fingering 5. Fingering 6 starts on A, and fingering 7 starts on B. Fingering 2 starts on D and fingering 3 on E.

    And this is why Jimmy prefers "pitch collection" to "scale." Fingering 5 turns out to be (in C): G A B C D E F G A B C D E F G A. That's all the notes of the C scale but you don't play it root to root, you play all the available notes in the position.

    I relate this to Pat Martino's "five activities" in his book "Linear Expressions." (Same 6-4-3-2 chord inversions of m7 chords.) But that's another story. ;o)
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  36. #35

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    I'm implementing Michael Kaye's approach of staying in the same area of the neck. I like that it forces one to use a bunch of different patterns. Never the same pattern consecutively.

    Also, fyi in case some don't know. Jerry Coker is not a guitarist, he is a saxophonist and educator. Thus, no specific guitar position or fingering guidance in this book.



    Regarding Matt's request about how we are using the D form:

    I am using the Caged D form at parts of this video, actually I'm using all 5 forms in this video. I play the D Form per the attached 1st measure. I'll sometimes combine the D and C form as in the 2nd measure. There is no rule that you can't combine the CAGED positions, no rule you have to be "CAGED" in with CAGED. I think those that criticize the CAGED system don't consider that the positions get combined to create these hybrid positions.

    (The 3-2-1-1 that Mark described is not a D form, it is the E form as Matt mentioned).
    Attached Images Attached Images Patterns for Jazz study group - March 2019-d-form-jpg 
    Last edited by fep; 03-05-2019 at 05:43 PM.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  37. #36

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    If trying to deepen awareness of the fingerboard is one of your goals
    then I would consider practicing the patterns in the context of 5 fret positions.
    2 1/3 octaves of the chromatic scale and one unison are contained in every 5 frets.
    Pick any 5 frets and stay there for the whole pattern. For chromatic ascending,
    I would suggest starting on the lowest possible chord in the position
    and continuing to the highest one rather than C (ex. 1st position F major > A major)
    This yields most of the standard fingering possibilities as well as several awkward ones.
    In my opinion, there is also value in learning to problem solve best possible fingering solutions
    for more awkward note locations.

  38. #37

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    Here's a quick take on the first pattern in two octaves. Planning to work on cleanliness and time feeling!


    Inviato dal mio SM-G955F utilizzando Tapatalk

  39. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by benjaminjoe View Post
    Here's a quick take on the first pattern in two octaves. Planning to work on cleanliness and time feeling!

    Ha! I didn't think of using a finger tap move on the B string roots. I might have to rethink my approach.

    .
    The disgusting stink of a too-loud electric guitar; now that's my idea of a good time - Frank Zappa

  40. #39

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    Recorded this with my iTrack Pocket. The guitar was not plugged into the Pocket, so the voice and guitar were captured by the Pocket's external mics. First attempt (with this device) to record talk and playing. I think it came out well enough for what I was trying to do.

    Fingering choices...

    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  41. #40

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    The way I was taught by a CAGED guru, the source isn't scales, it's chords.

    Play a D major chord in open position, as Bill Thrasher called them, "play a D cowboy chord". Okay, now play the D minor cowboy chord (open position). Those are both D form chords from the CAGED system. D major7, D7, Dm7, all in open position and all D form. And if you want to approach them with CST, they have different scale fingerings / pitch collections for the major, minor, or dominant versions, but named based on the CAGED chord position, not on a scale. It's a chord grip approach first.

    I think it's an important distinction that changes ones perspective. From the very start one is more aware of chord tones, and ones playing is more chord tone directed (for better or worse).
    Last edited by fep; 03-06-2019 at 01:19 AM.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  42. #41

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    Hey Frank... position playing can also be based on chords... there really isn't any approach difference between playing caged patterns or 7 position chord patterns... Both systems create patterns... just different patterns.

    Personally... every single note I play is a chord. I think most don't realize the chordal aspects of position playing because they didn't get taught that way. (maybe that's why many young guitarist can't comp). Was that the way you were introduced to position playing... through scales only. Gets to that problems of teachers ....not really understanding what they're teaching.

    At what age is the student responsible etc...

    I also like caged sounds and patterns created from. They are very Guitar friendly and open position organization is generally where most guitarist start... seems natural for the instrument. Like playing pentatonics on guitar compared to piano which create much more difficult fingerings... and sax, gets weird in B.

    Anyway... when you eventually get to playing these same patterns using 9th's 11th's and 13th's and chords from Harmonic and melodic minor... it's helpfull to be aware and able to use other shapes along with caged.

    But I definitely like your point about being aware of CHORDS concept.

