The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
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  1. #1

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    I read the Tuck Andress article years ago, when it came out, and thought it made sense, but at the time I didn't have much trouble playing at the speed I wanted, and I could not really make sense of what he described.

    Many years later I'm older and slower in every way and I decided to take a look at it again. Went through that long crazy thread on Benson picking. Watched multiple videos, tried various things. I managed to get it to work and have been practicing at it steadily

    My conclusion is that it does present a more fluid, easier way of picking, the pick moves naturally and easily off and onto the strings. Moving just your wrist instead of your forearm makes for greater economy. It can play more fluidly at higher tempos, or execute double time passages more easily at tempo. I'm not interested in becoming a speed demon, so I'm not going to push it to extremes. I also can't make much use of the Fender medium or other lighter picks, which are said to be the key to the whole benson picking thing. I use a D'Andrea pro plek 1.5 mm, and I like the sound of it. The thinner picks are hard to manage and I don't like the sound.

    I have the left edge of my palm on the guitar, and bring the pick to the strings at roughly a 45 degree angle, maybe closer to 90 degrees at times. It ends up being an extension of what I was already tending to do before, which is angle the pick.

    If you are on the fence about the benson picking thing it's worth sticking with. It does seem to make some things a little harder, like funky staccato articulations, and I find I'm more likely to use a downstroke where before I might have used an upstroke on some things. It takes some getting used to.

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  3. #2

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    what tuck andress article?

  4. #3

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    It's not on the web anymore. It was the first time I ever saw attention paid to Benson's technique

    here is an archived version

    Tuck & Patti: Pick & Fingerstyle Techniques

  5. #4

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    cool thanks!

  6. #5

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    It is a mystery to me. I had a weekend of picking anxiety in which I read the Tuck Andress article many times and tried to follow his lead. I vaguely remember a part about the pick moving in its own plane, which did not make sense to me. I admit, I am an art historian, and physics and geometry are not my friends, but something did not seem right. But I persisted and made a serious attempt to play his way. By nightfall, I was in agony.

    I returned to my old ways as soon as I recovered the use of my fingers and wrist. Apart from the pain, I gained nothing from the Benson method. I have never felt the need to move my forearm or elbow when playing and I found no more fluidity. I also lost the ability to mute the lower strings.

    But then again, it is horses for courses. I came across this video of Sheryl Bailey and Deidre Cartwright in a pub in Stoke Newington. They have very different techniques: Bailey does something like the Benson thing and Cartwright does something like what I do, but much better. Many other admirable guitarists have they own ways of picking. Perhaps we worry too much about our right hands.


  7. #6

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    It is a little clickbaity, but this dude's article does a really good job at dissecting the Tuck article (and it has pictures): How To Play Like Benson & Santana: The Counterintuitive Picking Technique That Transformed My Guitar Playing - Fretboard Anatomy

  8. #7

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    Oops double post

  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    It is a mystery to me. I had a weekend of picking anxiety in which I read the Tuck Andress article many times and tried to follow his lead. I vaguely remember a part about the pick moving in its own plane, which did not make sense to me. I admit, I am an art historian, and physics and geometry are not my friends, but something did not seem right. But I persisted and made a serious attempt to play his way. By nightfall, I was in agony.

    I returned to my old ways as soon as I recovered the use of my fingers and wrist. Apart from the pain, I gained nothing from the Benson method. I have never felt the need to move my forearm or elbow when playing and I found no more fluidity. I also lost the ability to mute the lower strings.

    But then again, it is horses for courses. I came across this video of Sheryl Bailey and Deidre Cartwright in a pub in Stoke Newington. They have very different techniques: Bailey does something like the Benson thing and Cartwright does something like what I do, but much better. Many other admirable guitarists have they own ways of picking. Perhaps we worry too much about our right hands.


    Hey I’m a historian too, though not an art historian. Historian of the US.

    i tried it years ago, as mentioned, and found it ridiculous and awkward. I kept thinking I had to be doing it wrong because it was so bad. Then years later there was a ton more written about it, including the article linked below, and video examples. it seemed more doable.

    I was surprised how fast it came together. For me it was mostly a matter of how I heliits not a miracle cure all and I’m still getting used to some aspects of it, and yes lots of great players don’t use this method so I don’t think it’s at all necessary. It hasn’t yet transformed me into a great player!

  10. #9

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    Can Tuck Andres even pick proficiently ...I always see him playing a very full Orcestral 4 -5 fingers fingerstyle.
    IF you are going to learn from someone- make sure they can pick like a Mofo.

    Check out the young Andreas Varady ...conventional wrist and light edge of thumb support ...mostly alt picking and you hear that he has a lot of the Benson time feel and snap crackle pop.