  43. #42

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    Aside: I went through this thread and clicked on most of the pattern videos, so they played at the same time. Instant Ornette!
    Build bridges, not walls.

  44. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    The way I was taught by a CAGED guru, the source isn't scales, it's chords.
    That's how I see it. If you know where the root, 3rd and 5th are, you can figure out the rest. ;o)
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  45. #44
    Here's what probably should be a more finished version, but I accidentally lined up the world's worst camera angle. Needed to retune by the last pattern as well. I'll see if I can do something better on Friday maybe.



    These are versions of me doing it the way reg talked about in a post above. I can "think" in 7th position pretty well, but I need to work on adding some others to my more solid, go-to positions for sure. I'd appreciate any comments/tips on tone especially. I'm a long-time acoustic guy and too lazy with electric honestly.

    Any comments on any aspect appreciated. Thanks.

  46. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    Here's what probably should be a more finished version, but I accidentally lined up the world's worst camera angle. Needed to retune by the last pattern as well. I'll see if I can do something better on Friday maybe.



    These are versions of me doing it the way reg talked about in a post above. I can "think" in 7th position pretty well, but I need to work on adding some others to my more solid, go-to positions for sure. I'd appreciate any comments/tips on tone especially. I'm a long-time acoustic guy and too lazy with electric honestly.

    Any comments on any aspect appreciated. Thanks.
    That camera angle is good for watching your right hand. I'm impressed with your right hand technique which is very similar to my go to picking technique (I have three right hand plectrum techniques but my primary one is the same as yours). What you do well that I don't is your hand is quite, compact and efficient. I bounce in and out of the strings too much. I don't see the bounce in your picking, one has to move in a way to avoid the strings when skipping strings, but I don't see any bounce in your technique.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  47. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    That camera angle is good for watching your right hand. I'm impressed with your write hand technique which is very similar to my go to picking technique (I have three right hand plectrum techniques but my primary one is the same as yours). What you do well that I don't is your hand is quite, compact and efficient. I bounce in and out of the strings too much. I don't see the bounce in your picking, one has to move in a way to avoid the strings when skipping strings, but I don't see any bounce in your technique.
    Thanks, Frank. That means a lot coming from you.

    I started that thing a couple of years ago I guess around the time of epic Benson picking discussion. I read up on it some and tried to come up with something that basically works or whatever. My main requirement of myself was that I would generally try to do the angle and NOT think about right-hand much otherwise. I change the grip here and there, from time to time , depending on mood , style music, and how long once been playing etc. I never obsess over it or overanalyze the right hand. The Benson thread cured me of that. :-)

    99% of my focus has been on cleaning up left-hand stuff, and I've just kind of gotten some right hand for free.

    Honestly, it's gonna sound weird, but I think the most helpful thing for me with picking (and everything else really) has been working on subdividing more. I played triplets on everything for a while, and I noticed that the unintended consequence was that my eighth notes sounded much better, (or even quarter notes etc). You subconsciously learn to start planting the pick on specific subdivisions etc. My plectrum "hears" much faster than I could ever think. Anyway, one day I looked down and realized that basically I'm doing reststrokes on a lot of my up-strokes? Weird...

    You are my study group hero by the way. :-) The Frank groups are hands-down the best threads ever. A real forum legacy.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 03-07-2019 at 10:55 AM.

  48. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt.guitarteacher View Post
    You are my study group hero by the way. :-) The Frank groups are hands-down the best threads ever. A real forum legacy.
    Couldn't agree more. Frank (fep) is the king of study group leaders! (Or if 'king' sounds undesirable, 'most effective' should do.)
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  49. #48

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    Thanks guys , this is a great community.

    This study group looks really promising... I think it's mostly about getting a good group of participants that stick to it. The material for this study group looks to be capsulized well into sections which I think will work well.
    B+
    Frank (aka fep)

  50. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by fep View Post
    Thanks guys , this is a great community.

    This study group looks really promising... I think it's mostly about getting a good group of participants that stick to it. The material for this study group looks to be capsulized well into sections which I think will work well.
    I think both those elements are important: 1) a good group of participants and 2) bite-size sections of material to work on.
    "Learn the repertoire. It’s all in the songs. If you learn 200 songs, you will have no problem improvising."
    Frank Vignola

  51. #50
    So it's Thursday. Post more finished versions or different versions of this week if you like, by Sunday.

    Also, begin posting more preliminary versions of the next couple weeks or so as you see fit. Also post thoughts, questions observations and ideas about fingering approaches or anything else related to these upcoming patterns. Thanks.
    Last edited by matt.guitarteacher; 03-07-2019 at 11:14 AM.