    So you don't need the knife picking thing if you don't adapt to it...just saying ...

    Time feel and fluency is one thing how you hold the pick is another-

    1]Benson sounds a LOT like Benson ....

    2]Peter Farrel sounds a lot like Benson ( seems to be a great Player even when not sounding like Benson - see the clip at Norman's Guitar shop.And Farrel does use the knife picking slice thing -mostly Alt Picking - like EVERYONE who is good regardless of grip.

    But after Benson and Farrel - we get a whole bunch of people with a bit of dropoff....

    And Varady using conventional grip is as close as most of the second tier.

    Watch his simple , elegant, logical mechanics on his Vids .

    I see a lot of people adjusting their grip WHILE they are playing who use the Benson Grip....give it time ...study with Peter Farrel - not people who are just guessing...

    But if it doesn't click for you ...you can get the time feel anyway IF you 'hear ' it and get mechanics out of the way.

    Jazz Guitar Soloing is about running all over the Fingerboard in 8ths and 16ths- get THAT down First- then plug in better and better notes...is my advice....get the mechanics out of the way keep it simple.

    Benson time feel is NOT behind the beat.. snap crackle POP ...not lazy...

    You should learn picking from a guy or woman who can pick like a Mofo in Rhythm .
    Last edited by Robertkoa; 12-31-2018 at 11:32 PM.

  11. #10

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    If you adopt Benson Picking and it doesn't work out can you give him back?
    Last edited by Drumbler; 12-03-2018 at 05:27 PM.

  12. #11

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    I think best time feel of any guitar player was Billy Bean, and he didn't Benson pick. Apparently he wasn't strict alternate either.

    Well, I should qualify this by disclosing that I haven't listened to a ton of George Benson, but I've seen some great players who Benson pick.

  13. #12

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    Two things that are extremely hard to do
    Online are :

    1] Really fall in love and have that person really fall in love with you.

    2] Learn how to pick .


    I almost never see ANYONE EVER post a thread or in one - despite that :

    There's what -80 different - threads named after a Player - people dissect and research his Technique ' no he's definitely either biting his tongue or scrunching his lips together on the harder parts '

    Stowell Picking / Chuck Berry Picking etc.

    And you never hear someone say ...

    'Yeah ! I adopted that style picking and do sound a lot like ______ now .'

    It's rarely a big success story ...
    Last edited by Robertkoa; 03-07-2019 at 11:46 PM.

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drumbler
    If you adopt Benson Picking and it doesn't work out can you give him back?
    I figured it's better not to take chances, plus I have my own picking that is still with me and makes me happy..

  15. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robertkoa
    Two things that are extremely hard to do
    Online are :

    1] Really fall in love and have that person really fall in love with you.

    2] Learn how to pick .
    1] you're missing out big time, give it another try!
    2] Agreed. But that's not what online is for (see@ 1 )

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robertkoa
    Two things that are extremely hard to do
    Online are :

    1] Really fall in love and have that person really fall in love with you.

    2] Learn how to pick .
    Herb Ellis said that picking the guitar is like putting in golf. What works for one (great) player might be the ruin of another. Subtleties of grip, feel, and stroke are hard to convey. And even if conveyed well, they may be misinterpreted.

    I've never been happy with my picking and it bugs me daily. Gradually I get a bit better. I may never be happy with it. Them's the breaks. I ain't quittin'. As G. K. Chesterton put it, "If something is worth doing, it's worth doing badly." I gradually become less bad.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    1] you're missing out big time, give it another try!
    2] Agreed. But that's not what online is for (see@ 1 )
    Exactly .
    That's why I wrote it.


    I did not try to fall in love Online.
    I did not learn to pick Online - lol

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Robertkoa
    Exactly .
    That's why I wrote it.


    I did not try to fall in love Online.
    I did not learn to pick Online - lol
    I mean, by the time Online happened, I already knew how to pick.

    But Online quite helped me with love searching. Maybe not the same as 'fall in love' exactly, but ... wait, what forum is it?

    Oh yeah, Benson picking. Maybe it's just a way to get a different tone if you feel so inclined, but I don't believe for a sec it can improv your picking per se if it's not already good. Like magically, I suck, but I changed my pick angle and all of a sudden I pick like a champ! Right.

    Most importantly for me, any picking hand technique that doesnt allow you to palm mute on a whim is seriuosly flawed. That's my story and I stick to it!

  19. #18

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    There is a huge thread about Beson picking here! and there are lots of thought already!

    In my opinion there is nothing to think about: it's try and see...

    I use it sometimes but I have always been very adoptive to any new techniques... so I have no problem switching there and back.. I do not feel like I lose something and so on.

    Tuck Andress is a fantastic guitarist but as I read some of his article I felt like he is a bit crazy about technical details... I mean any good player shoudl be focused on nuances of course... but he really like to systemize, explaine, elaborate etc. - this concerns both gears and playing technique... what I mean is that what he says is probably important for him as a part of the process - his process.. not necessarily mine or yours (Benson himself for example would hardly ever care about something like this...)

  20. #19

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    Oh yeah, Benson picking. Maybe it's just a way to get a different tone if you feel so inclined, but I don't believe for a sec it can improv your picking per se if it's not already good. Like magically, I suck, but I changed my pick angle and all of a sudden I pick like a champ! Right.
    eh... actually changing technique can improve technique)))

    Not in a way you describe it of course)))

    But there can be more efficiency in some techniques than in the others...

    the oinly thing that peoplpe often forget about that picking is first of all not speed but 'control over the tone' that includes timbre, articulation, dynamics, and only last point I believe is speed (becasue speed is actually the result of all the others)...

    People often just do not really work with picking (or left hand hammer-on/pull-off which is also picking essentially)... they try to work with speed.

  21. #20

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    I read those threads. I enjoy them a lot- the arguments, the passion, the wars!

    Of course, I tried all the different techniques. I concluded any will do, if you're relaxed. Or nothing will, if you're not.

    So start with a good Classical teacher, and you will be set for life.

  22. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
    I read those threads. I enjoy them a lot- the arguments, the passion, the wars!

    Of course, I tried all the different techniques. I concluded any will do, if you're relaxed. Or nothing will, if you're not.

    So start with a good Classical teacher, and you will be set for life.
    I was not addressing to you actually))) in that post about reading a thread and all... (I was not addressing to anyone - it was more like thoughts)...

    But regarding efficiency - it is easy to say when you already have it and maybe you are lucky to achieve it easily or naturally... but some cannot do that so easily.

    By the way with classical teachers the problem is there are not so many good ones really... I know quite a few musical colleges graduates (two colleges that you know for sure too))) - who have terrible technique - especially left-hand.. and nobody corrected them for years.. and now they get their diplomas and begin to teach themselves.
    Besides classical teacher will hardly help you with pick playing.

  23. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Litterick
    Sheryl Bailey and Deidre Cartwright in a pub in Stoke Newington. They have very different techniques: Bailey does something like the Benson thing and Cartwright does something like what I do, but much better.

    Was at a Q&A with Sheryl Bailey when someone asked about her picking technique - she said it took a good six months work to get Benson picking up to speed, for most of that time she couldn't play what she wanted (not much fun as a working guitar player in NY). She doesn't advise her students at Berklee to do it because of the months spent feeling you're going backwards but most of her students make the change anyway, she did say she can play faster...

  24. #23

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    Picking has been my biggest technical frustration as well. I ended up with benson picking too, after having tried most of the other methods, it just fits my hands and arms better, and many of the players i like play that way.

    Muting becomes difficult, as your palm moves away from the bass strings. Also strumming acoustic or funk style is a lot of work to get right. Not many players strum that way. Also the rest stroke with overdrive or distortion...Frank Gambale uses economy picking with distortion, but with heavy compression on the sound.

    Big part of it is slanting and angling the pick so it crosses the strings in an easier way, but most fast picking rock and metal players that pick normally also do it, but the other way. Extending the wrist a bit instead of curling it. So they have the crossing the strings part, but also the muting and no noise from the rest stroke.

    The rest stroke is the last thing of the benson picking technique. For me thats the reason to use benson picking, cause it is unique in this technique, and a big part of its sound and groove. This and also a bit of elbow motion when ascending scales, which again you rarely see with mainstream shred metal players (although some use it). Just watch rodney jones small video, such ease with pick positioning, but always anchoring that pick..



    or this guy, Alex Weir, for a rhythm player perspective (and a very hip guitarist!)


  25. #24

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    I don't get the dumb defensiveness here. I'm just reporting that I tried it, and it worked for me. I'm not suggesting it's the only way. or other ways are wrong or bad, or any of that. It's a thing you can try. Or not. It might work for you. Or not.

    I'm not sure why anyone's sense of self esteem should be tied to a picking technique, but apparently...


    Hey try it or don't!

  26. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonah
    Besides classical teacher will hardly help you with pick playing.
    True, but a good one would help with hand posture, and monitor any bad habits. Switching from Classcal to pick is no big deal at all, provided your Classical was well worked out. Plus the Classical is the only guitar method with solid and rigid rules that if you follow dillegently, you will get technically awesome. I love to teach Classical to beginners much more than pick, if a student have patience, of course. Right hand posture is the first step always.